PC Anyone else think this version is a big pile of stinking Krap?

The progression is slower which I don't really care for but, for the most part I enjoy the changes.

Bringing schems back was a really great thing. It allows people to still craft without the skill points. The only real problem is the drop rate. It has always been trash. I used to run around for 50 lvls before finding a friggin hunting knife book in previous alpha's and it isn't any better. Yay, my 12 vol 7 of the same damn book and none of the others in the set.

Melee is kinda wonky. I don't particularly care for the glancing blows thing as I end up hurting my teamates who are nowhere near me.

I love lockpicking it just seems silly I can't lockpick a door. It's much better than spending 3 game hours chopping through a safe with a stone axe.

The biggest problem is apparently food. My server admin died 5 times to starvation lol. You basically have to specialize in food at the begining or you're screwed. Mining drains your food so fast you can't mine without a huge supply and many of us can't even find enough to stay alive for the week without mining.

I love the new mining system and textures however. I can finally tell what ore is what. The previous textures were all the same and made it difficult.

The bow used to be bread and butter. Now it's trash. Never thought I'd use that blunderbuss again but, it's far better than the bow. There's plenty of ammo to sustain just a rifle, pistol, shotty, low level but, everything requiring repair kits to fix is both good and bad. It free's up an inventory slot and yet not really possible low level to aquire. So decent weapons are throw away early game.

Gyrocopter has always been trash. Hard to steer, hard to lift off, hit the wrong button and fall to your death. It's just dumb. Maybe, if you could take off vertical, hover, and land vertical it would be worth the effort.

New explody demo zeds are awesome. Lucky bastards but, that was just one time hehe. They are easy to stop and it is a great dynamic. Before I just worried about cops. However, the night 7 grind has always been an issue. Most of the time a night 7 isn't worth the effort. The amount of resources to be ready and repair after doesn't make up for what you earn. This is exponetially worse now that leveling is so much slower. Most love night 7's for leveling. Now, I'd rather nerd pole and save the ammo. Early game primarily.

I'm SOOOOO glad snowberries have been basically removed. Gawd they were dumb. I am slightly disapointed how everything food and drink warms you up but nothing cools you off anymore. Snow biome has always been a pain but now the desert is just as bad. With the exception the snow biome has some serious lag issues but i'm sure that will be fixed.

I haven't seen a single chicken. Not one. And what's with cars being so stingy about engines and batteries? Basically have to rip 3 towns apart to find enough for 3 generator stations jeez. Broke an engine hanging by a hook in a garage, it gave me plastic... lol..

I love the changes. There are some glaring issues but over all it's great. Not a big fan of pointless sneak skills that will never help on night 7 or schems that never drop but, it's a fair cry better than the assbaggery retardness of The Long Dark.

 
The biggest problem is apparently food. My server admin died 5 times to starvation lol. You basically have to specialize in food at the begining or you're screwed. Mining drains your food so fast you can't mine without a huge supply and many of us can't even find enough to stay alive for the week without mining.
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Just want to point it out because I totally underestimated how good they were until a couple days ago: Red Tea is GOAT for mining. Only one point required to unlock them, chrysanthemum are everywhere, and you get your jars back. And the prevention to your stamina drain is massive. At level 14, I dug an entire mine, built a mine shack, collected about 600 iron, 600 clay and 600 stone in one day, and still had well over half my stamina left, from just drinking red tea that day.

 
I agree, red tea is the bomb shizzle. I just don't feel safe mining when I only have 2 cans of sham or 4 bacon and eggs that have made me sick 50% of the time.

 
Except that the devs literally describe it on Steam as an RPG..."... Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

Kinda hard to argue that it's not intended to be an RPG when the developers themselves say it's intended to be an RPG, isn't it?

Also - there are no specifically hardlined, defined classes in Skyrim, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Wasteland 2.... or the innumerable other examples (lol)... That really doesn't change the fact that they are role playing games?

EDIT:

Hell, I'll even do you one better: https://7daystodie.com/?home

Two times on its homepage, the developers refer to it as an RPG.
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Ok, well, fair point that on the call out, but then have you ever seen a class in 7dtd vanilla? So maybe TFP should clarify that page some (their call), but the fact remains that your best way to get the game to play the way you want it to, is to mod it in, or, if it's just a "basic class" you're after, give yourself a few schematics when you start.

Personally, I wouldn't call 7dtd an RPG, but that's just me I guess.

 
Personally, I wouldn't call 7dtd an RPG, but that's just me I guess.

I prolly didn't do this right. Not very good at this forum stuff.

Oh, I don't know. I change my classes nightly. Not exactly mage or paladin but, I could be the jerkwad, the friendly merchant, the noob sauce, the leave me alone or i'll randomly shove a flaming exploding crossbow rpg up your pie hole, sometimes I even play the orphanage owner and take in all the strays that can't even manage a wooden box house. heheh...

There's only 2 classes, scav or craft. Doing both hurts the skills but is still possible. Just takes longer. Not sure pistolero vs machine gun joe is really a class distinction.

 
Nah, you jumped in here with a comment that makes it sound that people that disagree are all mentally bedridden, being led around by the nose by TFP buying into some propaganda or some nonsense.
I just didnt find any truth in that post and except for the the fact that it takes a lot of xp to progress now. Which can easily be adjusted in the options.

I asked for you to clarify what exactly it is that you feel is still gated away from you, since everything can be unlocked with either minimal investment or looting.

I mean if you are going to jump into a discussion with underlying tones that are insulting, maybe expect a sarcastic question back when your facts are.. questionable at best.
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Regarding the buying into of TFP propaganda... Wasn't calling you retarded - more like unwilling to analyze it for what it is. It's like they took your $5, gave you (5) $1s, and most of you are convinced you have more money.

I did explain my reasoning enough for others to get it at least - if you're having trouble with something in particular, I'll do the best I can to explain it - just give me specifics.

Regarding "questionable facts," I'll start with the one you specifically questioned: "They didn't increase tankiness."

Okay, I'll bite. They didn't give the zombies more life, no.... They just made weapons do less damage, at least early game. Any idea what happens when they make you do less damage in a fight?

it gets longer, because the enemies tank more hits

A few excerpts from the comparative values from the XMLs. Because the only static values given are for QL1 (the rest are value ranges, so variable mileage), I believe this is a more accurate representation of the overall changes. Besides, if damage increases based on ranges per quality level, versus the A17 system, etc. - that's hard for a very direct comparison.

This, however, is a direct comparison of QL1 vs. QL1 base damage, no skills.

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: left]

[tr]

[td]Weapon[/td]

[td]A17[/td]

[td]A18[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Wood Club[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]13.8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Iron Club[/td]

[td]21[/td]

[td]17.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Iron Sledgehammer[/td]

[td]42[/td]

[td]30.8[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

That's ~14% decrease to the Wood Club, ~17% decrease to Iron Club, & ~27% decrease to Iron Sledgehammer.

That sort of decrease is where I feel the tankiness has increased.

 
Ok, well, fair point that on the call out, but then have you ever seen a class in 7dtd vanilla? So maybe TFP should clarify that page some (their call), but the fact remains that your best way to get the game to play the way you want it to, is to mod it in, or, if it's just a "basic class" you're after, give yourself a few schematics when you start.
Personally, I wouldn't call 7dtd an RPG, but that's just me I guess.
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I think you're being a bit too traditional "D&D" with the definition of RPG (which is fair, I played tons of traditional RPGs too). In more modern years though, the going trend is "classless" RPGs. The benefit being exactly what I mentioned loving about A17 - you're free to create your unique class. Not so much a limited number of classes/builds, but where you totally customize your skills to fit the type of character you want to play - but always with tradeoffs of some sort. Sort of how Oblivion let you create your own class (along with the name, and identifying the main skills that you'd use) or how in games like Fallout you simply level up whatever is right based on the class you have in your head, ya know?

 
I have to disagree with mining being awesome in this version.
First, I don't like big globs of ore on the surface. Not only unrealistic, but just screams "Cheap MMORPG AF!"

Second, I dont' like how stupidly easy it is to come across every ore you need, without even trying. Granted, it wasn't exactly hard before, but you at least had to dedicate a bit of time to do it - go find your gravel patches, dig, see what popped up, etc. It was an element of prospecting, so to speak. Now? No such effort required. Just see it while you're pedaling your bike to the next loot house, hit the map, make a note and keep trucking.

Overall:

1) Don't care that they're gone. Fixing a bug is not a bad thing.

2) I don't mind books. Despise schematics.

3) ♥♥♥♥ing YES to this. As someone who tries to envision a character before hand, and play/spec to his purposes (i.e. a mechanical engineer, chemist, farmer, accountant, bum, etc.) I really, really despise having RNGeezus control my character development in many cases even more than my own choices.

4) No opinion.

5) Vehicle speeds aren't a concern. I don't rush anything beyond a bicycle, and have yet to go beyond a minibike outside of experimentation.

6) See my above opinion on what I believe is the utter ridiculousness of the current approach to mining.
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I have to disagree with your disagree. First of all the 'big globs of ore' is NOT on the surface. You have to dig 2-4 levels down to actually find the majority of the ore. Fact checking ftw. Haha, saying that digging for ore is unrealistic when you can build a complete 4x4 truck with just a (4x4) chassis and accessories. There are a lot more unrealistic aspects in this game and you complain about mining for ore?

I think it was A16 that had the actual ore deposits on the surface to indicate the main (ore) resource found below. In A17 they replaced them with gravel indicators. A18 just brought back those ore deposit indicators and made them more noticeable (eg easier to recognize/spot). So this is not new. If you did not complain about this in A16 then you should not be complaining about something that's already appeared in the game previously.

2) Schematics is the one of best parts of A18. Would you rather go back to magazines like in A17. They were completely useless.

3) The randomness in loot finding AKA RNG is what makes 7D2D fun/challenging. Even if you re-create the same world in different games. You'll end up with a different experience each time. You can still play/specs to your desires via leveling. Finding/buying books and schematics is the shortcut that you can use to reach your goals. If you want to RPG, I think there are/were some mods that did that for A17. Perhaps they're going to be updated for A18 soon.

5) I bought my minibike and made a 4x4. The storage size difference between those two is night and day. Can't imagine using a bicycle for storage. You are free to play however you like but just telling ya now if you don't utilize everything the game has to offer, you're only hurting yourself.

6) They changed the texture for the different ores to make them more distinguishable. It's supposed to help the player. Sorry if it's not 'realistic' enough for you.

 
Regarding the buying into of TFP propaganda... Wasn't calling you retarded - more like unwilling to analyze it for what it is. It's like they took your $5, gave you (5) $1s, and most of you are convinced you have more money.
I did explain my reasoning enough for others to get it at least - if you're having trouble with something in particular, I'll do the best I can to explain it - just give me specifics.

Regarding "questionable facts," I'll start with the one you specifically questioned: "They didn't increase tankiness."

Okay, I'll bite. They didn't give the zombies more life, no.... They just made weapons do less damage, at least early game. Any idea what happens when they make you do less damage in a fight?

it gets longer, because the enemies tank more hits

A few excerpts from the comparative values from the XMLs. Because the only static values given are for QL1 (the rest are value ranges, so variable mileage), I believe this is a more accurate representation of the overall changes. Besides, if damage increases based on ranges per quality level, versus the A17 system, etc. - that's hard for a very direct comparison.

This, however, is a direct comparison of QL1 vs. QL1 base damage, no skills.

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: left]

[tr]

[td]Weapon[/td]

[td]A17[/td]

[td]A18[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Wood Club[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]13.8[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Iron Club[/td]

[td]21[/td]

[td]17.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Iron Sledgehammer[/td]

[td]42[/td]

[td]30.8[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

That's ~14% decrease to the Wood Club, ~17% decrease to Iron Club, & ~27% decrease to Iron Sledgehammer.

That sort of decrease is where I feel the tankiness has increased.
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[table=width: 250, class: grid, align: left]

[tr]

[td]A17 Default[/td]

[td]A18 Default[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Nomad[/td]

[td]Adventurer[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

I find the new weapon values work well with Adventurer for not making the zombies feel tanky but also not too easily killable. Obviously for "feels right" as far as how easy or difficult it is to kill a zombie, things need to be tuned in to the default game mode which they are quite nicely, imo. With each deviation to the plus side of default you go, the zombies are going to feel more and more tankish especially versus primitive gear in the early game.

So my question to you is are you playing default difficulty and having a tough time with the balance of weapons vs zombie health or are you playing a more difficult option and complaining about it? Because if it's the latter......don't play higher difficulty if you don't like it.

 
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I have to disagree with your disagree. First of all the 'big globs of ore' is NOT on the surface. You have to dig 2-4 levels down to actually find the majority of the ore. Fact checking ftw. Haha, saying that digging for ore is unrealistic when you can build a complete 4x4 truck with just a (4x4) chassis and accessories. There are a lot more unrealistic aspects in this game and you complain about mining for ore?
I think it was A16 that had the actual ore deposits on the surface to indicate the main (ore) resource found below. In A17 they replaced them with gravel indicators. A18 just brought back those ore deposit indicators and made them more noticeable (eg easier to recognize/spot). So this is not new. If you did not complain about this in A16 then you should not be complaining about something that's already appeared in the game previously.

2) Schematics is the one of best parts of A18. Would you rather go back to magazines like in A17. They were completely useless.

3) The randomness in loot finding AKA RNG is what makes 7D2D fun/challenging. Even if you re-create the same world in different games. You'll end up with a different experience each time. You can still play/specs to your desires via leveling. Finding/buying books and schematics is the shortcut that you can use to reach your goals. If you want to RPG, I think there are/were some mods that did that for A17. Perhaps they're going to be updated for A18 soon.

5) I bought my minibike and made a 4x4. The storage size difference between those two is night and day. Can't imagine using a bicycle for storage. You are free to play however you like but just telling ya now if you don't utilize everything the game has to offer, you're only hurting yourself.

6) They changed the texture for the different ores to make them more distinguishable. It's supposed to help the player. Sorry if it's not 'realistic' enough for you.
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I specifically said "big glob of ore" - not "big veins". Vocabulary FTW.

Regarding my comment about realism - there's a difference imo between sacrificing some of it for the outright necessity of maintaining enjoyment (no, you probably don't want to have to learn about electric schematics and the engineering of a differential in order to make your 4x4. But actually having to mine to find your metals, etc.... Well, I think that's fairly reasonable. Hyperbole has a time/place in comparisons, and I think you greatly missed it there.

"Don't complain now cause you didn't then," is beyond imbecilic. That's like saying, "You drove drunk when you were a teenager, so you shouldn't tell your kids not to". (Note: that's proper use of hyperbole).

2) No, I would rather have predominant control of my character's design, rather than my control being an afterthought, second to random number generators.

3) See above statement regarding wanting to control my character's by choice rather than by luck.

5) I guess more context is definitely in order on this. I've typically played 30 minute days. In those situations, the days are not so long as to warrant anything really bigger than a minibike. Go somewhere, loot a couple POI (which typically fit in my minibike & inventory with very little encumberance.

6) Your apology is accepted.

 
This is the first alpha that I have literally stopped mid game and just said " I have no reason to keep playing" you can tout how high and mighty this alpha is, but if this is TFP vision, then they have visions of garbage.
Recent steam reviews reflect this pretty well also
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I am genuinely curious... what exactly makes it garbage?

 
I specifically said "big glob of ore" - not "big veins".
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I also don't like the surface ore deposits as they are currently implemented. Even if they could be sunk into the earth half-way I would like them tremendously more. I preferred the earlier surface ore implementation that were just jagged mounds. I'm also hoping they redistribute things a bit better. Too much lead.

 
[table=width: 250, class: grid, align: left][tr]

[td]A17 Default[/td]

[td]A18 Default[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Nomad[/td]

[td]Adventurer[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

I find the new weapon values work well with Adventurer for not making the zombies feel tanky but also not too easily killable. Obviously for "feels right" as far as how easy or difficult it is to kill a zombie, things need to be tuned in to the default game mode which they are quite nicely, imo. With each deviation to the plus side of default you go, the zombies are going to feel more and more tankish especially versus primitive gear in the early game.

So my question to you is are you playing default difficulty and having a tough time with the balance of weapons vs zombie health or are you playing a more difficult option and complaining about it? Because if it's the latter......don't play higher difficulty if you don't like it.
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I'm still playing Nomad, as I always have.

But, I don't believe default difficulty is relevant to that topic though, because the modifiers didn't change so I'm still comparing across the board. In other words, it's not as if "Adventurer is the new nomad, because they made Nomad harde," the Nomad Game Difficulty Value is still 1.5, Adventurer is still 1.2 etc.

In my opinion, what it comes down to is, the same weapon, against the same enemy, with the same life, on the same difficulty, with the same modifiers... now takes longer and more hits. Ergo, you've increased the "difficulty". Or, more accurately, slowed progress.

 
I specifically said "big glob of ore" - not "big veins". Vocabulary FTW.
Regarding my comment about realism - there's a difference imo between sacrificing some of it for the outright necessity of maintaining enjoyment (no, you probably don't want to have to learn about electric schematics and the engineering of a differential in order to make your 4x4. But actually having to mine to find your metals, etc.... Well, I think that's fairly reasonable. Hyperbole has a time/place in comparisons, and I think you greatly missed it there.

"Don't complain now cause you didn't then," is beyond imbecilic. That's like saying, "You drove drunk when you were a teenager, so you shouldn't tell your kids not to". (Note: that's proper use of hyperbole).

2) No, I would rather have predominant control of my character's design, rather than my control being an afterthought, second to random number generators.

3) See above statement regarding wanting to control my character's by choice rather than by luck.

5) I guess more context is definitely in order on this. I've typically played 30 minute days. In those situations, the days are not so long as to warrant anything really bigger than a minibike. Go somewhere, loot a couple POI (which typically fit in my minibike & inventory with very little encumberance.

6) Your apology is accepted.
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What I meant was they already had these ore indicators in A16 and A16 mining was generally well-liked. A17's mining took getting used to. You talked as if this was completely something new but it was already in the game before.

2) IMO the new system is much better than A17 system. I seriously doubt they'll redo the system in A18. If you don't like it, try playing with mods.

5) That's fine. Your game. Play however you like.

6) Yep. The new ore textures make mining SO much easier.

Obviously, A18 is still in experimental so anything can change.

Oh yeah, you're starting to get personal...stop it.

 
I'm still playing Nomad, as I always have.
But, I don't believe default difficulty is relevant to that topic though, because the modifiers didn't change so I'm still comparing across the board. In other words, it's not as if "Adventurer is the new nomad, because they made Nomad harde," the Nomad Game Difficulty Value is still 1.5, Adventurer is still 1.2 etc.

In my opinion, what it comes down to is, the same weapon, against the same enemy, with the same life, on the same difficulty, with the same modifiers... now takes longer and more hits. Ergo, you've increased the "difficulty". Or, more accurately, slowed progress.
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The fact that they stayed the same IS my point. The old weapon values vs Adventurer would've made it too easy to be the default difficulty mode for a gritty gamer's game like this one. The reduction in weapon damage dealing makes Adventurer feel like an average difficulty level rather than just plain easy like it used to be. Of course Nomad now feels a bit more difficult than it used to as you have pointed out...It IS now the +1 difficulty mode.

You are saying exactly what I was saying-- that nomad feels like it takes longer because zombies require more hits with primitive weapons and that is exactly how I used to feel when I would play a game in Warrior which was the old +1.

You should try a new game on Adventurer and see how the primitive weapons feel. To me, they feel right-- very close to how the default version of 7 days has always felt. You've always played on Nomad and so had I for the most part other than dabbling with Warrior from time to time. But now Nomad is +1 difficulty and you can complain about how +1 difficulty feels or you can play the new default and see how that feels.

 
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I gave A17 a huge amount of ♥♥♥♥ to the point me and Roland even went at it over it. It was dark times for some of us, but sorry OP, im enjoying Vanilla 18 a lot longer than I did 17.

Is it perfect? For a modder nothing is ever perfect but for Vanilla? Its damn awesome and made me a Pimps fan again after having some doubts through 17.

Im usually pretty negative but 18 has me in a good mood and I can not find too much to be negative over. Sure I have balance preference but everyone has those.

 
Not only that, on my old potato of a machine (940M) I can actually play a18 on 1920x1080, low settings but even on that it looks fantastic compared to 16/17. 17 wouldn't even run higher that 10fps, so to me - best alpha yet as I can actually play and enjoy it! :)

 
Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.
Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.
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You are right things are still pretty much level gated just in a different way. But the way it is set up feels almost about right with a little more balancing done. What is it you want to do? Just freely buy into steel on day one? Or buy into 4x4 on day one? If that is the case I would agree with others and say mod it. And yes you can turn that around I know but unless it is something that TFP want to do and or they change it for the majority then right now you are on the side of the fence that isn't how it is currently is and also not the majority wants. So in this specific situation you are goin to have to mod it not the other way. Anyway things feel almost right where they should be and maybe it will be different and or feel even more right when other things get added down the road like A19 or something. For me and I have played for a long time this is one of my favorite alphas so far. Of course that is just my opinion.

 
Sorry OP, but A18 rocks, and beats all prior Alphas into a bloody stain on the floor.
A shame you're not enjoying it, but A18 is where I found I can really see TFP's vision coming together for making a great game in all aspects, where previous Alphas had some elements of hit and miss to them.
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Woah there. A18 is better than A17, but then anything would be. Still think - apart from graphics - A16 was better.

LBD FTW!

 
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