PC Attributes

[Ladarian]

You are making a claim that it would "destroy building"

Pretty sure they mean a different 'weight based' system would ruin building because you'd be carrying one concrete block at a time over to build your house.

 

[OzHawkeye]

Look, of course I don't want to ruin the game in any way, however encumbrance has already been introduced for A17 you are just going to have to live with that. You are making a claim that it would "destroy building", that really is a level of melodrama that isn't needed, especially when absolutely no details were put forward for it. You could claim in game gravity "destroys building" and I'm talking metaphorically here, because literally of course gravity destroys buildings!, as it stops you placing block akin to Minecraft in creative mode. I don't see you posting on the forums to remove gravity.
What if the idea was properly fleshed out? What if there was an introduction of a wheelbarrow or carts for shifting large loads? Or you had to build pulleys to haul stone or iron from mines to ground level, or scaffolding around buildings to bring materials to the roof. You'd still be achieving exactly what you did before, it's just more complex, more in depth and I would wager adds considerably more the experience.

It's the complexity, the added depth, that makes games good, not pandering to the lowest common denominator purely because "it's easier that way".

1 cubic meter of reinforced concrete weighs, more or less, one metric tonne.

How many of those do you think someone could - in real life - carry around? Indeed, what FRACTION of a SINGLE block do you think you could reasonably carry?

I don't have an issue with the game introducing some degree of encumbrance mechanics. The point I was making, and I stand by, is that any REALISTIC encumbrance system would destroy the games "fun factor".

You also, in your reply to Luckystar, made the same error they did - assuming your wants matched those of the "vast, vast, majority" of players.

In all my comments, I speak only for myself, and for myself, realism is not something I at all look for in a GAME. ;-)

 

[RestInPieces]

Ugh! Realism? Really? You're going there?
Game play rules all.

Encumbrance and inventories in general in a game like this will never be realistic because ....

... and this the most important part....

....players don't WANT it to be realistic. It's not fun.

If the game is balanced and provides a fun challenge then so what if it's not realistic.

Players don't seem to care that much.

- Zombies aren't real.

- There's not really an apocalypse.

- There isn't really a Madmole [he's clearly CGI ....duh.]

Anyway.... not to take this too seriously but... not really sure realism needs to be in this conversation.

Stones and feathers aren't going to weigh what they do irl and that's that.

Couldn't agree more.
Any even remotely realistic encumbrance system would destroy building.

Gameplay > Realism - every time.

Yup.
Completely agree!

Yikes.... try to imagine building in 7DTD with the real weight of concrete and rebar.

We'd all be huddling underground till day 80 just trying to build a shack up top.

... and because the builder part of the game absolutely needs inventory to ignore realistic encumbrance.

realism is not something I at all look for in a GAME. ;-)

"Fun"? What does that even mean. Can you tell where it "stems from"? And real != realistic.

Zombies not being real is completely irrelevant to what people call realistic in a game.

Realism is according to the game's own rules, physics, theme, lore - doesn't matter if some things are similar with real life - real life has absolutely nothing to do with it. It just happens that the game has physics almost identical to real life, gravity, materials etc, even a structural integrity system.

One of the basic principles of game developing and world building is believability. You can make anything you like, but it has to be believable inside its concept - even games like FF need to have this. Again, it is absolutely irrelevant with real life - it is silly to draw that conclusion. And that believability helps with "fun", which is a lot of things. Some people enjoy excessive realism, others don't. 7DTD is a game with excessive realism elements (needs, diseases, injuries, structural integrity, crafting etc etc) - asking for a realistic inventory system is over the top?

I don't think anyone ever said anything about sacrificing/ruining gameplay aspects or "fun" for realism, so what's with these "enlightened realization" posts about how remotely realistic inventory will stop us from being able to build? If you can't fathom achieving both, that's just that.

1 cubic meter of reinforced concrete weighs, more or less, one metric tonne.

How many of those do you think someone could - in real life - carry around? Indeed, what FRACTION of a SINGLE block do you think you could reasonably carry?

So anything remotely realistic has to abide by the rules of real life at 100%? Where did that come from, especially since any other remotely "realistic" things in the game don't? Besides the above, about realistic not having anything to do with real life, you are pushing an argument against something that was never said or implied by anyone.

 

[OzHawkeye]

RestInPieces,

Not at all, I've merely observed that a realistic encumbrance system wouldn't be fun for me.

I honestly don't know how that can be argued with.

I'm not claiming it represents anyone else's opinion (let alone some supposed majority opinion), nor am I arguing that some half-measure of realism isn't fun (indeed, I've specifically said that I have no issues with some sort of encumbrance mechanic).

What I personally find to completely un-fun is inventory management. It bores me to tears. So, were this game to have a realistic encumbrance system, and by that I mean something that more or less closely took account of real life weights, it would be very un-fun for me.

Now, if the Pimps go down that road (I don't personally think they will), but if they did, then I'd mod it out. This is the ultimate brilliance in the Pimps development of this game, over succeeding Alpha's (particularly from Alpha 10 onward), they've made it easily moddable.

As for the meta-argument over realism, I've stated my opinion as it applies to me, namely, that I don't care one whit for realism, if it comes at the sacrifice of game play. I've had that opinion ever since I started gaming some 40 years ago now, back when games couldn't even begin to be even remotely realistic, and it's something I believe holds (for me) just as true today as it did back then.

 

[RestInPieces]

RestInPieces,
Not at all, I've merely observed that a realistic encumbrance system wouldn't be fun for me.

I honestly don't know how that can be argued with.

I'm not claiming it represents anyone else's opinion (let alone some supposed majority opinion), nor am I arguing that some half-measure of realism isn't fun (indeed, I've specifically said that I have no issues with some sort of encumbrance mechanic).

What I personally find to completely un-fun is inventory management. It bores me to tears. So, were this game to have a realistic encumbrance system, and by that I mean something that more or less closely took account of real life weights, it would be very un-fun for me.

Now, if the Pimps go down that road (I don't personally think they will), but if they did, then I'd mod it out. This is the ultimate brilliance in the Pimps development of this game, over succeeding Alpha's (particularly from Alpha 10 onward), they've made it easily moddable.

As for the meta-argument over realism, I've stated my opinion as it applies to me, namely, that I don't care one whit for realism, if it comes at the sacrifice of game play. I've had that opinion ever since I started gaming some 40 years ago now, back when games couldn't even begin to be even remotely realistic, and it's something I believe holds (for me) just as true today as it did back then.

It would be absurd to have real life weights but there could still be a slight analogy that wouldn't affect building at all. I don't enjoy inventory management either (don't think many do), but I do enjoy choosing what to loot and not looting everything blindly like an automated bot. Inventory being huge in this game is the main reason of time spent in inventory sorting when having to empty it out/find items you want to use, at least for me. A smaller invetory or restrictions would require more planning - not necessarily more inventory management. Anyhow I particularly enjoyed NEO-Scavenger's inventory system - didn't use weight, but space and containers.

Of course gameplay shouldn't be sacrificed for realism. Realism should enrich gameplay instead. Many examples in this game of this happening already.

 

[ParadiseLostUK]

So should we have lasers, spaceships, aliens and teleporting? Maybe all zombies should fly, perhaps we should dispense with gravity? All these things are stupid ideas in relation to 7DtD because it's not realistic. You seem to show complete disdain for the concept yet the devs go to great lengths to create realism.
It's not a case of "me going there", it's a case of everyone going there because it's part of the game. It's always been part of the game and you are a bit late to the party to rail against it now.

.

So how many 1 metre cubes of wet concrete should we be able to carry without actually becoming part man, part concrete?