PC Attributes

[Scyris]

Here's a "the thing" about the perks. You need them all for a proper game. So the one that "wins" for you is only the one that boosts the stats for the aspect that you like most. For me, that would be shooting pistols, with melee combat in 2nd place.

I like fighting zombies too, but if they weapons kill decently fast without perks, I doubt i'll waste points in the melee/ranged perks. I am still annoyed that a17 doesn't seem to have any headshot multiplier without a perk from what I understand from the video, this may change though. At least I hope it does, because otherwise it'll be super easy killing things if all you need is bodyshots.

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I guess without intellect tree you can't craft anything so: Intellect, the gate tree

Yeah, I kinda wish they'd do something else with the intel tree and make alot of those perk locked things into books. Kinda like A16.

 

[Scyris]

exp boost was scraped again after some people brought arguments against it. You want to reconsider? :smile-new:

I've never been a fan of exp boosts in certan types of games, 7dtd being one of them, faster you level, faster you unlock things but also all the much faster you get bored. in A16 I am bored by lv 70 or so, as I have steel, and can't really find stuff in the world better than I can make, so I tend to quit at that point.

A base build would have you probally maxing all the base attributes, I kinda wish they raised by doing though. As if its just points, I can see many people going high into Intel and fortitude asap, as Int is the crafting stuff, and Fortitude has way to many useful things for survival. I'd personally move the one for drugs to intel. Its like the healing being in int makes sense: Would you want a smart doctor? or a stupid doctor to work on your wounds? The answer should be pretty simple. The Regen passive though is a great fit for fortitude.

 

[Poojam]

This whole perk thing reminds me of World of Warcraft, and not in a good way.

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc

 

[Sedlina]

You mentioned agi being the most useless stat, because one doesnt get hit.
I ask you now: ARE you certainly sure youre not gonna get caught offguard?

Z's will now be less buggy and more fluid. They will attack while walking and be intelligent regarding focuspriority so no nerdpoling 2 b safe

If I get caught off guard I ask myself the question

Do I want to have the means to fight my way out of the situation thanks to: Int (tech) Per (firepower) Str (melee dmg)

or would I rather have achance to ''maybe'' run away Agi (more stamina/less stamina drain) Whereas the maybe should be a capitol maybe imo Because running away may not always be an option. (location, difficulty settings)

in such a worst case sceanrio even End would be better to live through the situation by simply allowing me to tank more dmg.

As for the attack while walking. We've seen that much in madmole's videos. A17 Day 1 youtube clip. You can still go in for melee hits without getting hit. (which was quite ironic considering that he just backpedal_whack a mole killed a zombies before he talks about 'backpedal whack a mole isn't going to work anymore you have to take a hit to land a hit')

Not to mention that bows and xbows will become even more dominant now with reclaimable arrows/bolts and the cut on one of the major brass sources of the game

 

[Katitof]

I'll stick to intellect, because tools.

I'm going to play with 1 mining crazy brute and one warmonger, so I'll have combat and gathering covered for me :whip:

 

[Hellevik]

i am missing the time we didnt have perk. have to play for days/weeks before we can get some good loot is terrible. remember the good feeling of finding a good piceaxe on day 1. that time is over now on endgame we are swimming in 600 stuff.

It is so hard barrier to join a new server because we need to play a week before we are "decent" even getting a 600picaxe from a friend and it is terrible if you havent play'd alot and used perk.

now just use a perk and harvest more corn on farming. omg that is terrible gameplay. missing already looking for a human turd.

hope it is possible to mod out and use book recipe.

 

[ricp]

In regard to "which attribute wins", imo... none of them. Removing the ability to progress naturally through the game and replacing it by a rather turgid and uninspiring skill purchasing model is possibly one of the least exciting things TFP have done with this game.

I honestly thought we had hit a bit of a sweet spot in A16 with a mix of progression and skill purchasing, so I'm sad to see it take what is in my opinion a retrograde step. It seems almost like the skill "tree" has been thrown in at the last minute because, "you know we have to have something and it can't be the same as before".

Now, before the fanbois jump on me, the caveat here is that it's the TFPs game. They've designed it from the bottom up, they've dedicated the last few years to it's development (not without it's rewards, of course) and so if anyone is to be the arbiter of whether it should be purchasing or progression it has to be them. I may not like it, but it's not up to me to like it or not, I am pretty much an irrelevance in this decision. I just hope that it doesn't turn out to be as dull as dishwater as Joel's videos have made it look.

With all that said and done the "winner" is easily Strength (then Agility). Purely on the basis that you spend a lot more time deliberating on your early game. Later games tend to look after themselves. Make the wrong choice early on and those coveted points could be wasted. For example (and I realise it's not a like for like analogy) in A16 you wouldn't start piling points into purchasing the workbench when you don't need it or don't have the availability of the component parts to build it. Those hard earned points would be far better splashed out on weapons or tool smithing. The same will go for A17. It's all fine and well wishing to get better bartering but truth is, if you can't run, jump and hide or hit like a mule then you won't be reaching any trader to barter.

TL;DR?

Strength, but with reservations that purchase > progression is not (imo) the right way to go.

 

[Crater Creator]

Intelligence is the most important one ...
* Physician because you can not make first aid bandages and plaster casts. So playing with a broken bone is a dead sentence without casts.

I don’t think that’s right. There are bandages, and first aid bandages. I assume casts are the corresponding upgraded versions of splints. They likely wouldn’t add art for casts just to replace splints. So my impression from the video was that a perk will let you craft better healing items, but the primitive low-tech option will always be craftable. It’s like he described cooking: anyone can eat a can of beans to avoid starving, but a perk allows for crafting higher quality items.

Fortitude will be pretty high up for me, especally the Healing factor perk, if I understand it, it heals damaged hp (when the bar goes black in the videos) over time that normally you need first aid kits etc to heal. Might need some balance thou as 1.25 hp/s regen seems a bit high when max health is 200.

I can’t check the video right now, but I thought it was measured per minute rather than per second.

 

[meganoth]

I am still annoyed that a17 doesn't seem to have any headshot multiplier without a perk from what I understand from the video, this may change though. At least I hope it does, because otherwise it'll be super easy killing things if all you need is bodyshots.

It already changed shortly after the video, there is a base headshot multiplier of 1.5 as far as I remember.

 

[Kattla]

Where is the "i don't want to watch 3 hours of madmole videos to attempt to understand this overly complicated system" button?

X marks that button in the upper right corner of this window.

 

[Scyris]

In regard to "which attribute wins", imo... none of them. Removing the ability to progress naturally through the game and replacing it by a rather turgid and uninspiring skill purchasing model is possibly one of the least exciting things TFP have done with this game.
I honestly thought we had hit a bit of a sweet spot in A16 with a mix of progression and skill purchasing, so I'm sad to see it take what is in my opinion a retrograde step. It seems almost like the skill "tree" has been thrown in at the last minute because, "you know we have to have something and it can't be the same as before".

Now, before the fanbois jump on me, the caveat here is that it's the TFPs game. They've designed it from the bottom up, they've dedicated the last few years to it's development (not without it's rewards, of course) and so if anyone is to be the arbiter of whether it should be purchasing or progression it has to be them. I may not like it, but it's not up to me to like it or not, I am pretty much an irrelevance in this decision. I just hope that it doesn't turn out to be as dull as dishwater as Joel's videos have made it look.

With all that said and done the "winner" is easily Strength (then Agility). Purely on the basis that you spend a lot more time deliberating on your early game. Later games tend to look after themselves. Make the wrong choice early on and those coveted points could be wasted. For example (and I realise it's not a like for like analogy) in A16 you wouldn't start piling points into purchasing the workbench when you don't need it or don't have the availability of the component parts to build it. Those hard earned points would be far better splashed out on weapons or tool smithing. The same will go for A17. It's all fine and well wishing to get better bartering but truth is, if you can't run, jump and hide or hit like a mule then you won't be reaching any trader to barter.

TL;DR?

Strength, but with reservations that purchase > progression is not (imo) the right way to go.

I kinda agree, I sort of remember them saying that A17 was supposed to raise the attributes by doing, like to raise str you have to melee stuff or bust blocks, Then it turns into some boring just pop a point in junk. I liked having to raise gun skill, blunt skill, blades skill etc, I hope those are still in there somewhere. If they aren't its just going to be another Ark survival evolved, which has rather poor progression because all you do is get exp then spent stat/perk points. The perk system also reminds me alot of fallout 4 as well. I'll have to see it in action to really judge, but I don't like the idea that you just spend perk points to learn everything.

 

[DarlingCows]

I kinda agree, I sort of remember them saying that A17 was supposed to raise the attributes by doing, like to raise str you have to melee stuff or bust blocks, Then it turns into some boring just pop a point in junk. I liked having to raise gun skill, blunt skill, blades skill etc, I hope those are still in there somewhere. If they aren't its just going to be another Ark survival evolved, which has rather poor progression because all you do is get exp then spent stat/perk points. The perk system also reminds me alot of fallout 4 as well. I'll have to see it in action to really judge, but I don't like the idea that you just spend perk points to learn everything.

I’m not sure how any of the A17 skills are related to ark. I am absolutely all for the A17 skills, it makes the game more interesting and combines borderlands skill tree with 7 days to die. That makes 7 days stand out compared to other survival craft games. In my opinion A16 skills didn’t really make any impressions on me. A17 skill, even though I haven’t tried them are making really hyped for the release.

 

[ricp]

I’m not sure how any of the A17 skills are related to ark. I am absolutely all for the A17 skills, it makes the game more interesting and combines borderlands skill tree with 7 days to die. That makes 7 days stand out compared to other survival craft games. In my opinion A16 skills didn’t really make any impressions on me. A17 skill, even though I haven’t tried them are making really hyped for the release.

I don't think I've fundamentally disagreed with anyone on here until now. You are totally entitled to your opinion, and of course TFP are totally entitled to develop their game in the manner they see best, but I cannot for one minute relate to your dismissal of the current A16 progression/purchase mix of skills while at the same time lauding the introduction of an entirely linear and uninspired purchase only model.

I mean I could perhaps agree that we should wait and see how it all pans out, but to somehow claim the new skill purchasing is "interesting" is, honestly, very weird. It smacks of time constraint and lack of resources, imo, not in any way "interesting".

My underlying thoughts though are, if A17 is in any way similar to A16 in the modding, the stupid skill purchasing model will be thrown out and a return to the A16 mix of both will be heralded by many as the most sensible way of doing things. All the while vanilla will by hampered by one of the least exciting additions to the 7DtD franchise yet.

 

[RestInPieces]

My 2 cents.

-Well, TFP may in the future consider separating actions into groups, each group slowly raising one (or more with a weighted factor) of the attributes. They must find a solution so that they are raised intuitively though, like diminishing returns or anything else they deem better.

-Also recipe perks should not be tied (at least not only) to leveling imo. They could be tied to exploration and POIs and attributes can still play a role whether the knowledge of these items can be acquired (like I mention in my recent thread).

-As for survival perks that seem to nullify a part of the survival gameplay, they need to be toned down, only alleviating penalties that currently don't exist as they should imo, so that they are still worth getting.

-And finally gameplay perks shouldn't enable action/fps-related gameplay but instead support/improve it. For example, headshot dmg multiplier should still be inherent and perks should only improve it and preferably in more interesting ways than just "more damage", like some of the other already existing perks.

 

[meganoth]

For example, headshot dmg multiplier should stil be inherent ....

Oh man, we need a FAQ. Base headshot multiplier of 1.5 was added by madmole again shortly after his video.

 

[RestInPieces]

Oh man, we need a FAQ. Base headshot multiplier of 1.5 was added by madmole again shortly after his video.

Eh, can't keep track of that chaotic dev thread. Seems they immediately listened to feedback on this one, nice!

 

[Scyris]

Eh, can't keep track of that chaotic dev thread. Seems they immediately listened to feedback on this one, nice!

I'm glad they did, Was hoping for a 2.0 base headshot mult, but I'll take 1.5x insted of no headshot base mult.

 

[DarlingCows]

I don't think I've fundamentally disagreed with anyone on here until now. You are totally entitled to your opinion, and of course TFP are totally entitled to develop their game in the manner they see best, but I cannot for one minute relate to your dismissal of the current A16 progression/purchase mix of skills while at the same time lauding the introduction of an entirely linear and uninspired purchase only model.
I mean I could perhaps agree that we should wait and see how it all pans out, but to somehow claim the new skill purchasing is "interesting" is, honestly, very weird. It smacks of time constraint and lack of resources, imo, not in any way "interesting".

My underlying thoughts though are, if A17 is in any way similar to A16 in the modding, the stupid skill purchasing model will be thrown out and a return to the A16 mix of both will be heralded by many as the most sensible way of doing things. All the while vanilla will by hampered by one of the least exciting additions to the 7DtD franchise yet.

For me games that change gameplay with new skills makes the game more interesting A16 skills didn’t do that for me, it became mindless sacking of zombies, which is fun but at some point becomes uninteresting. A17 perks change gameplay which makes them better in my opinion. Plus I like the cleaner one point per level and one per upgrade.

 

[ricp]

For me games that change gameplay with new skills makes the game more interesting A16 skills didn’t do that for me, it became mindless sacking of zombies, which is fun but at some point becomes uninteresting. A17 perks change gameplay which makes them better in my opinion. Plus I like the cleaner one point per level and one per upgrade.

As I say you are totally entitled to your opinion, and obviously we will all need to wait until A17 drops to see how it affects the game, but the skills aren't changing, they are the same skills (or pretty much the same) the only difference is how to get them.

What's more the skill "tree" as it is, is entirely lacking in any level of inspiration. From Joel's videos (and granted he did say that a lot were placeholders) it seems that it's just a dull incremental. 1 point = 10% better, 2 points = 30% better, etc, etc. The system seems rushed, not thought out and in general not as conducive to immersive gameplay as the A16 skills are. I'm not saying A16 is perfect, far from it, but the A17 skill acquisition looks like a retrograde step.

Don't get me wrong I don't want to go back to A15's spam crafting (where each new object crafted will increase in quality) which lead to people crafting axe after axe to fill up the night. However on the flip side it makes no sense to gain points from doing something (say construction crafting) only for those points to be spent on, for example, better shooting accuracy.

As with all of my posts on the dev of 7DtD, I fully accept that my opinion is only one of many and has no weight. TFP will develop the game as they see fit - and rightly too.

 

[Manchild]

All we need is luck and charisma.

S.P.E.I.A.