PC Bones extroadinarily difficult to farm

that's not what I said at all.
the problem is that non-damaging mods increase damage, like paint for example.
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Maybe zombies are allergic to color. ;)

The explanation from the FP is that the color occupies a slot and therefore also gets the damage bonus.

 
that's not what I said at all.
the problem is that non-damaging mods increase damage, like paint for example.
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Beyond satisfying your immersion, what purpose would removing the damage bonus to dye accomplish? It would just make dye worthless. It is at least now one of the few chase items in game currently. It fills gaps until you get better quality mods for all your tools and weapons.

What about other mods, removing the bonus damage for non-damage mods would effectively make them crap too. Why have a bunch of worthless crap in game?

This game is not a emulator of real life, its not even a simulator of real life.

 
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Beyond satisfying your immersion, what purpose would removing the damage bonus to dye accomplish? It would just make dye worthless. It is at least now one of the few chase items in game currently. It fills gaps until you get better quality mods for all your tools and weapons.
What about other mods, removing the bonus damage for non-damage mods would effectively make them crap too. Why have a bunch of worthless crap in game?

This game is not a emulator of real life, its not even a simulator of real life.
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Point taken, but make it so paint doesn't use up a precious mod slot (honestly, it really shouldn't anyway...) Only items that have actual value should use up mod slots imo... but all this is one reason why I dislike the current system. It made so much more sense that more quality = more damage. Keep the mod slots, but remove any non-damage mod from increasing damage. That doesn't make non-damage mods useless, there are plenty of useful non-damage mods like magazine increase, accuracy increase... personally I kinda wanna do away with even the damage increasing mods, while bringing back quality damage increase. I feel like mods should add new options only, not boring things like "increase damage". Yeah those are useful but not very interesting.

I guess my main complaint is that getting high quality weapons just aren't satisfying enough for me, especially in the early game. Oh well, I use a mod to fix that for me now, so it's whatever.

 
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Point taken, but make it so paint doesn't use up a precious mod slot (honestly, it really shouldn't anyway...) Only items that have actual value should use up mod slots imo... but all this is one reason why I dislike the current system. It made so much more sense that more quality = more damage. Keep the mod slots, but remove any non-damage mod from increasing damage. That doesn't make non-damage mods useless, there are plenty of useful non-damage mods like magazine increase, accuracy increase... personally I kinda wanna do away with even the damage increasing mods, while bringing back quality damage increase. I feel like mods should add new options only, not boring things like "increase damage". Yeah those are useful but not very interesting.
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There is only a couple of mods that would still be useful without the damage modifier. Increased magazine and rad remover. (maybe a couple more like scopes ect.) And those are only for firearm, but seriously? you want less damage potential on your firearms? o.O. Any mod increasing damage would be preferred on all tools and melee weapons. So ya taking the damage bonus off would make a bunch of them pretty worthless.

 
There is only a couple of mods that would still be useful without the damage modifier. Increased magazine and rad remover. (maybe a couple more like scopes ect.) And those are only for firearm, but seriously? you want less damage potential on your firearms? o.O. Any mod increasing damage would be preferred on all tools and melee weapons. So ya taking the damage bonus off would make a bunch of them pretty worthless.
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Weapons were more powerful in A16. So no, it would be more damage, not less, by removing damage increasing mods and restoring quality based damage. Yes there are some new perks in A17 that help with damage, but I still recall doing more damage in A16 overall. This especially seems apparent with tools. I remember being able to one hit destroy stone with an auger, now it can take several even with fully kitted Q6 auger. This way, mods can do their intended purpose... MOD the weapon not just add a flat damage multiplier which is boring... IMO

And if a mod is only useful if it increases damage then yea, I agree, it's a pretty worthless mod. I feel like a mod should be useful without damage, otherwise it shouldn't even be in the game...

 
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Weapons were more powerful in A16. So no, it would be more damage, not less, by removing damage increasing mods and restoring quality based damage. Yes there are some new perks in A17 that help with damage, but I still recall doing more damage in A16 overall. This especially seems apparent with tools. I remember being able to one hit destroy stone with an auger, now it can take several even with fully kitted Q6 auger. This way, mods can do their intended purpose... MOD the weapon not just add a flat damage multiplier which is boring... IMO
And if a mod is only useful if it increases damage then yea, I agree, it's a pretty worthless mod. I feel like a mod should be useful without damage, otherwise it shouldn't even be in the game...
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I am not taking into my consideration them changing quality/ damage modifier back. They have said already that the mod system is what will change damage. They arent gonna change that back. If you are suggesting removing the damage multipliers for mods based on an assumption that this will change, that is why we arent seeing eye to eye.

Kinda pointless to argue for a change to something that depends on them reverting a whole system first. Especially when there has been no indication they will ever change it.

 
Don't get me wrong, the new mod system is enjoyable, I wouldn't want them to remove it. It does add a lot more possibilities.

All I was saying is it would be nice if they made higher quality weapons do more damage like they did before. That's not overhauling the new system or changing it back to the way it was before. That's not "changing anything back", changing it back would mean removing mods entirely. Mods are here to stay, for sure, I am not debating that.

 
Don't get me wrong, the new mod system is enjoyable, I wouldn't want them to remove it. It does add a lot more possibilities.
All I was saying is it would be nice if they made higher quality weapons do more damage like they did before. That's not overhauling the new system or changing it back to the way it was before. That's not "changing anything back", changing it back would mean removing mods entirely. Mods are here to stay, for sure, I am not debating that.
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Mods, all mods, at least seem to increase damage. Try adding and removing a mod and note the weapon damage. It's buggy or badly designed as the total new damage isn't displayed outside the mod editor on the weapon. But pull mods off and slap them back on. Even a dye adds damage. Or at least that's how it seems. Now if it actually adds damage in play... I have no idea... But the damage stat gets tweaked on the weapon as you add/remove mods

 
Having damage hooked into mod slots being filled makes the guns variable in damage value even when they are the same quality. It gives more variation. If all Tier 6 shotguns do exact same damage the moment you get them because the damage is based on color of the quality instead of number of mod slots filled then there is less incentive to go and find the mods.

It goes back to the assembling a weapon in A16. In A16 you couldn't even use the weapon until all the pieces were present in the gun. You could have 3 out 5 parts and in your backpack the icon would look like a gun but it wouldn't fire. The difference here is that you can use the weapon at varying degrees of power the entire time. If they they had made guns so they couldn't fire at all until all the slots were filled then it would have felt closer to A16 and purple guns would've always seemed more powerful than blue than green than yellow than orange than brown.

So would it be better that way? Make the gun useless until every slot it has is filled?

 
Having damage hooked into mod slots being filled makes the guns variable in damage value even when they are the same quality. It gives more variation. If all Tier 6 shotguns do exact same damage the moment you get them because the damage is based on color of the quality instead of number of mod slots filled then there is less incentive to go and find the mods.
It goes back to the assembling a weapon in A16. In A16 you couldn't even use the weapon until all the pieces were present in the gun. You could have 3 out 5 parts and in your backpack the icon would look like a gun but it wouldn't fire. The difference here is that you can use the weapon at varying degrees of power the entire time. If they they had made guns so they couldn't fire at all until all the slots were filled then it would have felt closer to A16 and purple guns would've always seemed more powerful than blue than green than yellow than orange than brown.

So would it be better that way? Make the gun useless until every slot it has is filled?
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I think my stance must still be confusing? Not sure why? Let me try again I suppose...

I'm not saying make it so the gun can not be used without all the parts, not sure where I said that?

Perhaps where we don't see eye to eye is in the comment "there is no incentive to find mods if damage is only based upon color of the gun". Then, we need better mods instead of superfluous ones to change that perspective. Currently, many mods are not as useful as they could be. For example: I was very under-whelmed by the full-auto mod for the pistol, the fire rate was very low. Sure, we have an SMG for a rapid-fire 9mm weapon, but even still, machine pistols shoot VERY fast in real life. That said, as you said before, many more mods are in work... and it remains to be seen what they will all do. so, it's quite possible that in later updates most of my comments will become a moot point. The magazine increase mod, the scope mods, rad mods are examples of useful mods regardless of damage increases. Another example of an underwhelming mod - semi-auto trigger. this should let you switch between semi-auto and full-auto, not hamstring you into semi-auto only. same with the full-auto mod for that matter. I really have not found either of these to be useful for this reason.

TO be fair...


perhaps my stances my change if/when

- more, better mods are added (I note there is a "hunter" mod that increases damage to humans. does this mean we are gonna get an increased damage to zombies mod?)

and/or

- more damage increase with mods (I don't have the number off the top of my head, but I wanna say gun damage only increases 20-30% with full kitted Q6 vs. Q1? This is just so underwhelming to me. Q6 even fully kitted is barely better.) Perhaps this is in preparation for mods like Hunter, zombie killer mods?

fact is that Q6 stuff in this game doesn't have the "OMG awesome" feeling that Q600 items did before. but hopefully that'll change when they add more and better mods. (I believe Q600 items had something like 100% more damage compared to Q100). Contrast this to the 30% we have now, this is why I am underwhelmed. part of it too is that it's just too easy to get Q6 guns since you can just make them and on top of that they are easier to find now too. It was difficult to find Q600 in the past, yes, but because they were so good, it was well balanced, and satisfying.

So, we'll have to wait and see what they add with new mods, I suppose. Roland, you're right, it is not finished and there will be many more mods. I can only comment on what I see, but I do have some faith they will make some more cool mods, that should hopefully mitigate some of my concerns.

 
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Having damage hooked into mod slots being filled makes the guns variable in damage value even when they are the same quality. It gives more variation. If all Tier 6 shotguns do exact same damage the moment you get them because the damage is based on color of the quality instead of number of mod slots filled then there is less incentive to go and find the mods.
It goes back to the assembling a weapon in A16. In A16 you couldn't even use the weapon until all the pieces were present in the gun. You could have 3 out 5 parts and in your backpack the icon would look like a gun but it wouldn't fire. The difference here is that you can use the weapon at varying degrees of power the entire time. If they they had made guns so they couldn't fire at all until all the slots were filled then it would have felt closer to A16 and purple guns would've always seemed more powerful than blue than green than yellow than orange than brown.

So would it be better that way? Make the gun useless until every slot it has is filled?
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Quality really needs to relate to item damage.

I would say make higher quality weapons \ items do more damage than lower quality ones and then remove any damage related mods. There's still tons of other things mods can do such as adding new abilities (fire, stun, knockback, prone, spread, refire, auto, splash dmg, double shot, penetration, door breach, etc) and you give an actual reason to be excited about finding higher quality weapons other than mod slots and durability.

EDIT: Also, remove the ability to craft guns while you're at it. Bring back the excitement of looting.

 
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Quality really needs to relate to item damage.
I would say make higher quality weapons \ items do more damage than lower quality ones and then remove any damage related mods. There's still tons of other things mods can do such as adding new abilities (fire, stun, knockback, prone, spread, refire, auto, splash dmg, double shot, penetration, door breach, etc) and you give an actual reason to be excited about finding higher quality weapons other than mod slots and durability.

EDIT: Also, remove the ability to craft guns while you're at it. Bring back the excitement of looting.
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I know a mod that would induce excitement for more than just damage... although it's probably a wee bit OP LOL.... add an x-ray shooting ability to marksman rifle... movie "Eraser" style LOL... or like the Far Sight in Perfect Dark

My point is, you can add plenty of excitement without just adding raw damage through some creativity. As you have noted as well.

Who doesn't want to be this guy???

eraser.jpg

ok ok... maybe I'll have to hold off until TFP decides to make a sci-fi themed survival game :(

Which btw... I'd buy in a heartbeat... hint hint :p

 
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And are you playing solo and have all the bones to yourself? Thought so.
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no, i play on a pvp server with 10-20 other ppl on. glue has never been an issue, even in the first couple of days, hit a spot with plenty of garbage bags and you're laughing. there is no problem with glue, just gotta take the time to gather it is all.

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i have huntsman at level 1 at this point, and i literally perked it around day 90-95. animals arent the only place to get glue/bones/duct tape ya know. im glad vultures dont drop bones, cuz bones from those things id consider tiny so it just wouldnt seem right. i would like to see bones coming out of the body bags tho. there isnt a shortage of bones, u just gotta take a little time to search for it.

 
i never had an issue with bones because the trader sells duct tape in spades (17.1) - and you're only needing bones to make glue which you only use for duct tape right? i guess trader is getting nerfed in 17.2 so not sure if its still true. however duct tape really isnt used for anything useful to me. i've swithced to pretty much entirely meelee at this point, and get my mods via questing (reset the POI, loot it, quest again to reset, hit the POIs over and over), so bones are pretty pointless. i guess they can be used to make sham chowder, but other than that dont really need it.

 
I mentioned it to Madmole and he’s considering changing the femur into “bone fragments” so that you can get them from all biological sources including birds and snakes. This would also allow them to increase the number so that the huntsman perk can work better with larger numbers.

IF this happens, hopefully nobody considers the femur to be one of those critical defining key elements of the game that will spawn more A17 salt.

 
i never had an issue with bones because the trader sells duct tape in spades (17.1) - and you're only needing bones to make glue which you only use for duct tape right?
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No. There are also recipes that require glue. A recipe is e.g. the production of paper.

In Alpha 16 a large part of the glue went into the production of paper to make shotgun ammunition to fill my shotgun turrets in the horde base. A base in this form cannot be operated economically in Alpha 17.

 
I think my stance must still be confusing? Not sure why? Let me try again I suppose...
I'm not saying make it so the gun can not be used without all the parts, not sure where I said that?

Perhaps where we don't see eye to eye is in the comment "there is no incentive to find mods if damage is only based upon color of the gun". Then, we need better mods instead of superfluous ones to change that perspective. Currently, many mods are not as useful as they could be. For example: I was very under-whelmed by the full-auto mod for the pistol, the fire rate was very low. Sure, we have an SMG for a rapid-fire 9mm weapon, but even still, machine pistols shoot VERY fast in real life. That said, as you said before, many more mods are in work... and it remains to be seen what they will all do. so, it's quite possible that in later updates most of my comments will become a moot point. The magazine increase mod, the scope mods, rad mods are examples of useful mods regardless of damage increases. Another example of an underwhelming mod - semi-auto trigger. this should let you switch between semi-auto and full-auto, not hamstring you into semi-auto only. same with the full-auto mod for that matter. I really have not found either of these to be useful for this reason.

TO be fair...


perhaps my stances my change if/when

- more, better mods are added (I note there is a "hunter" mod that increases damage to humans. does this mean we are gonna get an increased damage to zombies mod?)

and/or

- more damage increase with mods (I don't have the number off the top of my head, but I wanna say gun damage only increases 20-30% with full kitted Q6 vs. Q1? This is just so underwhelming to me. Q6 even fully kitted is barely better.) Perhaps this is in preparation for mods like Hunter, zombie killer mods?

fact is that Q6 stuff in this game doesn't have the "OMG awesome" feeling that Q600 items did before. but hopefully that'll change when they add more and better mods. (I believe Q600 items had something like 100% more damage compared to Q100). Contrast this to the 30% we have now, this is why I am underwhelmed. part of it too is that it's just too easy to get Q6 guns since you can just make them and on top of that they are easier to find now too. It was difficult to find Q600 in the past, yes, but because they were so good, it was well balanced, and satisfying.

So, we'll have to wait and see what they add with new mods, I suppose. Roland, you're right, it is not finished and there will be many more mods. I can only comment on what I see, but I do have some faith they will make some more cool mods, that should hopefully mitigate some of my concerns.
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Q6 guns do more damage than any lesser gun already. More mod slots = more damage when filled.

 
i never had an issue with bones because the trader sells duct tape in spades (17.1) - and you're only needing bones to make glue which you only use for duct tape right? i guess trader is getting nerfed in 17.2 so not sure if its still true. however duct tape really isnt used for anything useful to me. i've swithced to pretty much entirely meelee at this point, and get my mods via questing (reset the POI, loot it, quest again to reset, hit the POIs over and over), so bones are pretty pointless. i guess they can be used to make sham chowder, but other than that dont really need it.
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You like melee, cool. Some people like flaming arrows, or xbolts, or shotgun shells. Some people like selling craftables to traders. Some people like mining for days to build mega structures (repair kits)

There is for sure enough glue and duct tape for your playstyle (whacking zombies and abusing quests) But there is a lot of other playstyles out there besides yours that are on a constant hunt for more duct tape.

 
Having damage hooked into mod slots being filled makes the guns variable in damage value even when they are the same quality. It gives more variation. If all Tier 6 shotguns do exact same damage the moment you get them because the damage is based on color of the quality instead of number of mod slots filled then there is less incentive to go and find the mods.
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All tier 6 Shotguns do do exactly the same damage because by the time you find (lol) or craft one, you will have more mods than you know what to do with. Or put another way, all tier 6 Shotguns are born with 5 mods. Why else would you ever craft a tier 6 if you didn't have enough mods to fill it?

So would it be better that way? Make the gun useless until every slot it has is filled?
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Hell no, but being able to further upgrade the gun after the 5 slots were filled (such as if weapon parts were still in the game) would be far superior as then we would have an actual end-game (searching for the parts) instead of.....well, nothing at all, maxed out on day 30 b*llsh*t. It is pretty boring and sad to think that the moment I can craft a tier 6 Shotgun, bam! I now have the best Shotgun in the game I could ever have. How dull is that?? It's even more sad to know that the next playthrough I do, I will also have that best Shotgun in the game at exactly the same level I got it last run. Boooooooring.

I note there is a "hunter" mod that increases damage to humans. does this mean we are gonna get an increased damage to zombies mod?
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Holy Bullets, or Righteous Ammo or whatever it's called

i never had an issue with bones because the trader sells duct tape in spades (17.1) - and you're only needing bones to make glue which you only use for duct tape right?
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Er no. 90% of your bones will likely go to making paper (for Shotgun ammo). It's all about the paper; Duct Tape is not an issue.

 
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I mentioned it to Madmole and he’s considering changing the femur into “bone fragments” so that you can get them from all biological sources including birds and snakes. This would also allow them to increase the number so that the huntsman perk can work better with larger numbers.
IF this happens, hopefully nobody considers the femur to be one of those critical defining key elements of the game that will spawn more A17 salt.
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The femur "is" a critically defining key element of the game though. The entire time I've played the game it's been that same bone, and to change it now would simply be to invalidate my entire play experience!

 
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