PC An in depth discussion on zombie loot in alpha 17

[Colin248]

I was just giving a better method of testing it. The largest chunk of voters say they are reserving judgement until they can try it. So go try it voluntarily right now in A16. Report back on whether refraining from looting zombies changed 7 Days to Die beyond all recognition for you.
At least that is a better foundation to place a soap box before standing up and preaching the Truth about what is good or bad game design. Then again my own soap box is firmly planted on the foundation of my own personal experience with it but that apparently is of no consequence to those who would rather rest upon speculation, worry, accusation, and guesses about what it will be like.

TFP have always moved to their own tune since the beginning. They always wanted this to be an open voxel world with crafting (Minecraft) Role Playing (Fallout) Zombie survival (The Walking Dead) game. The elevator pitch included those three parenthetical inspirations. The change in the zombie loot is definitely a step toward the Zombie Survival side of things.

belive me i tryed, got to day 3 beating through a infested house. getting tons of levels and just random junk from the corpses. this was also a custom POI that had a ton of cabinets in it. from the zombies, i get enough to sustain me for a while without needing to resort to moldy bread or old sham samiches, but the supply is quickly dwindleing. this idea that zombies can be farmed for perfect loot is, quite frankly, total ■■■■■■■s. from the christ ton of cupboards i looted, i got... 10 scrap, some cans, and empty jars.

part of my worry comes from the stagnant amount of loot you get from containers. the only worthwhile stuff to loot tend to be the store specific boxes. like shamway, or pop n pills. zombie loot is so varied that, %75 of the time you will get total tripe, but still handy stuff, 20% handy items to always collect, and the %5 is the good ♥♥♥♥ like weapons and ammunition.

but. again. i too voted to give this a try before i judge so harshly. im just makeing sure my concerns are noted. and if im wrong, well, then i have the grace to admit i was wrong and learn from it. and, as you put it roland, adapt.

 

[Jedo]

Sylen doesnt like any 'off message' discussions on gameplay and design even though this very topic is to discuss the...gameplay and design of A17...
Now if you want to post multiple times how everything is wonderful and in Fun Pimps we trust I can assure you, there will be zeroproblems

To be honest Sylen should look at Roland, thats a constructive, non aggressive, firm and yet humorous way to manage the sheep (I include myself in that)

Instead of being butt-hurt and spreading your anguish all over the forum, grow up and get over it. Maybe try something like this:

I respectfully lodge my disagreement. Incremental gains. Do what you must.

- - - Updated - - -

im just makeing sure my concerns are noted.

Oh my goodness. The concerns of everybody who is against this change are noted. More than noted. The people in the console forum have noted it. The people in the ARK forums have noted it. We got it.

 

[RussianMafia]

Oh my goodness. The concerns of everybody who is against this change are noted. More than noted. The people in the console forum have noted it. The people in the ARK forums have noted it. We got it.

LOOL

 

[Roland]

belive me i tryed, got to day 3 beating through a infested house. getting tons of levels and just random junk from the corpses.

That is actually the opposite of what I was suggesting.

part of my worry comes from the stagnant amount of loot you get from containers. the only worthwhile stuff to loot tend to be the store specific boxes. like shamway, or pop n pills. zombie loot is so varied that, %75 of the time you will get total tripe, but still handy stuff, 20% handy items to always collect, and the %5 is the good ♥♥♥♥ like weapons and ammunition.

Loot is different than in A16. Did you notice in the video that Joel was still full up on much of the random stuff you get from zombies? That is with zombies dropping him no loot and only half the cupboards being lootable. TFP will make sure (eventually) that the game is balanced for loot.

but. again. i too voted to give this a try before i judge so harshly. im just makeing sure my concerns are noted. and if im wrong, well, then i have the grace to admit i was wrong and learn from it. and, as you put it roland, adapt.

Cool. And you might not be wrong-- for you. Even if 90% of the community says, "Okay TFP, you balanced it well and we do like the changes" but you still hate it you aren't wrong. For you, this will have been a detrimental change and hopefully there will be a way around it if that is the case. Modders won't know what they can do until they get it.

 

[PiercedFromWithin]

You know... I seem to remember a strikingly similar discussion a little over a year ago....

 

[Colin248]

That is actually the opposite of what I was suggesting.



Loot is different than in A16. Did you notice in the video that Joel was still full up on much of the random stuff you get from zombies? That is with zombies dropping him no loot and only half the cupboards being lootable. TFP will make sure (eventually) that the game is balanced for loot.

Cool. And you might not be wrong-- for you. Even if 90% of the community says, "Okay TFP, you balanced it well and we do like the changes" but you still hate it you aren't wrong. For you, this will have been a detrimental change and hopefully there will be a way around it if that is the case. Modders won't know what they can do until they get it.

i cant resist the call of loot, my main point being how more... lucrative looting corpses, even if they can be empty are, compared to a POI with plenty of cupboards in it. as you say, loot is different, but in the video i didn't see it. i saw less containers with fancier looks to them (when he got to the kitchen of the farmhouse.) and filled with the same loot tables as before. he opened the *unsearched* fridge and found.... ♥♥♥♥ and all.

and your right. altho i like to consider myself someone who can adjust and adapt with changes, but not unnecessary ones, or ones that can ruin the flow of the game play. i dont know if this is the case. come to think of it, this entire case is... kinda redundant isnt it till we get our hands on it. tho believe me when i say, the reason i started this was entirely selfless. im worried for a game i adore. and have adored for 16 alphas. and whilst i can say ive been disappointed to changes such as the gore block system getting scraped, and with wellness hitting the can, nothing has made me this... hrm... emotional, then with the change to the looting flow. this one change has made me say, "hold up, you sure you wana do this? "

 

[Roland]

You know... I seem to remember a strikingly similar discussion a little over a year ago....

Yep, and look at all the mods out there that reversed that hot topic. /s

TFP literally left everything in the code to allow modders to bring back spam crafting and yet....

 

[Roland]

i cant resist the call of loot, my main point being how more... lucrative looting corpses, even if they can be empty are, compared to a POI with plenty of cupboards in it. as you say, loot is different, but in the video i didn't see it. i saw less containers with fancier looks to them (when he got to the kitchen of the farmhouse.) and filled with the same loot tables as before. he opened the *unsearched* fridge and found.... ♥♥♥♥ and all.
and your right. altho i like to consider myself someone who can adjust and adapt with changes, but not unnecessary ones, or ones that can ruin the flow of the game play. i dont know if this is the case. come to think of it, this entire case is... kinda redundant isnt it till we get our hands on it. tho believe me when i say, the reason i started this was entirely selfless. im worried for a game i adore. and have adored for 16 alphas. and whilst i can say ive been disappointed to changes such as the gore block system getting scraped, and with wellness hitting the can, nothing has made me this... hrm... emotional, then with the change to the looting flow. this one change has made me say, "hold up, you sure you wana do this? "

Understandable and TFP is grateful to those like you who are cautiously willing to give it a try. Remember that there is usually a good month of experimental before stable comes out and giving feedback based on gameplay will be a much more convincing way to TFP as they consider whether they will keep this going forward or revert it back.

 

[Kalarro]

I love loot in games, but I dont like excess loot. And I hate to leave anything unlooted. So the change sounds good to me.

 

[Colin248]

Yep, and look at all the mods out there that reversed that hot topic. /s
TFP literally left everything in the code to allow modders to bring back spam crafting and yet....

spam crafting? you mean the whole, level up skills by crafting several hundread clubs/clothes/ what ever? im honestly surprised there was a fuss over that. XD was silly in the first place.

 

[Dosu Kinuta]

Well, sometimes. In Z Nation they sometimes have to find a specific person, probably undead, to get some item that they need to advance the plot. By the same token, most people in the world have coins, keys, credit cards, or other items in their possession that could be useful as scrap metals, scrap plastic, possibly a construction worker carrying hammers, wrenches, etc...
So in that sense, scarce loot or backpacks popping out of a corpse is immersion breaking. That Biker wasn't wearing a backpack, where did that come from?

Well..the ideea of having a backpack instead of a corpse is to reduce to memory usage, the game needs a lot of optimization, you can't say that it doesn't...but I agree it's a bit immersion breaking.

I agree that some, SOME zombies should have their specific loot..but rarely...and zombies should not become a way to farm resources, they should be a threat. For example, in real life do you think that zombies would walk and carry an engine with them?

A feral has a chance of having ammo and guns, now really? Just look at the feral a bit, it has no clothes, no backpack and yet it can have weapons and ammo. Where does the feral carry such things, in mouth...? Now that's BIG immersion breaking for me.

 

[Colin248]

Well..the ideea of having a backpack instead of a corpse is to reduce to memory usage, the game needs a lot of optimization, you can't say that it doesn't...but I agree it's a bit immersion breaking.
I agree that some, SOME zombies should have their specific loot..but rarely...and zombies should not become a way to farm resources, they should be a threat. For example, in real life do you think that zombies would walk and carry an engine with them?

A feral has a chance of having ammo and guns, now really? Just look at the feral a bit, it has no clothes, no backpack and yet it can have weapons and ammo. Where does the feral carry such things, in mouth...? Now that's BIG immersion breaking for me.

from what i understand, that isnt changieng. boss type zeds are still gona carry loot, but only the good ♥♥♥♥. so encorageing you to go and hunt there powerfull creatures.

 

[Qyzer]

Just within the last 24 hours I (test) modded back in gore terrain blocks from a few alphas ago (though I had to use a different texture since the "gore" texture seems to have been moved or deleted) that, when destroyed, drop backpacks if there is any loot in them. I prefer Zs climbing up and over defenses instead of them "learning" to destroy posts (I see it as "randomly attacking in frustration" rather than the "becoming structural engineers" though) but I do prefer the new lack of loot overall and voted that way despite being largely open to trying it.

Unless they somehow remove this ability entirely there should be the possibility of modding the old behavior back in (in a similar fashion to what Roland noted regarding crafting XP), though the work in re-balancing the loot tables might be a bit harder. I've done it for a friends and family mod but it seems crazy to start up with A17 looming.... (I hope it's looming )

 

[Reth]

I've been playing computer games for 30+ years now. Dead enemies always drop loot. That's the main reason to kill them. That's the whole risk vs reward process.

Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot or only dropped some junk loot with real loot reserved for raid/group/solo bosses. I'm sure the developers of those games had meetings where they discussed pros and cons. All of those games failed, with lack of loot being one of the reasons.

Whoever came up with this idea should really stop reinventing the wheel. There is a really good reason why dead enemies drop loot. BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO LOOT.

 

[SylenThunder]

I've been playing computer games for 30+ years now. Dead enemies always drop loot. That's the main reason to kill them. That's the whole risk vs reward process.
Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot or only dropped some junk loot with real loot reserved for raid/group/solo bosses. I'm sure the developers of those games had meetings where they discussed pros and cons. All of those games failed, with lack of loot being one of the reasons.

Whoever came up with this idea should really stop reinventing the wheel. There is a really good reason why dead enemies drop loot. BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO LOOT.

I'd love to see proof that the games failed because of no loot, but that is irrelevant here.

Zombies will still drop loot in a17.

 

[Jedo]

Dead enemies always drop loot.
Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot...

I'll just leave this here.

 

[meganoth]

Yes, I have seen a few games where dead enemies didn't drop loot or only dropped some junk loot with real loot reserved for raid/group/solo bosses. I'm sure the developers of those games had meetings where they discussed pros and cons. All of those games failed, with lack of loot being one of the reasons.

So Doom failed? I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY !!!!!!!

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I've been playing computer games for 30+ years now. Dead enemies always drop loot. That's the main reason to kill them. That's the whole risk vs reward process.

It's true. Space Invaders would never have caused the famous yen shortage in Japan if it wasn't for the fact that the aliens drop such sweet loot when you shoot them.

 

[Tin]

So Doom failed? I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY !!!!!!!

It's true. Space Invaders would never have caused the famous yen shortage in Japan if it wasn't for the fact that the aliens drop such sweet loot when you shoot them.

I guess we can add L4D 1&2 to the list as well.

 

[Reth]

And, of course, one thing never changes - fanbois always come out en mass to defend the insanity. Yep, seen that one too.