PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

I don't see your point, sorry. Maybe be I misunderstood, but are you saying that in your group only one person opens containers?  :suspicious:

So you never spread out in a big POI and always wait for the PER guy to come open any container you find?
Nobody ever opens a container for me no matter their gamestage. Letting some top gamestage perception maxed player open your stuff for you is basically playing with the creative menu enabled. I like to progress through the stages of scavenging rather than have some buddy of mine help me skip it. 
 

And if someone berates me for opening a container because I’m not the top level dude then I don’t play with that guy any more. There are some things more important than min/maxing loot containers…

 
Roland said:
This just goes to show you are not well suited to play a game that is still in development. The devs have always had an overall vision for what they want to do with the details being subject to experimentation and iterative development. For example, they always knew they would have characters progress in skills and abilities like an RPG. Did they know exactly how they would implement that goal? Not exactly which is why it has undergone several iterations.  Some people have a hard time seeing the evolution and so they think one whole system was completely replaced by another whole system but that is not true. Everything the game is today is because of evolving systems through experimenting and problem solving. But, again, some people look at something like LBD and think that 7 Days to Die was always envisioned as an LBD game but then the devs abandoned that and changed their game.

No. This was never an LBD game. It was always a game about character progression and LBD was the method used during one part of the evolution. 
 

There are plenty of games that use early access to crowd fund their already practically finished game after having done most of the development work behind closed doors. This studio actually began early access with their game at an extremely early stage and have come a long way. 
 

It is finally at the stage at which most other studios start thinking about putting their offerings out for early access. Maybe it was a mistake for them to have opened up their development versions from such an early stage but I’m glad they did. It has been very interesting to witness the journey. If A1-A19 had all been done privately and A20 was the first time it came to early access you would have no knowledge of all the changes that happened.

No it’s not. When developers do what the modders are doing it is called scope creep. The developers have very specific goals they are sticking to whereas modders have no restrictions. The devs have a standard of quality they have to maintain so that a wide range of configurations can access the game at a reasonable level of performance whereas modders are forgiven if not everything works 100%  

The devs are trying to finish the basic version of the game that will be what brand new players purchase once it is released. Modders can cater to veterans who are bored with the fundamental version and want more challenges and more content beyond the scope of the base game. 
 

It really shouldn’t be difficult to understand this unless you don’t understand the overall model of playing a game early while it is still in full development mode. 
 

Your comments reveal that you really don’t get that this game is unfinished and the devs are working to get the 1.0 version finished. It shows that you emotionally consider this game fully released and the devs should be working on expansion and dlc content to extend the gameplay so that those of us who have played everything can have more to do. 
 

Hope that clears up your confusion so that what is happening no longer boggles your mind. With the correct view of what development means it is pretty simple to understand. 




A very arrogant point of view imo. I played my hours and i consider my money well invested, many times fold actually. My point is that it seems to go in different directions. If they have a vision already, does this take 10y? I don't think so, otherwise would be the same with everyother game of the same genre. 

You refer that "It is finally at the stage at which most other studios start thinking about putting their offerings out for early access." this for itself shows one of my biggest issues and i couldn't have said it better.

You have a good point when you say that: "No it’s not. When developers do what the modders are doing it is called scope creep. The developers have very specific goals they are sticking to whereas modders have no restrictions. The devs have a standard of quality they have to maintain so that a wide range of configurations can access the game at a reasonable level of performance whereas modders are forgiven if not everything works 100%  ". My question is, if they have those very specific goals would they take 10y? I strongly disagree.

"It really shouldn’t be difficult to understand this unless you don’t understand the overall model of playing a game early while it is still in full development mode. " - you are right and wrong, i don't find it difficult to understand, i do find, with the popularity of this game and money it generated (now i am just assuming since it sold so much) that it would take 10y of development to still be in this state.

"Your comments reveal that you really don’t get that this game is unfinished and the devs are working to get the 1.0 version finished.". Quite the contrary, my comments are based on that exact context. I do not "emotionally consider this game fully released", my critics are exactly about the opposite, it feels very far from being released in such a big time frame.

I hope this clears up your confusion to what i am actually addressing. 

This said i am happy with what the game gave me, entertainment-wise, and all the hours i managed to put into it, i just hope it doesn't take another decade to actually reach it's final destination.

 
A very arrogant point of view imo
It’s not arrogance. You are coming from assumptions speculation and opinion. I’m coming from actual knowledge. I have access to all team meetings, work flow logs, and every build for every alpha. I don’t say this to brag but simply so that people will know that rather than me giving my own speculation that sounds arrogant if you think it’s just my opinion, I’m giving facts. 
 

This said i am happy with what the game gave me, entertainment-wise, and all the hours i managed to put into it, i just hope it doesn't take another decade to actually reach it's final destination.
If this is so, why are you so focused on them finishing quickly?  If the journey so far has been great why demand an end? What is objectively wrong with working on the game for 10 years especially since there has been no period of abandonment or unresponsiveness. The development has been constant. 

 
Ahoy mate! There be zombie sharks in this water....

I am also happy with my $/Hr investment in this game. Very much so. And no, I have not always been cool with the changes during its progression from Alpha to Alpha release, and have stepped back for a while to await what the next iteration would offer.

Ideally, well, its just not ideal, ok? Creative people are often times fickle. And the artist will paint over what they have brushed in beforehand. Did you happen to see in this week's news where they discovered a 'new' Van Gogh self portrait? It was hidden under an existing artwork. He still had two ears in that image too. Lol.

I have never met Roland, nor know if he has both ears, but he usually seems to be quite forthright with his replies. And tends to respond in kind. 

Best not to throw stones into the water. It wastes your time and annoys the sharks.

Load up a new mod, start a new session and wait for the release of A21. Might want to get a small pile of rocks anyways, if it makes ya feel better. 

 
Are there any changes to driveable vehicles planned? I see models for new vehicles of all types, but they appear to be the scrappable derelicts.

I'm just wondering how much effort to put into a vehicle mod before A21 release.

 
Are there any changes to driveable vehicles planned? I see models for new vehicles of all types, but they appear to be the scrappable derelicts.

I'm just wondering how much effort to put into a vehicle mod before A21 release.
AFAIK, they're simply meant to replace the single sedan that apparently was the only car available for purchase in Arizona prior to the apocalypse.

Sarcasm aside, @faatal did mention that the 3D models are not built in a way to be drivable by the player.

 
There's nothing to know besides history.  Jars or lack of jars doesn't affect the ability to get water one bit.  

...I suppose there were those freaks who would boil water directly in a jar but why?  Pots are plentiful.

If they're planning on limiting pots, they will still be plentiful.  

Water has *never* been a problem in the game and I suspect, despite their protestations, it still ultimately won't be.  

These dew collectors just replace any hardship their was. 
I'm sure both faatal and Roland are just fools then, you're clearly the best player here, and all the water hardships they told us about are just them being noobs I guess.

 
I'm sure both faatal and Roland are just fools then, you're clearly the best player here, and all the water hardships they told us about are just them being noobs I guess.
Finally.  Some acknowledgement.

... developers tend to play the game how they think it should be played.  They don't do what a seasoned player does.  

This game hasn't been challenging from a survival aspect for many alphas.

 
This game hasn't been challenging from a survival aspect for many alphas.


Yet you're opposed to the removal of glass jars? While certainly an odd choice from a realistic perspective, it definitely sounds like it will increase survival difficulty.

Now you won't be able to fill up 125 glass jars at a lake or swimming pool, boil them, and not have to worry about thirst for the rest of the apocalypse.

 
Why is it, if an "issue" is identified, the go-to resolution is often "Let's just remove it."


Perhaps this decision was made due to the fact that the water in 7 Days To Die will never get fluid, as in MineCraft, due to the fact that it is very expensive for PC resources. And if water can't be turned into water, and infinite water is OP, it makes sense to forbid players to interact with it, so that players do not create holes in it by collecting 500 cans at a time. Do you think this is logical?

 
Finally.  Some acknowledgement.

... developers tend to play the game how they think it should be played.  They don't do what a seasoned player does.
You could have a point if the "developers" were the only ones testing the game... but

What about Roland? (he's not a dev, and he's an expert player)

What about the QA guys?

What about sunrise? What about rain? What about all the things that you said we were to gain?

 
Perhaps this decision was made due to the fact that the water in 7 Days To Die will never get fluid, as in MineCraft, due to the fact that it is very expensive for PC resources. And if water can't be turned into water, and infinite water is OP, it makes sense to forbid players to interact with it, so that players do not create holes in it by collecting 500 cans at a time. Do you think this is logical?
Collecting wate rdoesn't deplete the block though with cans/jars. Only buckets do that

 
Moot point... players CAN create holes in water.
So? From what I can tell, the change is happening because water (as in the survival item) is too easy to get. It's a super drastic change when just adding some extra purification steps would do the job.

Like... 1 extra item and 1-2 extra recipes rather than a full new block (which means more models, more textures, more RAM usage) and having to interact with that to get your water.

Hell they REMOVED boiled water needing a cooking pot to be made, which made water MUCH easier to get. Could've just put that back and then Roland (sorry Roland!) would be back to drinking murky water  due to lack of pot.

 
Yet you're opposed to the removal of glass jars? While certainly an odd choice from a realistic perspective, it definitely sounds like it will increase survival difficulty.

Now you won't be able to fill up 125 glass jars at a lake or swimming pool, boil them, and not have to worry about thirst for the rest of the apocalypse.
Because it doesn't do *anything* to increase difficulty.  It's just an unnecessary removal that makes it weird. 

What you really said is:

This game hasn't been challenging from a survival aspect for me, since the last couple of hundreds of hours I played the game I know inside out.

See the difference?
Absolutely.  But you may want to look at the post I was responding to.  

 
You could have a point if the "developers" were the only ones testing the game... but

What about Roland? (he's not a dev, and he's an expert player)

What about the QA guys?

What about sunrise? What about rain? What about all the things that you said we were to gain?
You brought up faatal (a developer) and Roland (a person with access to the design so is going to play with an unconscious bias), not me.

Besides, I'm only arguing that removing bottles is weird and does nothing for water survival.  Roland said pots are required to purify water, which means you will still find murky water, so unless there's something they still haven't told us, we will still be swimming in water.  Pun intended.

...also, did you note that faatal said he was just thirsty for 3 days?  Big whoop. Not exactly game changing.   Early game is supposed to be hard. 

If water ends up being challenging, like, for real, players will adapt and just focus on looting sinks (or whatever has it in a21) to get the pot.  They'll still have it on day 1. 

Find a town, break through the wall of the kitchen, loot sink, repeat.  Since there isn't a zombie threat outside, and since sleepers although cool aren't exactly hard to avoid, you'll get your pot.  

Sure, I could make it harder on myself by "role playing" and following the lights in the stupid dungeon design (what was once a great feature is now overused), but then again I could poke my eye out with a stick too.  But why would I. 

Besides.  If water suddenly becomes hard to acquire, the casuals will complain and they will make it easy again.  

But that's all moot.  The removal of the returning jar is weird. 

 
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