PC Anyone else think this version is a big pile of stinking Krap?

Since I am our group's miner, I need to mine for about 3 days in every 7 to keep the rest in gunpowder
- If you don't like mining, maybe you shouldn't be the miner in your group?!?

- If you need to mine 3/7 of your time just for gunpowder, you either haven't picked suitable talents or your group is wasting way too much ammo.

Easy fix: Anyone who wants to use automatic weapons outside of bloodmoon night has to mine on all other nights.

 
This is subjective. There is a lot to like in A18. but for certain players (such as me!) there are massive negatives. The mining issue for one thing, see comment above. But another major one is the ridiculous GS scaling for multi-player. Solo play is now absolutely the EASY mode in A18, and multiplayer is now hard mode. Talk about role reversal? Was never this way. Since I play 80% co-op, this is proving horrible. Example:
2 player co-op: each player has gamestage 100. Net MP GS = 320.

Notice the problem? If I play solo with my char, my gamestage is 100. If my friend jumps in, our GS becomes 320. This is ridiculous and means we are using all our ammo on horde night to fight a simply monstrous horde with multiple demolishers. This as day 21. Yes we lost our base. We have never lost our base before.

In order to enjoy A18 we are having to set difficulty to Warrior or above (just so there are actually zombies in the world ?!?!), except on horde night when we need to drop it to default just to have a chance against the horde.

Compare to my parallel solo play-through on Warrior, which is a walk in the park in comparison. Very very easy mode.
Of course! it's subjective. How could liking or not liking something be anything other than subjective??????

If you're the groups miner then I'm pretty surprised that you don't like A18 mining, as others have noted, if there's anything wrong with it at all it's that it's too easy now.

That however, is a balance thing only, TFP can fine tune it, and that by the way is the answer to the MP GS issue you're describing - if TFP agrees it's scaling too fast, they can tone it back some. We're still in experimental, so it is only natural, damn near inevitable in fact, that we have balance issues at the moment.

The game play, the mechanics, the systems themselves however, are, imho (of course!) the best its ever been, bar none.

If mining were such an issue too, if you claim to be the groups miner but only ever want to "mine" surface boulders, you could easily edit the XML's to have them drop whatever quantities of ores you feel are right for you, but mining has never been easier than it is now, with the possible exception of A13 (I think it was) where any vein, anywhere, was massive and contained every ore possible.

 
with the possible exception of A13 (I think it was) where any vein, anywhere, was massive and contained every ore possible.
Not hating on anyone, but wow that sounds like bad game design. :D

I started in A15 and I had something similar. It was my first game after I learned forges are a thing. So I played on 120 hour days, because I still felt slow af. I guess it was around day 21 when I found a promising iron vein. Soon it was interwoven with all the other ores. It lasted until I stopped playing that particular game what was at day 140 or something like that. It probably just were multiple veins with too little distance to each other to distinct.

 
Running is no longer a giant chore. It feels to me like they have got the stamina balance just perfect.

Leveling up take a lot longer.. Awesome! Power leveling makes a game boring real quick.

Graphics... Nice!

Best of all .. it just plain works. The menus transition faster. The interface is more responsive. RWG map panning is much much better. Looks like some optimization kicked in.

 
Running is no longer a giant chore. It feels to me like they have got the stamina balance just perfect.
Leveling up take a lot longer.. Awesome! Power leveling makes a game boring real quick.

Graphics... Nice!

Best of all .. it just plain works. The menus transition faster. The interface is more responsive. RWG map panning is much much better. Looks like some optimization kicked in.
Yep, it really is an impressive leap forward from a17. I greatly disliked a17. A18 is a very nice change, cant wait to see how stable and then a19 will improve upon this.

 
a16 > a18 > a17

18 is a MASSIVE upgrade over 17 for me. Books alone clinch it :) Of course there are things I dislike, but I figure some mods will iron things out for me.

 
Are you complaining about ore colors now that we can finally distinguish them? Im not sure about the 2 specific ones you are talking about, but refering specifically to this version when complaining about ore colors makes no sense. They finally made mining awesome.
I have to disagree with mining being awesome in this version.

First, I don't like big globs of ore on the surface. Not only unrealistic, but just screams "Cheap MMORPG AF!"

Second, I dont' like how stupidly easy it is to come across every ore you need, without even trying. Granted, it wasn't exactly hard before, but you at least had to dedicate a bit of time to do it - go find your gravel patches, dig, see what popped up, etc. It was an element of prospecting, so to speak. Now? No such effort required. Just see it while you're pedaling your bike to the next loot house, hit the map, make a note and keep trucking.

Overall:

1) Don't care that they're gone. Fixing a bug is not a bad thing.

2) I don't mind books. Despise schematics.

3) ♥♥♥♥ing YES to this. As someone who tries to envision a character before hand, and play/spec to his purposes (i.e. a mechanical engineer, chemist, farmer, accountant, bum, etc.) I really, really despise having RNGeezus control my character development in many cases even more than my own choices.

4) No opinion.

5) Vehicle speeds aren't a concern. I don't rush anything beyond a bicycle, and have yet to go beyond a minibike outside of experimentation.

6) See my above opinion on what I believe is the utter ridiculousness of the current approach to mining.

 
3) A18 has more freedom than A17 - no level gates. You may not like the attribute/perk system, but your specific complaint doesn't really make sense.
Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.

Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.

 
Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.
Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.
You're free to adjust the games leveling curve to suit your needs. You can adjust experience gained in the games own menu, or you can edit the XML's to adjust the rate at which it increases per level, the base amount of XP required per level, or even the number of skill points rewarded for each level. What has been removed is any specific "must be level [x] to unlock this perk" requirement, and that does allow the player much more freedom to spec as they want, and with the ability to very simply modify the game, the speed at which they can spec.

 
Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.
Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.
What are you even talking about. Like what specifically requires 14 skill points to unlock that you cant unlock at level 1 with a schematic? Also no change was made to the "tankiness" of zombies.

 
What are you even talking about. Like what specifically requires 14 skill points to unlock that you cant unlock at level 1 with a schematic? Also no change was made to the "tankiness" of zombies.
Is your answer to spending 14 points really, really just to hope that the masters of divinity bless you with the particular schematic that you're looking for for your character? I can only speak to my personal experience, but my ~19-20 hours on my world have awarded me with precisely... 2 schematics that my character build (in this playthrough, a mechanical engineer) really needed.

If your answer to staggering skill-gates is "f'k it, loot and pray"... I'm not sure you'll ever understand what I'm even talking about.

 
Is your answer to spending 14 points really, really just to hope that the masters of divinity bless you with the particular schematic that you're looking for for your character? I can only speak to my personal experience, but my ~19-20 hours on my world have awarded me with precisely... 2 schematics that my character build (in this playthrough, a mechanical engineer) really needed.
If your answer to staggering skill-gates is "f'k it, loot and pray"... I'm not sure you'll ever understand what I'm even talking about.
I answered nothing, If you check again you can see my response was a question, which you failed to answer.

 
You're free to adjust the games leveling curve to suit your needs. You can adjust experience gained in the games own menu, or you can edit the XML's to adjust the rate at which it increases per level, the base amount of XP required per level, or even the number of skill points rewarded for each level. What has been removed is any specific "must be level [x] to unlock this perk" requirement, and that does allow the player much more freedom to spec as they want, and with the ability to very simply modify the game, the speed at which they can spec.
To be fair, by that same token, you could've easily modded out the level requirements before, decreased experience, knocked the leveling progression up from 1.0149 to 1.05, etc. etc.

Essentially, the same argument you have for me, the exact inverse would've given you the A18 progression experience that you appear to be supporting? I say that to make a point that I hope you can agree with, "Moddability doesn't excuse poor balancing or design".

Yet you're telling me to do just that.

As for adjusting the exp itself - I may in time, but truthfully, if you look at how quickly the exp requirements scale - even increasing XP - once you hit even mid game, the current "per level" gain rapidly outpaces what even the options can make up for.

As an example:

By level 30, you need 49% more exp than you did in A17.

By level 40, you need 87% more exp than you did in A17.

By level 50, you need 138% more exp than you did in A17.

So, you can see that, even boosting exp to 200%, by level 50, that's already substantially lower than what you need to compensate for the slower progression. You'd still take longer reaching Level 50, than you would with only 100% exp in A17.

Consider that some things take such a significant amount of points to unlock. I.E. unlocking the Junk turret takes 7. Unlocking first-aid bandages (I believe) takes 8. Unlocking a supply of meat stew (farming & cooking) takes about 15. That's not including other "basic" skills that people tend to level up - healing factor, miner, loot, cardio, pain tolerance, their weapon skill, etc. Now, consider that level 8 is the magic level where you actually start requiring more exp than you did in A17, and I think you can start to see how, if you want to develop an interesting character instead of just letting RNGeezus grab you by the nuts and drag you where it wants, you can fairly quickly become more chained and restricted by this system, than you were by the leveling system in A17.

- - - Updated - - -

I answered nothing, If you check again you can see my response was a question, which you failed to answer.
You specifically listed schematics as an alternative to the 14 skill points required. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that, you were intending to give a sarcastic answer, than to have to accept that you're actually that clueless.

 
Is your answer to spending 14 points really, really just to hope that the masters of divinity bless you with the particular schematic that you're looking for for your character? I can only speak to my personal experience, but my ~19-20 hours on my world have awarded me with precisely... 2 schematics that my character build (in this playthrough, a mechanical engineer) really needed.
If your answer to staggering skill-gates is "f'k it, loot and pray"... I'm not sure you'll ever understand what I'm even talking about.
You seem to want to plan out your character before you've even started the game - and that's ok, if that's how you want to play, more power to you, but the game doesn't play that way. Without investing in the requisite perks, you're at the mercy of RNG - that, by the way, is a plus in my book, since each game will play differently depending on what schematics I happen to find.

What I suggest you do, is give yourself whatever schematics relate to your role play character at the start of each game, and then you can role play an engineer-survivor, or a doctor-survivor or a miner-survivor, or whatever it is you want to play.

I'll continue to play the game in what I find to be the more enjoyable "my character will evolve depending on what I find" kind of way.

 
You seem to want to plan out your character before you've even started the game - and that's ok, if that's how you want to play, more power to you, but the game doesn't play that way. Without investing in the requisite perks, you're at the mercy of RNG - that, by the way, is a plus in my book, since each game will play differently depending on what schematics I happen to find.
What I suggest you do, is give yourself whatever schematics relate to your role play character at the start of each game, and then you can role play an engineer-survivor, or a doctor-survivor or a miner-survivor, or whatever it is you want to play.

I'll continue to play the game in what I find to be the more enjoyable "my character will evolve depending on what I find" kind of way.
Thank you for getting it!! lol

That's exactly how I like to play. And, that's why the change from A17 to A18 (even with the removal of level-gates) kills me - it took away my ability to do that, an ability that was permitted for the last 3 years I played? Even with the level gates of A17 (most of which were reasonable), it was fairly simple to have a vision of a character, and role-play that character - which I don't think is a real inappropriate thing to ask out of a role playing game lol. And, although this isn't the best argument, I find it's more grounded in reality (even in the context of the game world). You had a profession, interests, skills, hobbies, knowledge, etc. before the zombies - and you're probably going to be fairly reliant on using your strengths (which would come from those things) to try and survive the best you can.

I don't have anything against the RNG-based playstyle - I just don't want to feel handcuffed by it, like I do now.

 
You specifically listed schematics as an alternative to the 14 skill points required. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that, you were intending to give a sarcastic answer, than to have to accept that you're actually that clueless.
Nah, you jumped in here with a comment that makes it sound that people that disagree are all mentally bedridden, being led around by the nose by TFP buying into some propaganda or some nonsense.

I just didnt find any truth in that post and except for the the fact that it takes a lot of xp to progress now. Which can easily be adjusted in the options.

I asked for you to clarify what exactly it is that you feel is still gated away from you, since everything can be unlocked with either minimal investment or looting.

I mean if you are going to jump into a discussion with underlying tones that are insulting, maybe expect a sarcastic question back when your facts are.. questionable at best.

 
Thank you for getting it!! lol
That's exactly how I like to play. And, that's why the change from A17 to A18 (even with the removal of level-gates) kills me - it took away my ability to do that, an ability that was permitted for the last 3 years I played? Even with the level gates of A17 (most of which were reasonable), it was fairly simple to have a vision of a character, and role-play that character - which I don't think is a real inappropriate thing to ask out of a role playing game lol. And, although this isn't the best argument, I find it's more grounded in reality (even in the context of the game world). You had a profession, interests, skills, hobbies, knowledge, etc. before the zombies - and you're probably going to be fairly reliant on using your strengths (which would come from those things) to try and survive the best you can.

I don't have anything against the RNG-based playstyle - I just don't want to feel handcuffed by it, like I do now.
Except it's not a Role Playing game. There actually aren't any classes in the (vanilla) game (some mods do implement them however). So, just as it was, as you yourself noted, up to me to remove level gates in A17 - which is exactly what I did - it's up to you to make 7dtd into a role playing game, if that's what you want it to do.

So, yes, in A17 I modded out level gates. In A18 (and likely beyond), you'll have to mod in a "character class" if that's what you want to do - and the simplest way to do that, would be to give yourself, via the creative menu, what schematics you feel are appropriate to that class.

 
Except it's not a Role Playing game. There actually aren't any classes in the (vanilla) game (some mods do implement them however). So, just as it was, as you yourself noted, up to me to remove level gates in A17 - which is exactly what I did - it's up to you to make 7dtd into a role playing game, if that's what you want it to do.
So, yes, in A17 I modded out level gates. In A18 (and likely beyond), you'll have to mod in a "character class" if that's what you want to do - and the simplest way to do that, would be to give yourself, via the creative menu, what schematics you feel are appropriate to that class.
Except that the devs literally describe it on Steam as an RPG...

"... Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

Kinda hard to argue that it's not intended to be an RPG when the developers themselves say it's intended to be an RPG, isn't it?

Also - there are no specifically hardlined, defined classes in Skyrim, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Wasteland 2.... or the innumerable other examples (lol)... That really doesn't change the fact that they are role playing games?

EDIT:

Hell, I'll even do you one better: https://7daystodie.com/?home

Two times on its homepage, the developers refer to it as an RPG.

 
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