PC An in depth discussion on zombie loot in alpha 17

[SylenThunder]

The walls of text running in circles arguing with each others opinions is getting a little old guys.

You act like there's going to be no more loot. That scavenging from zombies has come to an end. That you're not going to have easy mode anymore and it will be more of a struggle to survive.

Oh wait, this is a survival game. Loot is too easy as it is.

I offered this suggestion in the Steam forum, I'll offer it here.

Test this right now. Start a new game. Set loot to 25%. Play until you're level 200.

I'd be willing to bet that's going to be close to what's in a17, except you will be missing out on the increased loot from boss zombies.

Starting out will be more of a challenge sure. I'm certain that once you're established, you'll still be throwing things away because you don't need them.

For a survival game, there is no real challenge currently. The game should be a challenge.

 

[Shiana]

It's a very bad decision to remove almost all the loot from the zeds. I mostly play on multiplayer, PVE-Only Servers, and yes, that means we have a friendly community, and want to show of our houses, and defend against zeds alone together. (that means we dont share resources, but we will defend someones home and life)

Very often in these games its a fact, that the ONLY loot comes from zombies, because everything in the nearby areas has already been lootet by someone, and the respawn will still take a few days to come.

With this new idea of loot only in cupboards and containers, that whole game style is gone. No more building together alone in PVE. no more building near to someone and showing off your building skills in the zombie apocalypse.

For that alone, my guess is that - if you look at the PVE/PVP Server ratio - 7d2d will loose about 60% of its community/players. This will also lead to bad reviews in steam by new players, and sorry to say: it will bring doom to the game..

 

[DragonFyre]

Very often in these games its a fact, that the ONLY loot comes from zombies, because everything in the nearby areas has already been lootet by someone, and the respawn will still take a few days to come.With this new idea of loot only in cupboards and containers, that whole game style is gone. No more building together alone in PVE. no more building near to someone and showing off your building skills in the zombie apocalypse.

I wonder how much of a problem this is on servers that don't greatly exceed the number of players the game is designed for.

Which is something they should have addressed a long time ago. Locking the servers into 8-players instead of allowing people to set it for more players than what is supported by the game.

With this new idea of loot only in cupboards and containers...

Are you dim?

Did you read what Sylenthunder said?

Zombies will still drop loot!

I'm going to give his suggestion a try and see how it turns out.

 

[meganoth]

That's a very flawed comparison. I said that if there's a big chunk of your audience that's disappointed by your decisions, it's worth looking into it, not that you should change your product because not the whole world is playing it.

This "looking into", what should that entail? For example in this specific case? I don't see any reasonable reaction from TFP except continuing as is and letting people try it out. If it IS a bad decision, players will tell them after playing it and only then do they have the evidence to actually do something. And don't just tell me that it helps them because they know this might be a problem later. Tell me how that knowledge changes the future, I don't see it.

Advanced feedback is important too. I remember when TFP changed the appearance of the burnt zombie, and it looked like a lava demon. A huge amount of the people raised their dislike towards the new texture, and they changed to something better looking. That was one example of advanced feedback that, as you can see, was useful in a way.

But in the case of the burnt zombie all the information was already in that picture or preview video. That is nearly impossible with a game play change. At least not enough to change something before the release, except for things that are provably wrong.

Well, firstly, this poll doesn't depict the whole audience. You can go to Joel's video and read the comments, you'll be surprised to find many more people that aren't so keen on the loot change, but their vote isn't accounted here.

And like I said, it's obviously better to wait for final judgement, but the first reception after a change has been made should definitely be noted, in my opinion.

1) The whole audience hasn't played A17 just like us, their information is as theoretical and useless as ours. 100000*useless is still useless :smile-new: .

2) Pointing to an even less representative group of people to disregard the vote of a group is not helping. The people not satisfied with a change are more likely to post their opinion than the ones happy or indifferent or waiting to try it out.

Actually, the first reception might be "noted" by TFP, but maybe as an indication that a feature will meet heavy prejudice. The sensible thing would be to even wait much longer after release before feedback is considered. Is that what you wanted to recommend to TFP? :fat:

The walls of text running in circles arguing with each others opinions is getting a little old guys.

We all like to argue until our tongues hang out :jaded: Welcome to our personal groundhog day and thank you for your argument :smile-new:

 

[SylenThunder]

We all like to argue until our tongues hang out :jaded: Welcome to our personal groundhog day and thank you for your argument :smile-new:

Well, if it doesn't stop, the discussion will get shut down.

It's not constructive at all.

 

[Shiana]

Seriously, SylenThunder, you are one of the worst mods ever. First calling a user "dim" because YOU didn't read/understand my whole post ("almost" no loot at first, the second no loot is clearly an exaggeration after that first call), and then threathening to close a discussion in a forum because its a ... (non constructive) discussion?

Go out for a smoke - or whatelse, and COOL DOWN. Else you might get a heart attack by reading the posts in this forum....

 

[Jedo]

Well, if it doesn't stop, the discussion will get shut down.
It's not constructive at all.

I respectfully lodge my disagreement. Incremental gains. Do what you must.

Seriously, SylenThunder, you are one of the worst mods ever. First calling a user "dim" because YOU didn't read/understand my whole post ("almost" no loot at first, the second no loot is clearly an exaggeration after that first call), and then threathening to close a discussion in a forum because its a ... (non constructive) discussion?
Go out for a smoke - or whatelse, and COOL DOWN. Else you might get a heart attack by reading the posts in this forum....

*ahem* SylenThunder didn't call you dim. Another user did that. (I tend to agree with that user on this point, but that's a different matter.)

At any rate, SylenThunder probably is correct about the futility here. I see that reason is no cure for ignorance, and certainly a poor remedy for an emotionally-driven argument. I mean, just look at the new thread which has popped up, attempting to rehash the same thing again, grounded still in opinions and poor reasoning. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?86663-Why-TFP-keep-heading-down-the-wrong-design-paths

Alas, I had high hopes.

 

[skullpoker]

To be honest, you don't see survivors looting zombies in any movie or tv series like the Walking Dead, maybe very rarely, as far as I've seen in the walking dead. I agree, zombies should be a threat, not some loot containers. Those kids that don't like the change, they just love to make a drama out of it....like "Now nobody is going to like the game, they will lose all their players....blah blah blah etc..."

Well, sometimes. In Z Nation they sometimes have to find a specific person, probably undead, to get some item that they need to advance the plot. By the same token, most people in the world have coins, keys, credit cards, or other items in their possession that could be useful as scrap metals, scrap plastic, possibly a construction worker carrying hammers, wrenches, etc...

So in that sense, scarce loot or backpacks popping out of a corpse is immersion breaking. That Biker wasn't wearing a backpack, where did that come from?

 

[Jedo]

So in that sense, scarce loot or backpacks popping out of a corpse is immersion breaking. That Biker wasn't wearing a backpack, where did that come from?

A non-immersive implementation of the idea does not negate the fact that the idea is immersive in itself.

 

[Tin]

Seriously, SylenThunder, you are one of the worst mods ever. First calling a user "dim" because YOU didn't read/understand my whole post ("almost" no loot at first, the second no loot is clearly an exaggeration after that first call), and then threathening to close a discussion in a forum because its a ... (non constructive) discussion?
Go out for a smoke - or whatelse, and COOL DOWN. Else you might get a heart attack by reading the posts in this forum....

Why do you need to "Exaggerate"?

Why not state it for what it is?

YOU and others, want more loot from the zeds.

or

YOU and others, want the loot amount to remain the same.. then followed with the reason why.

Every time someone "Exaggerates" that zeds "don't drop loot anymore", which is false. It brings more ppl in, thinking there's no loot drops from the zeds. This thread has 16 pages already and most ppl are going to skim the posts. When most of the post are ppl exaggerating "there isn't any loot drops from zeds", it brings in more ppl to correct the "exaggeration" that they know will be jumped on by some.

You know this happens, you just accused Syl of just skimming posts and getting it wrong.

That's the cycle that keeps happening and it's not constructive.. there's no need to "Exaggerate" anything about zeds dropping loot or not dropping loot, They will still drop loot.. just not as often as you and others would like.

 

[SylenThunder]

I wasn't even skimming either. A large number of the people against the change, seem to have absolutely no grasp of the overall scope of it.

Their very words state "no more loot". Their comments are largely based on assumptions that there will no be any other balancing. That there is no other way to obtain the items except to get them from zombie loot.

These are all closed-minded emotional responses. They have no real value.

What's even worse is that you're all acting like it's "set in stone". They aren't done. You don't even know what other changes they have implemented.

It's not like this is new news either. The idea of zombie corpses going away was shown to us way back near the beginning of a17 development.

A further note, is that there will still be your loot drop rate option. You don't like the reduction turn that up. You don't like that, you can easily mod the game. You don't feel like figuring out how to mod? Give it a couple of weeks and someone will have one for you.

What about discussing the fact that this is a survival game? Less loot makes more sense to me.

As a last note, both Shiana and DragonFyre bring up a very good point. This game isn't designed for 60% of the servers out there. This game is designed for 8-player co-op. This is no an MMO. This is not PubG, Battlefield, COD, or what have you. It your own fault for going outside of what the game is designed for when you have issue that relate directly to those issues. If you have a lack of loot because there are 60 people playing on the server, then you have too many people playing on the server. I know this isn't news to you guys. I've been saying it for a long time.

 

[Jedo]

I regret my walls of text, SylenThunder. Teach me your ways of being concise. That post was a masterwork in getting straight to the heart of things.

Of course, I expect some replies explaining why their particular perspective/articulation is different from what you said.

 

[SylenThunder]

I regret my walls of text, SylenThunder. Teach me your ways of being concise. That post was a masterwork in getting straight to the heart of things.
Of course, I expect some replies explaining why their particular perspective/articulation is different from what you said.

“Yes, a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

– Yoda




Sorry, we're straying from the topic. I couldn't resist.

 

[Gamida]

I don't seem the harm in any kind of discussion as long as it is civil. Isn't that the whole point of a forum. People will disagree for sure but if no one disagrees then it would be pretty boring in here . Again it has to be civil. You never know, you could end up agreeing with somethings you didn't think you would. Besides, a good discussion helps keep the mind off other things (release of update) and helps pass the time.

...aaaaaaand continue...

 

[Roland]

I just want to take an opportunity to disagree with SylenThunder since such opportunities come along so rarely.

A better way to test the new system is to just refrain from looting any zombies but keep loot at 100%. Give that a go just like how people do dead is dead of their own volition. Deny yourself all zombie loot and see how it plays. Then just imagine getting a tiny bit more than that. At the very least it will get you warmed up to the new normal (until it changes again)

Oh, and as a side benefit if you find you just don’t have the will power to stop yourself from checking those corpses then you’ll know you have a problem and maybe you need A17 to help you get that monkey off your back.

 

[Gamida]

Oh, and as a side benefit if you find you just don’t have the will power to stop yourself from checking those corpses then you’ll know you have a problem and maybe you need A17 to help you get that monkey off your back.

That sucks. Isn't that like having a drug problem but not being able to get the drugs to take that edge off...

(Note: Drugs are bad, Mkay)

 

[Roland]

That sucks. Isn't that like having a drug problem but not being able to get the drugs to take that edge off...

(Note: Drugs are bad, Mkay)

That’s what retrievable arrows are....

 

[Colin248]

I just want to take an opportunity to disagree with SylenThunder since such opportunities come along so rarely.
A better way to test the new system is to just refrain from looting any zombies but keep loot at 100%. Give that a go just like how people do dead is dead of their own volition. Deny yourself all zombie loot and see how it plays. Then just imagine getting a tiny bit more than that. At the very least it will get you warmed up to the new normal (until it changes again)

Oh, and as a side benefit if you find you just don’t have the will power to stop yourself from checking those corpses then you’ll know you have a problem and maybe you need A17 to help you get that monkey off your back.

oo.... that hit me all the wrong ways.

you know this reminds me of a game called the culling. where the designers decided to change what the game was in massive ways and expected people to like it. to just adapt. by changing it to the point people couldn't recognise it. altho they released culling 2 and that was just a realy ♥♥♥♥ty battle royal chaseing genre game, and completely alien to the first, thus killing off a any goodwill from remaining fans. off topic but still, might be worth bringing up.

my worry is that with this kind of a attitude Roland, funpimps are gona keep changing things with the base game till it isnt 7 days to die anymore. the game we have loved all this time. and they just expect us to deal with it, to adapt with the blows. go ask the culling fans what they did when the devs expected there fanbase to just flow with it.

 

[bloom_meister]

I don't seem the harm in any kind of discussion as long as it is civil. Isn't that the whole point of a forum. People will disagree for sure but if no one disagrees then it would be pretty boring in here . Again it has to be civil. You never know, you could end up agreeing with somethings you didn't think you would. Besides, a good discussion helps keep the mind off other things (release of update) and helps pass the time.
...aaaaaaand continue...

Sylen doesnt like any 'off message' discussions on gameplay and design even though this very topic is to discuss the...gameplay and design of A17...

Now if you want to post multiple times how everything is wonderful and in Fun Pimps we trust I can assure you, there will be zero problems

To be honest Sylen should look at Roland, thats a constructive, non aggressive, firm and yet humorous way to manage the sheep (I include myself in that)

 

[Roland]

I was just giving a better method of testing it. The largest chunk of voters say they are reserving judgement until they can try it. So go try it voluntarily right now in A16. Report back on whether refraining from looting zombies changed 7 Days to Die beyond all recognition for you.

At least that is a better foundation to place a soap box before standing up and preaching the Truth about what is good or bad game design. Then again my own soap box is firmly planted on the foundation of my own personal experience with it but that apparently is of no consequence to those who would rather rest upon speculation, worry, accusation, and guesses about what it will be like.

TFP have always moved to their own tune since the beginning. They always wanted this to be an open voxel world with crafting (Minecraft) Role Playing (Fallout) Zombie survival (The Walking Dead) game. The elevator pitch included those three parenthetical inspirations. The change in the zombie loot is definitely a step toward the Zombie Survival side of things.