PC An A17 Experimental Metaphor

TFP: Welcome to the TFP kitchen. Today we are going to make French Toast.
EVERYONE: Yeah! We're so happy to be here and watch you make this delicious dish. We like eating but we are also very interested in watching the cooking process and being part of it.

POOJAM: French Toast is fine for some but donut holes are way better for throwing at each other. Make donut holes instead.

TFP: We may get to donut holes later but for now we are making French Toast. We'll start with these eggs.

EVERYONE: OOOOooooo those are xtra large and beautiful.

POOJAM: We could throw those you know if you'd let us....

JAX: I've said it before and I'll say it again TFP are among the FINEST developers on the planet. I've ALWAYS respected Joel's vision and these eggs we see before us now are a PERFECT example of that.

*** TFP proceeds to crack six eggs open and dump the contents into a bowl***

SOME: Woah! We loved those eggs and now they're broken! Why, TFP, Why!?!?!

JAX: I hate to bring up criticism but the direction that these broken shells on the countertop CLEARLY show is a direction I can no longer support. It truly is SAD when developers make these sorts of decisions. Maintaining unbroken eggs is clearly more difficult than all-ready broken eggs.

TFP: Guys, we broke the eggs because we are going to blend them up in this brand new blender we upgraded to and we wouldn't want shells mixed in with the yummy eggy parts.

EVERYONE: Coooool Blender! And yes we understand that you had to break some eggs to make your French Toast. Blend away!

JAX: FAITH RESTORED! Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my early remarks but it is only because THIS breakfast and THESE chefs are my favorites!

TFP: Okay, now take a look at this milk we have coming out of the fridge!

EVERYONE: OOOOooooooo that milk looks so cold and tasty.

POOJAM: I can already predict that TFP is stupidly NOT going to let us squirt it at each other!

TFP: Okay, there isn't going to be any milk squirting today but watch this...

*** TFP pours the milk into the blended eggs ***

SOME: EWWWWW! Milk and Raw Eggs mixed together?!?! How is that delicious? We thought there was going to be oreo dunking and what dev in their right mind thought it would be a good idea to dunk an oreo into an egg/milk mixture. Its all ruined!

GRONK: Some bipolar dev can't help himself to just wreck something just as it is brought out in perfect form.

JAX: The writing is DEFINITELY on the wall. Who wants to drink EGGMILK? It doesn't take someone going into a donut shop and ordering some milk to know how they like to drink milk. ALL FAITH LOST that TFP will be going in the right direction now.

TFP: The milk wasn't for drinking. We mix it with the eggs and add some cinnamon and a bit of nutmeg and use it as a dip for the next ingredient so we can cook up our French Toast. Now look at this nice big loaf of Texas Toast bread slices.

EVERYONE: OOOOOOOooooo that is some thick bread you got there Madmole!

****Five pages of double entrendres ensue****

POOJAM: TFP is only showing bread at this point to distract all you sheep from the fact that French Toast is boring and bland!

JAX: This makes so much SENSE now that we understand that the eggmilk wasn't to be drunk. I see so many more possibilities ahead for what can be done with such a mixture OTHER than drinking. TFP shows their GENIUS again!

***TFP dips a slice of bread into the mixture***

SOME: Uh....that bread is kinda soggy. Seems pretty gross. TFP expects us to eat soggy eggy bread? THIS is what they call "toast"?

JAX: For YEARS now I've contributed various toppings to enhance the breakfast TFP has been working on. Mrs Ravenhearst Syrup is WIDELY regarded as one of the best enhancements to french toast but I just can no LONGER support this continual development process of one step forward and TWO STEPS BACK. The cooked french toast we had last week was WAY better than this sloppy soggy mess in front of us.

TFP: Well, hang on because we have the griddle warming up still over here....

tldr: There really is a difference between not getting it and grokking the development process and letting things play out without over-reacting to each and every step of the way. Sure, you can give whatever version of feedback you want to give but it gets pretty comical.

/condescending +20 ;)
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I didnt make the cut :(

 
Mercy Snip
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Any other time I would laugh along with this joke. But the fact you keep insisting that my criticism means I no longer support the Pimps or the game or that I'M somehow in the wrong for not enjoying the direction of this Alpha or that I just don't "get it" tells me everything I need to know. The fact we cant even have an honest conversation about it is worse.

I'm ok being the scapegoat. Joke away at my expense and everyone else's expense who are disappointed. Embrace the love and the praise. I've always been told its ok to be critical as long as it's done respectfully. I think my initial post was pretty respectful. The responses I got have been not.

Im not about to become a jaded hater because of this forum. My post was a heartfelt letter to Joel and the Pimps. I honestly wish i could just pick his brain a bit, get his insight etc. This is my only avenue to do so, so I tried. But if Im now lumped into a category of other people who have been actually disrespectful to the Pimps in the past, even insulting then this is a community I no longer need to be a part of.

News Flash: Some people HATE my mod, think its garbage. But I don't make multi paragraph posts with the intention of making them feel stupid for having an opinion in the first place, and I would NEVER be dismissive of well thought out criticism. But what do I know? Im just a number, and a hater.

 
Any other time I would laugh along with this joke. But the fact you keep insisting that my criticism means I no longer support the Pimps or the game or that I'M somehow in the wrong for not enjoying the direction of this Alpha or that I just don't "get it" tells me everything I need to know. The fact we cant even have an honest conversation about it is worse.
I'm ok being the scapegoat. Joke away at my expense and everyone else's expense who are disappointed. Embrace the love and the praise. I've always been told its ok to be critical as long as it's done respectfully. I think my initial post was pretty respectful. The responses I got have been not.

Im not about to become a jaded hater because of this forum. My post was a heartfelt letter to Joel and the Pimps. I honestly wish i could just pick his brain a bit, get his insight etc. This is my only avenue to do so, so I tried. But if Im now lumped into a category of other people who have been actually disrespectful to the Pimps in the past, even insulting then this is a community I no longer need to be a part of.

News Flash: Some people HATE my mod, think its garbage. But I don't make multi paragraph posts with the intention of making them feel stupid for having an opinion in the first place, and I would NEVER be dismissive of well thought out criticism. But what do I know? Im just a number, and a hater.
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Maybe I misread his post, but I don't think you were depicted as a hater, not explicitly nor implicitly. I suppose it's up to you to interpret it that way.

I think he is making light of your extremely large opinions because you are stating them during an experimental build, not even a stable release, i.e. a knee-jerk reaction. Maybe some of the latest build decisions are not to your liking, or previous ones. But the fact remains that it's still experimental and being tweaked and changed daily, so making a big post about how very saddened and disappointed you are of how it's all going to hell is overreacting. Proof of it is how you've already made long posts criticizing a change and then other posts praising them for changing it for the better during this same experimental.

Save all those words for when it's stable if you're still disappointed, and in the meantime, focus your energy into doing specific, concise criticisms or suggestions of individual changes to help them out, because so far I haven't seen you trying to contribute that way (but then I might be misremembering, with so much stuff going on in the forum).

 
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Is it just me or is it possible that most of Roland's reputation is just other people misinterpreting his attempt at lightening the mood/making a joke?

 
Maybe I misread his post, but I don't think you were depicted as a hater, not explicitly nor implicitly. I suppose it's up to you to interpret it that way.
I think he is making light of your extremely large opinions because you are stating them during an experimental build, not even a stable release, i.e. a knee-jerk reaction. Maybe some of the latest build decisions are not to your liking, or previous ones. But the fact remains that it's still experimental and being tweaked and changed daily, so making a big post about how very saddened and disappointed you are of how it's all going to hell is overreacting. Proof of it is how you've already made long posts criticizing a change and then other posts praising them for changing it for the better during this same experimental.

Save all those words for when it's stable if you're still disappointed, and in the meantime, focus your energy into doing specific, concise criticisms or suggestions of individual changes to help them out, because so far I haven't seen you trying to contribute that way (but then I might be misremembering, with so much stuff going on in the forum).
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I'm a nobody around here so am hesitant to say anything in this thread but casul observation incoming anyways:

the problem i see with this is that the parody indicated clear communication happened prior to someone questioning the direction. It's not gone as the parody suggested. It's more like being told they're going to make french toast and everyone is down with that, and then instead of using eggs-which everyone expects-they decide to use applesauce until the eggs can be gathered without telling anyone that's what they're doing until there's a flurry of "but...WHY's?" Then the communication happens and in a way that makes everyone feel like they're supposed to feel dumb for questioning it.

I'm just a lowly gamer who, if it goes in a direction i don't like-will just leave. Jax, on the other hand, has invested a crap ton of time and care into fleshing out his understanding of their vision and if it goes in a direction he can't continue to do that with-it's kind of a big deal. So he would be vocal because he's highly invested where those of us who are not-get irritated about the same things but don't bother to say much because ./shrug

So this seems like a pretty trashy way to treat someone who has done so much to keep people hanging in there with the game through all the strange versions of french toast.

 
I think he is making light of your extremely large opinions because you are stating them during an experimental build, not even a stable release, i.e. a knee-jerk reaction. Maybe some of the latest build decisions are not to your liking, or previous ones. But the fact remains that it's still experimental and being tweaked and changed daily, so making a big post about how very saddened and disappointed you are of how it's all going to hell is overreacting. Proof of it is how you've already made long posts criticizing a change and then other posts praising them for changing it for the better during this same experimental.
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I think Drithyl (and Roland) have the right of it, Jax, because I remember you doing the same thing before A16. You really didn't like the direction of something (I think you even led a #gate or two), then you came back trying to rally people under the banner of In Pimps We Trust. It's okay to admit that sometimes you lose faith in Joel but that TFP probably will get it right (i.e., to your liking) in the end.

 
I'm a nobody around here so am hesitant to say anything in this thread but casul observation incoming anyways:
the problem i see with this is that the parody indicated clear communication happened prior to someone questioning the direction. It's not gone as the parody suggested. It's more like being told they're going to make french toast and everyone is down with that, and then instead of using eggs-which everyone expects-they decide to use applesauce until the eggs can be gathered without telling anyone that's what they're doing until there's a flurry of "but...WHY's?" Then the communication happens and in a way that makes everyone feel like they're supposed to feel dumb for questioning it.

I'm just a lowly gamer who, if it goes in a direction i don't like-will just leave. Jax, on the other hand, has invested a crap ton of time and care into fleshing out his understanding of their vision and if it goes in a direction he can't continue to do that with-it's kind of a big deal. So he would be vocal because he's highly invested where those of us who are not-get irritated about the same things but don't bother to say much because ./shrug

So this seems like a pretty trashy way to treat someone who has done so much to keep people hanging in there with the game through all the strange versions of french toast.
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It's a trashy way to treat someone if you interpret that Roland had a trashy intention while writing it. Of course, only the man himself knows that, but I seriously doubt that was the case. As others pointed out, it's more likely he was trying to lighten the mood.

As far as fleshing out visions go, Jax can take all the time in the world to flesh out his understanding (as you very well put it) of TFP's vision, but it will still remain his own interpretation of what their vision is. He will never be able to truly know what's in their mind, so getting upset about them appearing to not be loyal to their own vision seems a bit weird. And as I said, he can be disappointed with the differences between what he thought was their vision and their actual vision, but that should happen once the vision is established, i.e. once they have finished it and said "okay, we're satisfied with the status quo, this is our game". In the meantime, I see it as much more productive both for the devs and for him to try to steer them in the direction of his liking with his own ideas and suggestions and criticisms.

 
So this seems like a pretty trashy way to treat someone who has done so much to keep people hanging in there with the game through all the strange versions of french toast.
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Indeed it is :(

 
Save all those words for when it's stable .
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Of course they want this. Because that's when nothing can be done about it. Let me ask you, should everyone who hated the perk level requirements, or the stamina drain also have not said anything? What about the builders who could not build due to no forge pre level 20?

Were THEY told to wait to stable and see how it goes. Its tiring hearing that kind of response even from higher ups when you have criticism of something that the collective does not agree is a problem.

I'm not dooming the game to oblivion. But as of right now, if this went to stable, in my opinion it would be awful. Maybe you don't agree and that's fine but that does not mean I have to wait until stable to offer my opinion, when no one will read it and no one will care because its stable.

 
Is it just me or is it possible that most of Roland's reputation is just other people misinterpreting his attempt at lightening the mood/making a joke?
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The problem is that Roland has the habit of writing (trolish) posts at other peoples expense. When people are upset or question issues, being all cavalier about it, makes it only seem like more insult upon injury.

 
Is it just me or is it possible that most of Roland's reputation is just other people misinterpreting his attempt at lightening the mood/making a joke?
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Yeh, but that's really true of most negatives/hearsays about others...

The people love the drama!

 
It's a trashy way to treat someone if you interpret that Roland had a trashy intention while writing it. Of course, only the man himself knows that, but I seriously doubt that was the case. As others pointed out, it's more likely he was trying to lighten the mood.
As far as fleshing out visions go, Jax can take all the time in the world to flesh out his understanding (as you very well put it) of TFP's vision, but it will still remain his own interpretation of what their vision is. He will never be able to truly know what's in their mind, so getting upset about them appearing to not be loyal to their own vision seems a bit weird. And as I said, he can be disappointed with the differences between what he thought was their vision and their actual vision, but that should happen once the vision is established, i.e. once they have finished it and said "okay, we're satisfied with the status quo, this is our game". In the meantime, I see it as much more productive both for the devs and for him to try to steer them in the direction of his liking with his own ideas and suggestions and criticisms.
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As Jax stated-if he waited until then it woud be too late. It would be signed, sealed and delivered. And a lot of people would vanish without a word as to why. I would SO much rather it be questioned in the process than to keep hanging in there for months (years actually, now) waiting for it to all suddenly make sense but it just never does

 
The problem is that Roland has the habit of writing (trolish) posts at other peoples expense. When people are upset or question issues, being all cavalier about it, makes it only seem like more insult upon injury.
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So voice your complaint, and if it seems ignored then move along... Its not like this is the general hospital or the public library.

Why try to enforce your agenda, just because you deem it pc. God I hate pc...

 
It's a trashy way to treat someone if you interpret that Roland had a trashy intention while writing it. Of course, only the man himself knows that, but I seriously doubt that was the case. As others pointed out, it's more likely he was trying to lighten the mood.
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I don't think him mocking me by saying "oh yeah jax we know you're mad now but you're already writing that post of blind praise like you always do" is good natured fun. Its a direct attempt to discredit everything I posted by tossing it out the window as just "another silly jax rant, move along". There's a time for poking fun and a time for discussion but both of his replies to my rather heartfelt and respectful opinion on xperimental so far was to basically point and laugh at me.

Which has now directly influenced my opinion of this entire company as he is the face of it presently. And I know no one cares in the slightest, as i said i'm just a number. But for the first time in my 2 plus years here I get the feeling debate is no longer allowed. Im not the only poster this has happened to. Because if you don't tow the company line you'll be made fun of, and mocked and basically discredited. If you didn't like my post then ignore it like you usually do. If you think I'm wrong tell me why. I'll respect that. Ill engage.

Anyway Im done derailing this thread. Id appreciate if no one responded to any of what I just said. I don't want to further continue this argument here. It's not the place for it. It just sucks you can't actually criticize something here without the Breakfast Club joining rings and activating "Defense Mode Power".

 
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I don't think him mocking me by saying "oh yeah jax we know you're mad now but you're already writing that post of blind praise like you always do" is good natured fun. Its a direct attempt to discredit everything I posted by tossing it out the window as just "another silly jax rant, move along". There's a time for poking fun and a time for discussion but both of his replies to my rather heartfelt and respectful opinion on xperimental so far was to basically point and laugh at me.
Which has now directly influenced my opinion of this entire company as he is the face of it presently. And I know no one cares in the slightest, as i said i'm just a number. But for the first time in my 2 plus years here I get the feeling debate is no longer allowed. Im not the only poster this has happened to. Because if you don't tow the company line you'll be made fun of, and mocked and basically discredited. If you didn't like my post then ignore it like you usually do. If you think I'm wrong tell me why. I'll respect that. Ill engage.

Anyway Im done derailing this thread. Id appreciate if no one responded to any of what I just said. I don't want to further continue this argument here. It's not the place for it. It just sucks you can't actually criticize something here without the Breakfast Club joining rings and activating "Defense Mode Power".
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Yep, doesn't matter what they do - the Fun Pimps Cheerleading Squad will always be here shaking their pom poms for them!

 
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