PC Can we please stop tripple gating Things?

>Snip By OzHawkeye<

I already could craft a quality 1 steel tool. Found the schematic and have enough parts. Got 1 from a quest, another from a car, and trader had a 3rd one. That gave me all the parts I needed to, but I decided not to as I wanted to get more parts and craft a higher tier 1 instead. We are also only on day 10 or so.
Again since you don't seem to understand. It doesn't take 24 steel tool parts to craft a steel tool, it takes 24 parts to craft a PURPLE end game steel pickaxe. A quality 1 or 2 one takes a fraction of that and is far easier to make.
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I am already speced up to level 5 tools. So now actually putting points into my mining skill should make a worse miner? Dig that hole mate. I have already explained that I have found 4 traders and I visit them every three days when they restock. I have done over 60 trader quests. That still doesn't explain why only these items should be so hard to make compared to others.

Like I said. Your argument is you don't care if it is balanced so I am wrong for pointing it out. Why should these items have to endure three trials of RNG versus the one for the others. If you are talking about steel tool parts, you got crazy lucky three times in a row just to find the parts. Not counting the investment in steel smithing or finding the schematic.

 
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>Snip By OzHawkeye<

So what would your suggestion be? You find the steel schematic for tools and you can instantly crank out an infinite number of steel tools with no limits? That would be insanely OP. That would be like cranking out 10,000 M60's and passing them out to everyone on the server.

If your going to do that just tweak the recipes or you can make the parts craftable if you want an infinite supply.

Many people like how the end game items are hard to get, and that you have to go out and scavenge the parts to craft them and can't just sit there mass producing them. It gives an incentive to loot and explore.

 
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So what would your suggestion be? You find the steel schematic for tools and you can instantly crank out an infinite number of steel tools with no limits? That would be insanely OP.
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Which you can actually do!!! FFS man. Look at the differences. It is infinitely easier to craft an M60 than it is to craft explosive arrows or steel tools. I would say the M60 is far more useful in this game than either of those things.

 
Which you can actually do!!! FFS man. Look at the differences. It is infinitely easier to craft an M60 than it is to craft explosive arrows or steel tools. I would say the M60 is far more useful in this game than either of those things.
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That is the one thing I agree with. I think the m60 should have its own parts separate from the AK and that would solve that issue. Thanks for the reminder about that

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?129792-Create-new-parts-for-the-M60

 
dude what exactly is your porblem? folks have given you solutions to your problem but you refuse to accept them and instead find faults.

getting a crucible recipe isn't that difficult if you go to crack a boom tower or the large church. heck I'm at day 49 and I haven't found the m9 recipe at all. you don't me on here crying because I can't upgrade my tier 3 m9 to a much better version..same goes for my tier 3 steel knuckles i can't find enough steel knuckle parts to craft a better one but oh well such is random loot.

just spawn in the items, edit the xml files so you get more skill points per level or go out and loot PoIs, buy from traders. you have lots of options which others have listed but at this point you sound like a troll or some entitled kid whow wants things done right now.

 
You really need to put about a thousand points into intellect so you can even understand a conversation. Your entire rebuttal is "I don't use it, so it doesn't need to be balanced." When that fails you resort to insulting people like a child.


I am already speced up to level 5 tools. So now actually putting points into my mining skill should make a worse miner? Dig that hole mate. I have already explained that I have found 4 traders and I visit them every three days when they restock. I have done over 60 trader quests. That still doesn't explain why only these items should be so hard to make compared to others.

Like I said. Your argument is you don't care if it is balanced so I am wrong for pointing it out. Why should these items have to endure three trials of RNG versus the one for the others. If you are talking about steel tool parts, you got crazy lucky three times in a row just to find the parts. Not counting the investment in steel smithing or finding the schematic.
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It in no way makes you a worse miner, no idea where you got that idea from. It does mean if you want to make steel tools though it will take more steel parts to make the higher quality version.

Madmole has acknowledged that and I think they were going to look into letting you choose what tier to craft when you can craft multiple tiers of items. So if you can craft up to tier 5 and only have enough components to make a tier 1 you can craft the tier 1 or wait till you get more parts.

The point is though it takes the same ratio of parts to make steel tools as it does the m60, it all varies by the quality and the fact that the m60 probably should not be able to be made using AK parts which I agree with.

 
dude what exactly is your porblem? folks have given you solutions to your problem but you refuse to accept them and instead find faults.
getting a crucible recipe isn't that difficult if you go to crack a boom tower or the large church. heck I'm at day 49 and I haven't found the m9 recipe at all. you don't me on here crying because I can't upgrade my tier 3 m9 to a much better version..same goes for my tier 3 steel knuckles i can't find enough steel knuckle parts to craft a better one but oh well such is random loot.

just spawn in the items, edit the xml files so you get more skill points per level or go out and loot PoIs, buy from traders. you have lots of options which others have listed but at this point you sound like a troll or some entitled kid whow wants things done right now.
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No they have not given me solutions. They have speculated. That still doesn't fix the fact that the mentioned items are way harder to actually craft than any other item in the game and they aren't nearly as useful as most. How does that keep skipping off? It's not rocket science. These items are much harder to craft for absolutely no reason at all. So either every classes useful items should be as hard to craft as these or they should be as easy to craft as the other classes items. Let that sink in for a minute so you can understand the point of the original post. No one else here seems to.

 
No they have not given me solutions. They have speculated. That still doesn't fix the fact that the mentioned items are way harder to actually craft than any other item in the game and they aren't nearly as useful as most. How does that keep skipping off? It's not rocket science. These items are much harder to craft for absolutely no reason at all. So either every classes useful items should be as hard to craft as these or they should be as easy to craft as the other classes items. Let that sink in for a minute so you can understand the point of the original post. No one else here seems to.
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1. Buy steel

2. Harvest items with wrench for Steel

3. Do quests

4. Check cars

5. Check POI's

6. Invest in barter skills for better trader items

etc

 
1. Buy steel2. Harvest items with wrench for Steel

3. Do quests

4. Check cars

5. Check POI's

6. Invest in barter skills for better trader items

etc
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Those are not solutions to the problem of them being triple gated to begin with at all. They are just all the crap I have had to go through and still don't have the items I have already passed the RNG test for!

>Snip By OzHawkeye< This isn't about steel! I have the steel. No one should be able to craft AP ammo for their preferred class until they have found two schematics and can make steel. No one should be able to make an M60 until they find 8 M60 parts that are probably the rarest thing in the game and speced steel and found the schematic.

Like I said. The schematics are supposed to be reasons to keep looting. I found them and I am rewarded with nothing. There for, looting is not rewarding.

 
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from your original post you just seem to want the things right then and there.

guess what I have those same things but I can't make steel knuckles, I can't make my steel armor and lots of other things I can use because I haven't found said items for the parts to craft them.

you're only at day 31 and I'm at day 49. you're only a little more than half way to where I'm at yet are complaining like crazy because you can't craft the best items in bulk right at the moment being barely at the halfway point.

just change your game settings to loot at 200% and experience gains to 300% so you can get what you want faster.

like I said you were given solutions but refuse to accept them. everyone has gates behind stuff.

 
Just a note, I've had to go into this thread and do some fairly hefty clean up on it. Please keep it civil. It would be a shame if discussion had to be stifled for lack of civility.

 
Fantastic. You have no actual rebuttal so you resort to clowning around like a teenager. Sick burn bro. So now you are the cool kid and I am just a nerd for wanting the archer class to have the same balance as a gun user.
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Actually, I’m not a teenager, therefore I don’t expect everything to be handed to me right out of the gate. Steel stuff is meant to be wonderful. Therefore “working” and “waiting” for it make it worth it.

Having everything from the start can be boring for many people. Therefore the devs put throttles into the system.

I didn’t rebutt, since I don’t find “late-“ or “end-game” abilities onerous to unlock.

 
The real question is whether the issue is about the gating, or if it's just because it takes longer to get late-game/end-game items. (Which is most likely why they are gated the way they are to be honest.)

It basically comes down to get lucky with RNG looting, or take the time to spend the points.

If you're only at day 31, you shouldn't be near end-game, and having end-game level items doesn't make sense.

We come back around to the argument of being OP too early, and making the game boring. You basically want to have everything too soon.

 
Seems like the core of the complaint is balance of one weapon type compared to other weapon types. CoolJ is claiming that crafting top tier ammo for the top tier crossbow is not on par with crafting what you need for the top tier machine gun. Sounds like other discussions that have been going around comparing scrap turrets and other weapons. TFP wants an asymmetrical design for the five different builds and that is going to superficially look like some options are less fair than others.

So we have to play and analyze and decide if there really are imbalances or whether it is just a different play experience but still viable. Sounds like CoolJ thinks that it is unfairly balanced and perhaps not viable.

 
Seems like the core of the complaint is balance of one weapon type compared to other weapon types. CoolJ is claiming that crafting top tier ammo for the top tier crossbow is not on par with crafting what you need for the top tier machine gun. Sounds like other discussions that have been going around comparing scrap turrets and other weapons. TFP wants an asymmetrical design for the five different builds and that is going to superficially look like some options are less fair than others.
So we have to play and analyze and decide if there really are imbalances or whether it is just a different play experience but still viable. Sounds like CoolJ thinks that it is unfairly balanced and perhaps not viable.
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Well I do agree that it does seem unbalanced that you can craft M60's which are super rare from parts you get by scrapping AK's which are super common. It would be akin to scrapping iron tools to make steel tools. So I would say it makes sense to change M60's to scrap to a unique part.

Aside from that Steel tools are end game and last forevor. So IMO it should take work to get

 
Honestly the parts system is garbage. It makes sense in some ways, like guns where you are talking about bits of metal that have to be precision machined. But for hand tools like shovels, and weapons like a sledge hammer or a bow that isn't a compound? And the number of parts required getting higher and higher is just silly. If anything the parts when looted should have a fixed quality and that should represent the highest quality of item that can be put together using them. If you scrap the item to get the parts back, you get them at a QL lower.

 
The real question is whether the issue is about the gating, or if it's just because it takes longer to get late-game/end-game items. (Which is most likely why they are gated the way they are to be honest.)
It basically comes down to get lucky with RNG looting, or take the time to spend the points.

If you're only at day 31, you shouldn't be near end-game, and having end-game level items doesn't make sense.

We come back around to the argument of being OP too early, and making the game boring. You basically want to have everything too soon.
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I'm not trying to have anything too soon. There is no such thing as too soon with RNG. With this system, you have to assume never because you cannot rely on RNG.

It is really dumb that you can find a schematic that says, you can now do X and not be able to do X because it reqiures you to actually find another schematic. You cannot Spec into AP arrows. You have to find the schematic. The ingredients to make explosive arrows requires AP arrows.

It doesn't matter what level you think I should be. By making this RNG, TFP are saying they don't care what level I am when I find it. It is supposed to be the reason to actually give a crap about all the filler buildings and the terrible quests to begin with.

They keep trying to make this some kind of Fallout/Skyrim type deal while failing to actually follow the format for acquisition in those games. There is always a guaranteed way to acquire what you need in those games. Always. It maybe difficult or cost you time, but it insures that you can rely on your strategy. With this there is no strategy. RNG is all you get and they have layered it three layers deep for things without any reason at all. You are not going to convince me that steel tools or military armor or explosive arrows is more game changing than the motorcycle that I had on day 28 or the level 5 AK that I have with a freakin drum mag. Oh noes. I could give a whole server drum mags for their M60s and AKs... Oh the humanity.

I'm not even speced into MGs yet I have end game crap for that class that is better than my actual class stuff because of RNG. Yet I'm wrong because I actually think I should be able to use the items for my actual class.

 
It is really dumb that you can find a schematic that says, you can now do X and not be able to do X because it reqiures you to actually find another schematic. You cannot Spec into AP arrows. You have to find the schematic. The ingredients to make explosive arrows requires AP arrows.
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Again how is that dumb? Every schematic works that way. You can now make first aid bandages, but you haven't found yucca or the desert or yucca seeds.

You can make iron tools but you can't make a forge yet

You can make ammo but you can't make a forge yet, etc.

Yes Steel tools are harder but there are lots of ways to get the parts such as focusing on trader quests and doing their missions which often give them rewards, leveling your trader skills to get more choices for rewards, better items in secret stash, etc.

The m60 example you keep using does indeed seem to be disproportionate so hopefully TFP separate it into its own parts, but again your complaining that on Day 31 you haven't found enough parts to make every end game item. If it takes you to day 100 to get all the parts you need to make every end game item that isn't a bad thing.

 
Again how is that dumb? Every schematic works that way. You can now make first aid bandages, but you haven't found yucca or the desert or yucca seeds.
You can make iron tools but you can't make a forge yet

You can make ammo but you can't make a forge yet, etc.
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Demonstrably, not the same. You can spec into a forge with your very first point into the game. You cannot spec into AP arrows, you are at the mercy of RNG. I found a schematic that says I can now craft exploding arrows. ::Troll face:: The ingredients to make them require yet another schematic.

 
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