bachgaman
New member
super agree, electric traps are too strong and look very raw. especially spoils the impression of the game endlessly working "electric fence"
PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow
- Thread starter meilodasreh
- Start date
RipClaw
Well-known member
The electric fence does not work endlessly. It gets damaged every time a zombie walks through. After a while, it doesn't work at all and you have to fix it.
And I wouldn't call electric traps strong either. You have to constantly repair them and invest a lot of resources. Anyone who has ever had many dart traps in operation knows how much iron you have to invest. And anyone who has had blade traps in operation knows that they can be easily destroyed and must also be constantly repaired during the horde.
bachgaman
New member
Lol, how much damage does he take for each zombie? And how difficult it is to repair it, given that there is no delay in the game to repair anything. Any repair is done instantly. In my experience it needs to be repaired 1-2 times per blood moon at very high stages
Darts deal incredibly high damage for virtually no cost. It's very funny to see the phrase "how much iron you have to invest", considering that iron is literally everywhere and by the end of the first week you have a drill and a miner 69 => you have endless free iron => darts is free
No pictures shown yet (to my knowledge, I'm not on their social media channels)
I think it means that trader won't have stuff that is miles ahead of your progression and therefore won't make crafting useless. They also will have magazines to buy.
It probably also means that there will be more crafting ingredients to buy (especially weapon parts) instead of only complete weapons.
Because that is where the normal progression was massively bypassed.
RipClaw
Well-known member
It does not matter how much it is damaged per zombie. The fact is that the electric fences don't last the whole horde and you have to repair them, so the statement that they work endlessly is simply wrong. In the same way you could argue that guns work endlessly because you can repair them during the horde and by the way a repair kit doesn't cost much either.
To craft the iron darts you need to mine iron and clay and smelt them in the forge. A dart trap can hold 1500 iron darts, which require a total of 4500 iron and 1500 clay. For a base with e.g. 6 dart traps you need 27000 iron and 9000 clay per week.
By the way, according to your own reasoning, ammunition is also free. Lead, nitrate and coal can be mined and you can sell stone and iron for 1200 coins per stack to the trader. The coins can be melted for brass. The trader restock every 3 days. So per week I can make up to 14400 coins from one trader only with stacks of stone and iron. That gives me 2880 bullet casings per week.
If you have an auger already in first week then you are either very lucky to find the schematic or you bought it from the trader. Both will no longer be possible in A21.
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Thanks for your insight. A shame if they don't have any way to bypass progression. Seems like it would be better to have something. Maybe a risk/reward system.
One thing that really bothers me is finding stone tools around. Even in locked safes. Sheesh.
bachgaman
New member
Not true. It is very important. If you need to repair it 1-2 times in hundreds of hits, then it's almost endless. And by the way, it's almost free.
The repair kit is really too cheap, but guns waste bullets, and bullets require shells. And for the shells you need brass, which cannot be dug out in the amount of several thousand per minute. Thus, the use of guns requires a conditionally non-infinite resource. Of course there is a trader exploit
Are you not funny yourself? Is 4k iron a lot? It's less than 1 minute in mine. And tell me why you need 6 dart traps at the base. One is enough and it will almost single-handedly destroy the horde in BM, i tested. Its overly efficient
Cool, but compare this paragraph and the previous one to see how much more free it is. To make a bullet, you need to go to one mine, then another, then a third, then work on a chemical table,, in a forge, on a workbench and so on. To make a dart you need to go to one mine and work in a forge. At the same time, the dart is stronger. Fair? Not
Yes, ammo is still cheap, but at least it requires brass. In addition, it require more operations than darts. At the same time, darts are still have more damage. That's why I say traps are too strong (too effective)
Yes, I bought it from a trader. Because trader and INT branch is broken and too strong. I've been telling you about this for over a year and I've only gotten dislikes. And now it's fixed. But who cares what will change who knows when, if we are discussing the game in its current state?
RipClaw
Well-known member
Almost endless is not endless and almost free is not free either.
Guns also kill zombies while fences stun them. Do you see the difference?
Maybe a day 7 horde with 8 zombies simultaneously. Try killing a day 70 horde with demolishers and 32 zombies simultaneously with a single dart trap. Good luck with that.
Oh suddenly there is free and more free ? And it doesn't matter how many mines or anything else you need. Your whole argument was based only on the fact that there is unlimited iron. The other resources are also unlimited and in addition you find ammo in loot.
There are numerous differences between the dart trap and a gun. For example, the dart trap can only shoot in one direction. Whereas with a gun you can aim freely. In addition, firearms have the advantage that they do more damage through skills in contrast to a dart trap. A iron dart always deals a entity damage of 45. For example, a Q5 Pipe Machinegun with 3 mods deals 51.6 damage + 40% more damage with level 4 of the Machine Gunner perk and 260% headshot damage with level 7 of Fortitude. If I use my Q5 M60 this damage increases to 78.4 per hit + all the perks.
Yes it takes a few more steps to make bullets but unlike iron darts you find the ammo in loot and you also get ammo for T1 and T2 quests as well. I also explained how to get brass with stone and iron. If you need more brass there are plenty of sources. There is no shortage of brass in A20.
You don't like electric traps? Then do not use them or mod the so weak that you are happy with it.
So your argument is "it's broken and that's why I'm exploiting it". I have never bought an auger or a gun from a trader because of similar considerations. However, I accept that the developers have made it possible and that players use it. I have imposed this limitation on myself.
The current state for developers is A21. The whole balancing and progress will change simply because you can no longer easily get stronger weapons or an auger.
Who knows how long it will even be before we can build dart traps or blade traps in A21.
There is a risk/reward system in the game. Just go to desert, winter biome or wasteland and you can jump ahead of the curve
bachgaman
New member
You pick on words
You were the first who compare guns with a fence
Day 70? What's the point of playing until day 70 if i have a auger on day 7. The game actually ends on day 20-30 as the limit of all possibilities is reached. Anyway, i will try when i get my laptop
"More free" is sarcasm because obviously the price is the time and effort it takes to get something. You say that ammo is free as well as darts, although it is obvious that it takes a lot more actions and resources to produce them. Even based on your words in the same paragraph where you put them on a par with darts. And good luck with only headshots in a 10 fps game
The production of ammo is still more resource-intensive and labor-intensive than darts
I do not use in some games, in some I limit it
Not this way. My argument is "I see an obvious hole in the game balance and I report it." After that game where I showed everyone how easy it is to get a auger and a concrete base on day 7, I played games without a trader. Of course, when I play, I try to play to the limit. Otherwise it's not interesting. But unfortunately, I often have to impose restrictions on myself due to the fact that the balance of the game is bad.
I don't see where to download A21? Or are we developers?
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
We already do, go into the higher biomes for higher lootstage. There is also eye candy buff.
Edit: just read megas post...
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falloutcloud
Active member
wolfbain5
Well-known member
did that, but zombie bears every night blew all my ammo before I ever got to horde night. also because of spawn rules, made it very hard to get any meat
beerfly
Colony Rounder
Food, indeed is a bit difficult on Wasteland biome only.
But the challenge .. priceless !
I guess its a bit of a balance thing, when we go gold, hope would be proper piece of fun for everyone.
bachgaman
New member
Useless? What if I told you that someone enjoys crafting? I hope you understand what this is referring to
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bachgaman
New member
Once I said that bows and stealth are useless, in response I received a ton of resentment with the message "if we enjoy it, then it's not useless"
Two weeks later madmole wrote the same thing and got a standing ovation
We discussed it with you in pm.
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Once I said that bows and stealth are useless, in response I received a ton of resentment with the message "if we enjoy it, then it's not useless"
Two weeks later madmole wrote the same thing and got a standing ovation
We discussed it with you in pm.
Ah, right.
Let me just correct the sentence above, you did not receive a ton of resentement, you received a ton of opposition. Resentment happened because of word choices (if I remember correctly).
And now for a proper reply to the original question:
"If" doesn't count. Do you know someone who enjoys weapon and armor crafting in A20?
Old Crow
Well-known member
They did tease Trader Bob's new compound on Twitter back in April. It looks pretty tight, though I'll miss the ol' self-storage.
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