PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[POCKET951]

RWG has come a huge way this last alpha, but yeah, I've been curious if TFP intends for traders to always be on that same plot, or if this is transitory until more trader-supporting RWG zones are added.  I have a hunch that half of all A20 bases are built on that same empty field opposite the trader.  :suspicion:

 Honestly some citys feel like they need 2 traders, or someway to ask for more quest if you aren't  admin.

trader quest diversity is better in A20 because we get 5 tiers to choose from.

but then these 5 quest in tiers 1-4 cycle through about the same 10-20 Pois over and over and over.

Yes I can go to the Pois and just clear them, but I want to be able to reset every POI in the city with a quest if I want to, and that just isn't possible atm outside of playing 30 hours for a reset

I am not sure what the solution would be like, but I would really like more POI diversity from traders

 

[Matt115]

Wonder how the bandits/npc will work in A21.

will the melee ones just charge at you like a zombies and do nothing to protect themselves, are they going too do moves that we can't like Blocking and dodging
and i really hope the ranged bandits aren't going to be some 360 No scope level of aim 

I know some things madmole said they will not do, like drive cars and such and thats good... no need to be level 1 then a truck hits you 
 

Well this would be logical about melee ones because even techland with $$$$$$$$$ , actors etc make this bad in non voxel game. 

Well this depends on guns i think how accuraty they will be

 

[Crater Creator]

city tile rwg is good but there are still weird things generated. roads stopping, roads in circles around tiles then 3 of them in a row where the roads do not meet or merge but run alongside. hopefully the city RWG get a bit of a tickle as well as everything outside the city. 

@Crater Creator  my base is in the field at the t intersection next to the trader. i always find some sort of camp across the road from the trader entrance... 

Mmm. I’ve seen small POIs spawn across the road from the trader entrance, but 75% of the time it’s been a vacant lot. A very particular vacant lot I notice, with bumps in the terrain in the same spots when building there.  Meanwhile, I decided the other side of the T intersection was a good place to plant a forest.

 

[Crater Creator]

 Honestly some citys feel like they need 2 traders, or someway to ask for more quest if you aren't  admin.

trader quest diversity is better in A20 because we get 5 tiers to choose from.

but then these 5 quest in tiers 1-4 cycle through about the same 10-20 Pois over and over and over.

Yes I can go to the Pois and just clear them, but I want to be able to reset every POI in the city with a quest if I want to, and that just isn't possible atm outside of playing 30 hours for a reset

I am not sure what the solution would be like, but I would really like more POI diversity from traders

Now that each trader is placed in a way that they’re kind of associated with a town, the completionist in me would like to see the trader send you to each POI in that town, comprehensively.  You’d do a quest in each one, and at the end the trader would reward you for taking control of the whole territory.

It would be satisfying in its own right to be ‘done’ with a whole town, but one could also take the idea further.  Imagine completed POIs are colorized on the map, a la Saints Row.  A fence could go up around the border of the town, pre-placed but hidden in the RWG tiles (complete with signage with the town’s name).  Zombie spawns within the town limits could be reduced (i.e. stop spawning any extra zombies that spawn because you’re in town).  If more friendly NPCs are ever added, they could start showing up in cleared towns.

All this could give the player memorable, unique feelings of rebuilding society in the apocalypse.  Unlike most games, it could be done even without a rigid storyline or a static map.

 

[ElDudorino]

It would be satisfying in its own right to be ‘done’ with a whole town, but one could also take the idea further.  Imagine completed POIs are colorized on the map, a la Saints Row.

This is exactly how I've pictured it. I really like the idea, although with maps of limited size you would eventually run out of things to clear (though you could be tasked with defending territories that are under siege).

 

[Matt115]

Please let this be the Alpha where bandits or at least some kind of end game content is added. No matter how better the game got overall, these past alphas really felt like more (or a better version) of the same, and the mid/end game still gets stale fast. 

What do you mean by " end game" ? because in theory it can be T5 POI

 

[Matt115]

I am curious as to how the armor sets are coming along.  Pretty sure you guys are going to lean away from anything that encourages clothes swapping. 

Anything cool like multi-shot arrows, or maybe a legendary that does that? 

When all else fails, rip off stuff that works in other games.  Especially rip off skills and gear from diablo2, lel. 

Or at least do that with the next game, which is probably more fantasy horde. 

Imagine revives, skeletons, fireballs, summons, hammerdins... in a fantasy horde building game. 

Your post sounds like little bit trolling but : 

armor sets is a little bit inaccuracy term... it should be outfit sets. i will give you few example from real world - police riot suit, doctor clothes, hazmat suit, miltary uniform. And more "stereotypical" like typical redneck outfit, miner, hunter , goth etc.  but we use term "armor system" because... this sounds better. So : devs DON'T want to change 7dtd this into skyrim with guns, just simplify clothing system

 

[Crater Creator]

This is exactly how I've pictured it. I really like the idea, although with maps of limited size you would eventually run out of things to clear (though you could be tasked with defending territories that are under siege).

Absolutely!  The devs show interest in doing random events, and one type of random event could be bandits attacking a far-off territory you control, which you have to go over and defend or else lose it.  I think it would be a fun, impromptu challenge to defend a POI you never voluntarily identified as a base.  Or if that's too random, the bandits could target trader POIs specifically, as those have always been designed like defensible bases.

I also don't mind the prospect of running out of new POIs to conquer, and eventually controlling 100% of the territory.  That would be a satisfying long-term goal to pursue, and it could encourage exploring the whole map.  There should still be some types of quests you could do in POIs you control.

 

[bdubyah]

Absolutely!  The devs show interest in doing random events, and one type of random event could be bandits attacking a far-off territory you control, which you have to go over and defend or else lose it.  I think it would be a fun, impromptu challenge to defend a POI you never voluntarily identified as a base.  Or if that's too random, the bandits could target trader POIs specifically, as those have always been designed like defensible bases.

I also don't mind the prospect of running out of new POIs to conquer, and eventually controlling 100% of the territory.  That would be a satisfying long-term goal to pursue, and it could encourage exploring the whole map.  There should still be some types of quests you could do in POIs you control.

Yup, that would be a lot of fun for those who want to do it. And even on a 6k map that would take a while to do. Unless you maybe limit it to towns or even just cities. And could just be an optional thing. Make if so if you own an area there are less zombies/bandits around or something like that. Have little bandit raiding parties once in while like wandering hordes we have now.

 

[Scyris]

Water is making good progress, so there is a good chance it will be in A21.

Would love to see it, might be to early though to show it? I hope it actually flows and stuff instead of being like... Gel like it has been since a16.

Please let this be the Alpha where bandits or at least some kind of end game content is added. No matter how better the game got overall, these past alphas really felt like more (or a better version) of the same, and the mid/end game still gets stale fast. 

I feel we need a new tier of materials above steel, as well as zombies above radiated ones, Maybe mutant ones? Steel has been the top since, well as long as I can remember and I started in A9 or 10 ish. Its about time we get a new tier above that I feel.

I am curious as to how the armor sets are coming along.  Pretty sure you guys are going to lean away from anything that encourages clothes swapping. 

Anything cool like multi-shot arrows, or maybe a legendary that does that? 

When all else fails, rip off stuff that works in other games.  Especially rip off skills and gear from diablo2, lel. 

Or at least do that with the next game, which is probably more fantasy horde. 

Imagine revives, skeletons, fireballs, summons, hammerdins... in a fantasy horde building game. 

Honestly, i'd like to see the skill system redone myself, I'd like all the weapon perks under 1 stat, all the survival stuff under another, then a 3rd category for misc perks. Or, when you loot armor, there is a chance for it to spawn with +1 to a stat. I find the current skill system extremly limiting in single player, as instead of 1 gate in a16.4 we now have 5 gates to get the same perks.

 

[Matt115]

reposting here since this is where the devs will be spending more time from now on.

Wasteland Biome needs revamping

now that the burnt forest has been incorporated into wasteland, it no longer makes sense that the entire wasteland ground is composed of "terrDestroyedStone". this block is understandable around prefabs, in towns, and in cities, but for the wilderness, it makes no sense. never really did. The wilderness sections of wasteland should be "terrBurntForestGround" to make more sense. I mean the trees and grass and what little brush there is grew out of soil. Dropping nukes and burning the ground would not have converted soil to stone and then destroyed the stone.

You incorporated the 2 biomes, Please use them creatively in a way that makes sense and is fun.

It can be explain in "lore stuff" for example : wastelands was big city like NY but military decided to use new "bulding collapse" bomb. They use it and then used a fire bombs (that's how burnt forest was set on fire). But this solution was not enough so they drop nuke bombs to cuts this zone and create radiactivity border

 

[JCrook1028]

Steel has been the top since, well as long as I can remember and I started in A9 or 10 ish. Its about time we get a new tier above that I feel.

Used to have polished steel above steel but it was removed.

 

[NoMan]

Absolutely!  The devs show interest in doing random events, and one type of random event could be bandits attacking a far-off territory you control, which you have to go over and defend or else lose it.  I think it would be a fun, impromptu challenge to defend a POI you never voluntarily identified as a base.  Or if that's too random, the bandits could target trader POIs specifically, as those have always been designed like defensible bases.

I also don't mind the prospect of running out of new POIs to conquer, and eventually controlling 100% of the territory.  That would be a satisfying long-term goal to pursue, and it could encourage exploring the whole map.  There should still be some types of quests you could do in POIs you control.

I have a similar dream for traders which shares most of your concepts but goes a step sideways.

When we complete all of the quests in a trader's area of influence, that would trigger NPCs to "repopulate" the area. They could reopen the businesses we cleared. We could then have a functioning gas station or diner or whatever in reclaimed areas, but this would make them a target for bandits as you describe. Bandit raids would be like a mini horde against armed enemies. If you fail to stop the raid, you have to do a Recapture mission.

 

[Arma Rex]

I already posted something similar to this in the pimp dreams section but Roland are there plans for more damage visuals on zombies (possibly even players) meaning simple things such as slashes from knives or machetes as well as bullet wounds such as holes or flesh wounds of different types?

I've seen it (nominally) done before with blood splotches on regions of the body back in an Alpha 18 mod, but it's pretty preformance heavy. There would need to be some optimizations done, but it's certainly possible.

 

[Matt115]

quick question : any streams are planned after relase A20.4?

 

[Jost Amman]

I already posted something similar to this in the pimp dreams section but Roland are there plans for more damage visuals on zombies (possibly even players) meaning simple things such as slashes from knives or machetes as well as bullet wounds such as holes or flesh wounds of different types?

Isn't body dismemberment good enough for you?  :suspicious:

 

[Matt115]

Isn't body dismemberment good enough for you?  :suspicious:

i love gore! cod waw had so good and plague tale have too - imagine - you hit zombie in stomach with axe and guts go outside it would be perfect!

 

[Rabbitslovecactus]

All the images posted are broken.... Anyone else have that?  @Roland

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

Isn't body dismemberment good enough for you?  :suspicious:

Dismemberment as an idea is nice, but have you seen the animations?

They are bad. Horrifically bad. Decapitating zombie Steve for example - no swinging of a machete but with the vertical chop of an axe...

...how does the animation play? The body dropping and the head; upright, pops off and sort of jumps up in the air before falling straight down...

Then there is the absurd half head missing model with the dodgy eyes and the comedy death look with the sticky out tongue. It's quite embarrassing really - I just hope those things are in as temporary stuff ready for a more gory pass to make lopping off limbs more exciting.

Zombies should be blown to bits by grenades and the dismemberment animations could follow repeated damage to the same area. The problem with that though is that either weapon damage in general would need to be nerfed, or zombie hp would need to be increased such that hacking at them would be viable and believable. 

Z's that have had their arms removed shouldn't be able to hit you either, but I've been belted by no arm zombies. 

There is a lot that can be done I think but our discussions will only ever sit at the level of speculation unless one of the devs steps in and gives us some idea of what they could do, and more importantly - what they will do

 

[Crater Creator]

A question for faatal: Would it be possible that trigger area for POI rooms is extended to the wall blocks and breaking such a block also triggers the zombies in that area?

I think this might fix a possible exploit where breaking through walls makes zombies not wake up.

The trigger areas are box-shaped volumes, hand-placed by the level designers.  It seems unlikely a programmatic solution would work in all POIs, without taking away the designer's control (e.g. making the zombies wake up too early in some cases).