PC Attention! Block Damage.

Merida

Merida

New member
Thank you Pimps for your continuing efforts in developing this game. I know this is still WIP and a lot of balancing has to be addressed which brings me to block damage.

I just play test. So opinions will vary. This is my take.

Block damage has to be seriously relooked. I remember earlier alpha's where you could manage a first horde night shack made of some upgraded wood and you could survive. Gradually upgrading to better quality as time went on. Repairing was part of the game but never seemed like a chore since base damage was never beyond repair. Building was fun.

Block strength itself not the issue. It's our own block damage and the zombies block damage that is. Our own block damage is so utterly weak compared to zombies. Getting rid of a badly placed block is now a chore. Upgrading block is slow and tedious. Digging a mine to get ores now takes forever. God I still miss those awesome caverns from A11.

Zombie block damage borderline ridiculous. Not even with the best tools available am I able to out DPS a zombies block damage let alone trying to fix it. Blocks are blocks. There is no penalty on which type is used. Zombies will do the same points of damage to wood, concrete or steel. Only hit points make the difference. Wood block should be easier to break and steel should be harder hence a durability penalty. The same penalty for not using the proper tool for the job. Using and axe for wood and so on. The Hawaiian Zombie does 250 points a hit. Wow! this guy has titanium jackhammers for fingers and he has no penalty for block type. Combined all this with the new AI, blocks seems like haybales. I wish the zombies remained stupid.

I remember glorious horde night in my tiny 3X3 iron reinforced wood tower and surviving. Now, you need steel and a sea of spikes. I never made underground bunkers. I'd rather make castles. Now there's no point in investing so much time.

I made a small test to see their digging abilities. Gave myself level 60 with perks to dig faster plus an auger. Made myself a 5X5 concrete box at bedrock and plugged the hole with stone. That was from +65 to bedrock. Put the game to horde night and waited on how much time it would take them to reach me.

So level 60 GS. +65 to bedrock on 90 minute days and max 8 zeds. Horde dug pretty much straight down went trough my concrete box and I was dead at 00:10. No joke anything underground is just a waste of time now.

Balancing is needed. We should make more block damage and zombies should make less and have a block type penalty. Hawaiian type zombies (hard hitters) should be toned down further but still remain a threat.

P.S. There is a lot of good stuff in a 17. But I preferred A11 with no vehicles & electricity. Bring back those caverns!

 
Agreed, their block damage is just too much. I love everything about the AI, they are smarter and I like that they find weaknesses, but they should not be doing that kind of damage to blocks. Definitely needs to be lowered.

 
Absolutely agree. The problem is further reinforeced by (bug?) that zombies can in fact stand in same point (they are passable for each other) and therefore tney can all attack the very same block, instantly making a small breach in defense and overwhelming your base defenses.

Please rollback the change that allowed zombies to all stay in same point, thank you.

 
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i disagree sure they hurt stone very fast but its part of the horror survivalaspect of the game, just becus u got concrete you shouldnt feel safer then wood becus you need t o fend of the horde right? else it would be a walk in the park never having to build concrete other then to repair half a broken block after 6 hours of beating on it right? so i like block dmg..

 
Absolutely agree. The problem is further reinforeced by (bug?) that zombies can in fact stand in same point (they are passable for each other) and therefore tney can all attack the very same block, instantly making a small breach in defense and overwhelming your base defenses.
Please rollback the change that allowed zombies to all stay in same point, thank you.
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This is actually a really good suggestion. I mean I'm not really bothered by the block damage as much as I am by pseudo-bugs like zeds occupying the same space. Weird looking things like that really hurt immersion (which is paramount in a game like this imo).

 
UMMM block damage by the zombies can be configured now. It can be set as low as you would like now.
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And you can also set player block damage independently.
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Doesn't really mean that design decision is right and game is perfectly fine and balanced and nothing needs to be done.

The zombie block damage needs to be looked at. Re-evaluated at least. Don't just ignore the issue like it doesn't exist...

 
Is it possible that we can get zombies attacks to actually damage each other? If 5 Zeds are all swinging wildly and trying to get through the same doorway to get at you, maybe the ones at the back; who obviously don't care about their fellow walkers, damage the ones in their way in their desperate flesh-eating rage. Wouldn't have to be full melee damage but to see Honey Boo boo Mama knocking skinny cheerleaders to the floor would be funny and immersive.

 
Is it possible that we can get zombies attacks to actually damage each other? If 5 Zeds are all swinging wildly and trying to get through the same doorway to get at you, maybe the ones at the back; who obviously don't care about their fellow walkers, damage the ones in their way in their desperate flesh-eating rage. Wouldn't have to be full melee damage but to see Honey Boo boo Mama knocking skinny cheerleaders to the floor would be funny and immersive.
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It is already possible, zeds hit each other. In the early days of a17 i saw a zed even killed another, which was already attacked by me a few times with a bow.

 
Isn’t this necro thread?
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Why ? because the thread is from a older version before we had a perticular options for blockdamage ?

Naaa, it make completly sense to bash a few meanings of stupid players that simply dont use these settings in those days.

 
I dont think anyone is being bashed here?????? Am I missing something?
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Maybe not until now. Its only a matter of time util someone dont read the postdates and will interpret a understandable statement for the old version as a stupid comment on the current version

 
The block damage setting does not fix the problem in my opinion. The root problem is a trio of issues, one of which is a bug...

1) Zombie AI makes the zombies always attack the weakest block between them and you. So as soon as a block is more damaged than its neighbours, they all want to attack that same block.

2) Zombies each get a "flanking" damage bonus for all other zombies that are attacking the same block.

3) And the bug...zombies clip through each other. This means any number of zombies can attack the same block, when really only 3 should be able to (1 adjacent, 2 diagonal).

Put all this together, and blocks vanish in seconds, even Steel.

They really need to fix (3) before block damage will work in a satisfactory manner imo.

 
i disagree sure they hurt stone very fast but its part of the horror survivalaspect of the game, just becus u got concrete you shouldnt feel safer then wood becus you need t o fend of the horde right?
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But there should be a visible difference between wood, flagstone, cobblestone, concrete and steel. At the moment the difference is very little if a lot of zombies bash on the same spot. Concrete can buy you only a few seconds more than wood. Not really a big difference.

 
Fixing 3 is easy. But then you get 4: Zombies push other zombies through blocks

Solving that without getting point 3: well this needs time

(At least how i see it)

 
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It’s fine. There is no longer an issue with block damage. You have settings, go use them. Otherwise start a real thread about why the settings don’t work.

 
Just checked the files. I think the main problem here is that zombies in general don't have something like "lesser damage against block types". This is evident in some tools like a chainsaw being good for wood, but not against stone, dirt, or metal. Example of chainsaw below:

Code: 
		<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.9" tags="earth"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.9" tags="stone"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.9" tags="metal"/>
On the other hand, a typical zombie attack (item used by the zombies, described in items.xml file) is way different than player hand attack. Compare the two:

Code: 
<item name="meleeHandPlayer">
<property name="Extends" value="meleeHandMaster"/>
<property name="Tags" value="blunt,melee,light,fists,perkLivingOffTheLandCrops"/>
<property name="CreativeMode" value="None"/>
<property name="HoldType" value="0"/>
<property class="Action0">
	<property name="Class" value="DynamicMelee"/>
	<property name="Damage_type" value="Bashing"/>
</property>
<property class="Action1"> <!-- UseAction -->
	<property name="Class" value="DynamicMelee"/>
	<property name="Sphere" value="0.15"/>   <!-- limit to 0.15, else the sphere cast can overlap the target already -->
	<property name="UsePowerAttackAnimation" value="true"/>
</property>
<effect_group name="Base Effects">
	<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="base_set" value="10"/>
	<passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="base_set" value="2.5"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="0" tags="wood"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.5" tags="earth"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.5" tags="stone"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.5" tags="metal"/>
	<passive_effect name="AttacksPerMinute" operation="base_set" value="80"/> <!-- A16 .75 -->
	<passive_effect name="StaminaLoss" operation="base_set" value="8.6" tags="primary"/>

	<passive_effect name="MaxRange" operation="base_set" value="2.0"/>
	<passive_effect name="BlockRange" operation="base_set" value="2.6"/>

	<passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="base_set" value="0" tags="allToolsHarvest"/> <!-- all tools but not player hands -->
</effect_group>
<effect_group name="Power Attack">
	<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value="1" tags="secondary"/>
	<passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="perc_add" value="1" tags="secondary"/>
	<passive_effect name="AttacksPerMinute" operation="perc_add" value="-.3" tags="secondary"/>
	<passive_effect name="StaminaLoss" operation="base_add" value="13" tags="secondary"/>
</effect_group>
<property name="ActionSkillGroup" value="attAgility"/>
<!--use_action class="LiftUpTerrain" delay="1" use_time="..." gain_health="-5"gain_stamina="-20" gain_food="0" gain_water="10" gain_sickness="15" condition_raycast_block="77,78,79,80" sound_start="player_drinking" /-->
</item>
Code: 
<item name="meleeHandZombie01">
<property name="Extends" value="meleeHandMaster"/>
<property name="CreativeMode" value="None"/>
<property class="Action0">
	<property name="Buff" value="buffInjuryBleeding,buffIllInfection0,buffInjuryStunned1"/>
</property>
<effect_group name="Base Effects">
	<passive_effect name="ModSlots" operation="base_set" value="0"/>
	<passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="base_set" value="10" tags="primary"/>
	<passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="base_set" value="16" tags="primary"/>
	<!--<passive_effect name="AttacksPerMinute" operation="base_set" value="75"/>  A16 .8 -->
	<passive_effect name="BuffProcChance" operation="base_set" value="0.15" tags="buffInjuryBleeding"/>
	<passive_effect name="BuffProcChance" operation="base_set" value="0.10" tags="buffIllInfection0"/>
	<passive_effect name="BuffProcChance" operation="base_set" value="0.15" tags="buffInjuryStunned1"/>
</effect_group>
</item>
The player hand has distinct detriments (-.5) against hitting earth, stone and metal. I will try experimenting with this and adding lesser damage for specific zombie weapons to see how it works.

EDIT: Just checked that this actually works. Steel blocks take zombies to hit for single digit damage, whereas wooden blocks get hit for far higher amounts. Because i didn't want everything to be hit the same, i used the below code added to all zombie hands (weapons), although changing values for weaker/stronger zombies if needed a bit.

Code: 
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.1" tags="wood"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="0" tags="earth"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.3" tags="stone"/>
	<passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.6" tags="metal"/>
 
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The block damage setting does not fix the problem in my opinion. The root problem is a trio of issues, one of which is a bug...
1) Zombie AI makes the zombies always attack the weakest block between them and you. So as soon as a block is more damaged than its neighbours, they all want to attack that same block.

2) Zombies each get a "flanking" damage bonus for all other zombies that are attacking the same block.

3) And the bug...zombies clip through each other. This means any number of zombies can attack the same block, when really only 3 should be able to (1 adjacent, 2 diagonal).

Put all this together, and blocks vanish in seconds, even Steel.

They really need to fix (3) before block damage will work in a satisfactory manner imo.
Click to expand...
I haven't tested it yet myself but does setting zombie block damage to 25% help at all?

 
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