PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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RhinoW said:
Sure, if you just compare the uniqueness of the designs, 7 days to die wins. However, you're not looking at the context of the zombies. Both games have hordes and lots of roaming enemies, meaning, you want to make "common" zombies as similar as possible, to avoid the noticeable repetition that ruins world credibility. Another big issue is that 7 days to die zombies feel stiff and artificial as they lack facial animations and ever since that headtracking update, even when they get that head stun animation where they grab it, they're still looking at you, which simply doesn't make sense. It's the tiny things that make a product feel complete, and atm,  neither the base game or modding have that.

Also, custom MODELS is that last of modding problems, a model swap is basic, the real modding comes from custom hitboxes, mechanics, animations, events...etc.

So I got my fingers crossed until gold, where I really hope this is addressed and 7 days can become as immortal and moddable as Minecraft. (I mean seriously, its a Unity game, should be much easier to mod at the end).
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background :  No more room in hell 2 was made most of time by people in their free time. now since last  year they are able to work full job. So it's "fair" comparison with mods - well re 2 models would be much better but this AAA game.  

crawler zombie and wright now looks so bad in 7dtd - crawler is only zombie that looks rotten while rest fresk and wright was change from mutant into just zombie while spider and screamers are not mutants xd

for me mechanics or event is not problem. If there is not enough zombie variants ( at least visualy)  i don't  have reason to play - cod CW oubreak mode is from mechnical and gameplay point of view pretty fun until you start clean map (it's good thing if you plan to do Main Quests) and you see over and over maybe 20 zombie variants this became so boring and reptative. Who cares if you can do so many things when you literaly fight with clone army? 

There is so many options for zombie variants and types so i could make even a list for that xd

 
meganoth said:
The Wachowski brothers made 2 films about this, and the fights with the clone army were the highlight of those movies.😁
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Good point so explain better :)  it was suitable for this sci-fi setting.

"Clone army" doesn't mean literaly clone army - this can mean when there is not enough enemy types/variants. So games where there can be literaly clone army  can avoid "clone army" problem

 the best examples are 

1. fear

2. Serious sam

3. kiling floor.

4. Painkiller

1. Fear - situation with this brand of complicated so let's treat that every game is cannon.  Fear is brand when you play with mercs, clone army and mutants/ghosts. Yet clone army is not "clone army" in gaming meaning - there so many variants of them if we summarise every type of enemy from 1 game and dlc - there is like 30 types of enemies + visual variants. In FPS from 2005 - so you don't have feeling that you fight wil over and over this same few enemies but  often there is something new.

2. Serious sam in kinda Sci-fi movies parody when you again fight with clone armies but... there is so many variant of them + lore explanation : this one if clone , this one skeleton etc. so you don't have this vibe because often you met new  enemies, some reappair after long time etc.

3. killing floor - this is similiar situaon like above buit horror movies parodies- enemies are clones but.... you get thematicaly diffrent visualy of them. plus... this is not game to play for hours : just play one match during talking about random stuff before go to sleep

4. painkiller - game set in purgatory/hell : there is many "clones" yet... it's two things - game is literaly in hell so enemies are "representation" of sinners/demons. Boy with knife is symbol of bad boys. Cultist monk - symbol of satanistic cults etc. AND..... there is many types of them. Some are unique for  single maps. And even more - some enemies have variants : skeleton soldier have ww1, military base , civil war and air fight variant. this same thing with dunno zombie warriors with 3 variants, lepper zombies etc. while... this game was costed.... 20 zł ( it's like 4 dolars in 2004 ) then game + dlc 20 zł both.

While in cod it's just looking cheap. That's why i'm so glad that TFP decided to add this "clothes colours" because this can help a little bit.  i give up hope that TFP will add more zombie types ( unless they will decided to make dlc). Yet there is pretty many options of suitable for 7dtd that could be added by mods which would be vanilia like ( less chances that dlc)

 
Matt115 said:
Good point so explain better :)  it was suitable for this sci-fi setting.

"Clone army" doesn't mean literaly clone army - this can mean when there is not enough enemy types/variants. So games where there can be literaly clone army  can avoid "clone army" problem

 the best examples are 

1. fear

2. Serious sam

3. kiling floor.

4. Painkiller

1. Fear - situation with this brand of complicated so let's treat that every game is cannon.  Fear is brand when you play with mercs, clone army and mutants/ghosts. Yet clone army is not "clone army" in gaming meaning - there so many variants of them if we summarise every type of enemy from 1 game and dlc - there is like 30 types of enemies + visual variants. In FPS from 2005 - so you don't have feeling that you fight wil over and over this same few enemies but  often there is something new.

2. Serious sam in kinda Sci-fi movies parody when you again fight with clone armies but... there is so many variant of them + lore explanation : this one if clone , this one skeleton etc. so you don't have this vibe because often you met new  enemies, some reappair after long time etc.

3. killing floor - this is similiar situaon like above buit horror movies parodies- enemies are clones but.... you get thematicaly diffrent visualy of them. plus... this is not game to play for hours : just play one match during talking about random stuff before go to sleep

4. painkiller - game set in purgatory/hell : there is many "clones" yet... it's two things - game is literaly in hell so enemies are "representation" of sinners/demons. Boy with knife is symbol of bad boys. Cultist monk - symbol of satanistic cults etc. AND..... there is many types of them. Some are unique for  single maps. And even more - some enemies have variants : skeleton soldier have ww1, military base , civil war and air fight variant. this same thing with dunno zombie warriors with 3 variants, lepper zombies etc. while... this game was costed.... 20 zł ( it's like 4 dolars in 2004 ) then game + dlc 20 zł both.

While in cod it's just looking cheap. That's why i'm so glad that TFP decided to add this "clothes colours" because this can help a little bit.  i give up hope that TFP will add more zombie types ( unless they will decided to make dlc). Yet there is pretty many options of suitable for 7dtd that could be added by mods which would be vanilia like ( less chances that dlc)
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I know what you meant. And I was specifically hinting that fights can be fun whether you fight with hundreds of individuals or hundreds of clones. You even could imagine that the zombies in 7D2D are really zombie clones generated at a secret lab. If a "realistic" explanation is important for you.

 
meganoth said:
I know what you meant. And I was specifically hinting that fights can be fun whether you fight with hundreds of individuals or hundreds of clones. You even could imagine that the zombies in 7D2D are really zombie clones generated at a secret lab. If a "realistic" explanation is important for you.
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7dtd supposed to be realistic style game (as for zombie standards in 2013) not parody ( killing floor, toxic commando). To be honest : i'm realy proud about new props quality ( good job), Pois and.... "enviroiment" ( yet there should be more corpse props types - it would help a lot), what about mechanics?  LBL is much worst that LBD but okay, water if fine, some receptures could be change a little bit but fine. Farming is too oversimply but i get it - it's not project zomboid after all. Yet.... armors, guns and enemies are proof that art style is TFP weakness.

But let's start from positive! 

Traders looks great, animals too ( i think that pigs shoulds stay but fine)

now bad

let's start from guns : their models looks like... designed for bootleg toy soldiers to avoid lawsuit by GJ.Joy producents  or weapons companies. No. there is no reasons looks like this in game set in realitisic style universe - there so many weapons and spare parts in USA that make using junk would much  harder that find suitable parts. Today are in use ww2 and ww1 with orginal config ( specialy MG42) so totaly there is no reason for that - low number of types of weapon is acceteble  by fact of perks and they  wanted to make melee and guns equal.

Armors.

This new fiber armors alone looks good but... totaly not fit to this game. it would be perfectly for metro - nature connected cultist which have a lot of sense when you consider where game take place. But 7dtd? best option would be.... remove it and just make players to find civilan clothes. clothes in real life could be exactly everywhere - starting on gas station and small shopes ending on random forgotten suitcase

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Zombies: <sign>  one hand : normal zombies models are good from other : totaly lack of one artyle : radioactive looks like taken from 1 game, crawler from other with spider, screamer from another game, this same demolition man, and burned like from even other.

  crawler looks too roten  compare to other zombies only to spider, radiactive looks like taken from fallout - much better option to mix it with hazmat zombie : Grenadier | Dead Island Wiki | Fandom

Screamer looks... acctable yet because rest of special zombie not "get beaten" by this

spider looks too mutated compire to diffrent zombie - ofc it could be done in lab but then wright should again looks like mutant,

demoliton man - looks not suitable compare to soldier zombies.  What could be done with it? best option would be change into "infected suvivor" not soldier.

I get that TFP wanted to make 7dtd for wider playerbase as possible but design of "characters" looks like... this SCI FI channel movies which people are watching in hostels because netlix is not working. You now 16+ movies which are made realy fast and stuff is reaused often - this hunting rifle will be used in mutant in one movie while in another will be used by main hero in movie abou sharks while in another by gangster in criminal movie. 

I hope that TFP is able to make something more Mature and have hopes that artstyle problems are caused by focus on many technical problems connected with making voxel game

 
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MY only problem with these 4x4 vehicles is the things on the front that make them useless. The jeep isn't even used on our server (we use Bdubyah's humvee instead) because of the thing on the front that constantly goes into terrain. I can off-road in my F-250 all day right now. Put a snow-plow on it where it has an inch of clearance. Think it will do much of anything off-road?

I don't mind these plows as an option, but make them optional. The current jeep would be rad if we could remove the rigging up front and actually have more than an inch of ground clearance.

I'm from the south, I enjoy off-roading. Clearance is at the top of the list, especially if you're climbing rocks or going through rivers/deep mud. Give us a REAL off-road option!

 
The_Great_Sephiroth said:
MY only problem with these 4x4 vehicles is the things on the front that make them useless. The jeep isn't even used on our server (we use Bdubyah's humvee instead) because of the thing on the front that constantly goes into terrain. I can off-road in my F-250 all day right now. Put a snow-plow on it where it has an inch of clearance. Think it will do much of anything off-road?

I don't mind these plows as an option, but make them optional. The current jeep would be rad if we could remove the rigging up front and actually have more than an inch of ground clearance.

I'm from the south, I enjoy off-roading. Clearance is at the top of the list, especially if you're climbing rocks or going through rivers/deep mud. Give us a REAL off-road option!
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Look at the pictures again a bit more carefully. 

 
Maybe a mod or @faatal can answer this for me - on the new armor sets that are coming, are they still going to be condensed down to 4 pieces, and will we still be able to mix and match armor pieces?

 
Matt115 said:
7dtd supposed to be realistic style game (as for zombie standards in 2013)
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There is your fundamental problem with 7D2D right there. When you start with false assumptions you reach false conclusions. Just look at the demolisher and tell me again it is "supposed" to be realistic. And no wishing or praying from you will change the fact that in 7D2D broken bones heal in a day and the moon turns red every 7 days. Where some other games try to be as realistic as possible, 7D2D is somewhere in the wide field between realism and a comic, probably more on the side of comic than realism.

Now I get it, the rest of your post is again your pamphlet to the developers with your wishlist and a request to them to please change their ways and reconsider. Could you please make a new post and adress it to Fataal for example the next time. I always feel left out of a dialog I am supposed to be a part of 😎

 
meganoth said:
There is your fundamental problem with 7D2D right there. When you start with false assumptions you reach false conclusions. Just look at the demolisher and tell me again it is "supposed" to be realistic. And no wishing or praying from you will change the fact that in 7D2D broken bones heal in a day and the moon turns red every 7 days. Where some other games try to be as realistic as possible, 7D2D is somewhere in the wide field between realism and a comic, probably more on the side of comic than realism.

Now I get it, the rest of your post is again your pamphlet to the developers with your wishlist and a request to them to please change their ways and reconsider. Could you please make a new post and adress it to Fataal for example the next time. I always feel left out of a dialog I am supposed to be a part of 😎
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7DTD was released shortly after MC. Graphic was more close to F.E.A.R or cod WaW ( grey/brown aethethic, buildings style etc.) 7DTD artstyle is like person who was considering that go to IT ( realistic) or engineering ( comic/parody) but considering what want from live so long that finished as night guard on parking. Still better that crackhead ( Night of the Dead) yet i think it's not something to be proud of. About broken bones or blood moon - i will give you Uncharted as example - one of dev expalin that you character never get bulllet "canonical" during gameplay only during cutscene and "lose of health" is just " lose of luck" - damn Drake is the luckiest man alive if he can is not shot buy guy using shotgun point blank. Yet it's realisitic about logic - if there is ww2 base : you can find mp40 near german corpse. So yeah there is magic etc. yet... what should be realisitc is realitic - i don't think you would find M16 in XVI century ship wrecks. 

But returing to 7dtd - started in realistic style - pois design, props, weapon models, enemy models etc. just there is totaly change of style since dunno A19? 

About writing to Faatal: i don't think that ping him will cause that he answer to this post after all. Devs were piged pretty often previosly ( idk if something change during halve of year) so it's likely it will be ignored. You are Mod here so you are probably in more direct contact with devs. If you want to join him into disccusion you can DM him. I will gladly explain him my point of view. 

 
vergilsparda said:
DYING to know where the 5th person sits, because there's the two front seats and the two in the back... unless someone sits in the empty space in the bed, perhaps? 👀
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On the contrary my friend, the moment I saw that vehicle I immediately wondered why it only supports 5 people.

At least there is not a single movie with a postapocalyptic theme, where everybody is neatly and properly seated inside their vehicles,

fasten your seatbelts please.

There's always at least one or two of them just clinging to the sides or on top of their jury-rigged whatever monstrosities they drive around.

So really, thinking MadMax style, this thing should be able to support 8 people or more.

 
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2.  Someone can said " But modders are not rich enough to buy good models!" - true yet are able to "take off " harley queen from Batman. I think they could take models from cod, l4d2, or even re 2 ( spoiler art - people are using RE 2 models for mods in diffrent games)
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That is asking for the copyright owners to send a cease and desist letter to you.  Unless the model has been deemed fair use, most modders that want to stay out of trouble will not take copyright materials from other medias / games and use in their mods.

 
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