PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Some random thoughts while taking a shower:

  • Maybe when a player takes the first level of a Perk, like Master Chef, they also get a few points towards learning some recipes. I don't mean a lot of points. Maybe 3?


  • If the Dew Collector is a workstation, and workstations have tools that augment them (like anvil, bellows, cooking pot, grill) then why isn't the Filter a tool for the Dew Collector? If it were, a Dew Collector would turn out Murky Water until it had a Filter. You could make it so that there were slots for multiple filters and the chance of getting potable water depended on the number and quality of those filters.


  • Why don't workstations tools (cooking pot, grill, bellows) have a durability and quality? Then they could degrade and need to be repaired. New players with low quality tools (Q1 Cooking Pot) might have to repair it frequently, and it might even slow down their cooking. Perhaps the highest quality of tool never broke? In this way, perhaps cooking pots could be a bit more common.


  • Weird Question: Once I have a filter, why do I need the dew collector? Can't I just filter water from a pond? Okay, yeh that's a reality vs game question. (You use Dew Collectors in places where there isn't a water source.) But still? Why make a dew collector when I could make a pitcher with a filter? Okay, yeh, game, sorry.
 
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Neminsis said:
That's the thing though, I've never asked that anything be removed, or for any changes that would be difficult to implement, or would change the balance for any one else, but would broaden the way that players can interact with this 'sandbox' and thus increase the potential player base. 
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Well, like I said, I hadn't read through all your posts because they were all very large.  As I had said, it was in response to the little I did read and the many other posts saying similar things.  If it doesn't apply to you, it still applies to those who are posting such things.  And it's still a response to the post I quoted where you were talking about why people are being told to mod it or whatever.  In short, it was saying that since this isn't going away, the best response to people is to offer them options - don't update, mod, adjust.  Better than saying they are simply SOL and get over it.

ComPage said:
Currently on day 7 in Navezgane in my first playthrough of Alpha 21 after only playing Alpha 20 before and I am loving the upgrade.  There are so many improvements it would be misleading to mention only a handful.  I am far from being the quickest player and I'm not very experienced either so this problem could be my fault but I haven't found a wrench and have only found one mechanical part.  I could make a wrench if I could get mechanical parts but can't get them without a wrench.  Ideas?
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You usually find some in the electronic store shelves.  Check any loot that relates to mechanical or electrical things and there'll be a chance to find them.

 
ComPage said:
Currently on day 7 in Navezgane in my first playthrough of Alpha 21 after only playing Alpha 20 before and I am loving the upgrade.  There are so many improvements it would be misleading to mention only a handful.  I am far from being the quickest player and I'm not very experienced either so this problem could be my fault but I haven't found a wrench and have only found one mechanical part.  I could make a wrench if I could get mechanical parts but can't get them without a wrench.  Ideas?
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In my single player game I had exactly the same problem. Tried to experiment (without much hope) if I could get mechanical parts from cars or appliances with a stone axe. When I was sure it wasn#t going to work I went to the trader to buy them and to a hardware store and gas station to find them. If I remember correctly I had the required amount very fast.

 
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zztong said:
If the Dew Collector is a workstation, and workstations have tools that augment them (like anvil, bellows, cooking pot, grill) then why isn't the Filter a tool for the Dew Collector? If it were, a Dew Collector would turn out Murky Water until it had a Filter. You could make it so that there were slots for multiple filters and the chance of getting potable water depended on the number and quality of those filters.
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This would be nice, though I get so much murky water from normal looting/questing that I really don't need extra.

 
With so much new POIs + the reworked ones, citys are looking fantastic now (and the great rng gen in the back). Also kudos to the performance optimizations, 7dtd is the only game I know of, whichs graphics are getting constantly better while lowering the specs needed for it. This is somewhat of a holy gral :)

Really nice update Im enjoing it so far.

I also dont get the anger here, Im playing since almost the first steam versions, each Alpha had its pros and cons, I like these changes because so it feels a bit like a new game with each alpha. And yeah its got a bit harder this time, in regards of zombie first hit and bleeding but I like it.

In regards to the crafting system Im unsure but not in a way that would disturb me.

Thank you TFP, I would say really good job!

Please let us craft all these wonderful new doors....

 
zztong said:
  • If the Dew Collector is a workstation, and workstations have tools that augment them (like anvil, bellows, cooking pot, grill) then why isn't the Filter a tool for the Dew Collector? If it were, a Dew Collector would turn out Murky Water until it had a Filter. You could make it so that there were slots for multiple filters and the chance of getting potable water depended on the number and quality of those filters.
Click to expand...


Once you have a cooking pot the filter would be superfluous then and you could produce fresh water in unlimited quantities, immediately from day 1. Exactly what the filter as a gate tries to prevent

 
Riamus said:
What traders were you passing?  Were they in the forest?  The starter quest will only take you to a forest trader, so you might pass closer ones that aren't in the forest.  Still, it sounds like spawn points need improved in the new RWG and so that should get resolved in time.
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The map is at least 50% forest, if not closer to 60%. I passed two other Rekts (it sent me to a 3rd) and I'm not sure of the third, I only know it wasn't a Jen. Tried attaching a picture, but I keep getting "Error 200".

Remnant_Skyscraper_01 is in the forest biome in a town by itself. Dishong, Crack A Book HQ, and Higashi are in a forest biome town within a block of each other. The new Vanity Apartments is also in that town in the same area, so basically 4 skyscrapers in one city. The tower construction site is off by itself in a winter biome town. There are at least 8 good sized town/cities on the map, leaving 6 of them as "why bother". Ok, maybe there's a tier 5 factory or prison in them. In that case its just a matter of spreading stuff out for the sake of spreading stuff out, which is bad game mechanics. Maybe its time to revert all the way back to Alpha 7-8 days (I don't know about before, I only started in 7) and have one central "big bad city" with everything else surrounding it.

 
zztong said:
If the Dew Collector is a workstation, and workstations have tools that augment them (like anvil, bellows, cooking pot, grill) then why isn't the Filter a tool for the Dew Collector? If it were, a Dew Collector would turn out Murky Water until it had a Filter. You could make it so that there were slots for multiple filters and the chance of getting potable water depended on the number and quality of those filters.
Click to expand...


meganoth said:
Once you have a cooking pot the filter would be superfluous then and you could produce fresh water in unlimited quantities, immediately from day 1. Exactly what the filter as a gate tries to prevent
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I am enjoying the changes to drinking water as is, but i do think zztong's idea would be even better.

I don't see how meganoth's point makes sense, because you would still just be getting 3 murky water per day per dew collector. With the change to cooking times, which is significant, getting clean water will still take some effort.

If this was a change tfp actually considers, you could change the dew collector recipe in other ways to make it difficult to spam them early game. Increase polymers to 250 from 100, for instance. Gathering bulk polymer early game is not super trivial. For mid to late game, even if it stays the way it is now, everyone will be able to have enough dew collectors to ensure they have all the water they want.

Currently on day 3 (160 min days), i have 2 dew collectors and enough dukes to buy a third water filter if i want, but i don't need it yet. I have enough water as is. Having the option for gimped dew collectors that only give murky water adds to my choices in a way that i don't feel is op. Just interesting.

Either way is fine with me, but i do feel zztong's idea would make the changes more interesting to me.

 
katarynna said:
I don't see how meganoth's point makes sense, because you would still just be getting 3 murky water per day per dew collector. With the change to cooking times, which is significant, getting clean water will still take some effort.

If this was a change tfp actually considers, you could change the dew collector recipe in other ways to make it difficult to spam them early game. Increase polymers to 250 from 100, for instance. Gathering bulk polymer early game is not super trivial. For mid to late game, even if it stays the way it is now, everyone will be able to have enough dew collectors to ensure they have all the water they want.
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Meganoth is correct, IMO. If the dew collector gave murky water without a filter there'd be no point in getting a filter, *especially* if the filter would cost 250 polymers like you suggest. I'm not gonna spend 250 polymers just to save me the process of turning the murky water into water by simply boiling it in the campfire. That's not much effort at all, really.

EDIT: That said, I do like the idea of tools for the Dew Collector like other workstations. For example, a tool that adds more capacity to it, or increases its collection speed.

 
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Drithyl said:
Meganoth is correct, IMO. If the dew collector gave murky water without a filter there'd be no point in getting a filter, *especially* if the filter would cost 250 polymers like you suggest. I'm not gonna spend 250 polymers just to save me the process of turning the murky water into water by simply boiling it in the campfire. That's not much effort at all, really.

EDIT: That said, I do like the idea of tools for the Dew Collector like other workstations. For example, a tool that adds more capacity to it, or increases its collection speed.
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You misunderstood me. Maybe i didn't phrase it well.

The filter would cost the same as now, 1500 dukes at the trader.

The dew collector recipe currently includes 100 polymer. I was suggesting increasing the amount of polymer required for the dew collector to 250. Just so you couldn't spam craft 3 or 4 dew collectors immediately because they would no longer require the water filter as a rare, non-craftable ingredient.

Getting your first dew collector would be arguably more difficult because of the increased polymer requirement. However in reality it would be about the same, as gathering 1500 dukes at the start of the game could take a similar amount of time as gathering an extra 150 polymer.

Also, that was one extra change to the dew collector beyond removing the water filter requirement. Any change that would greatly decrease the ability to spam many dew collectors if the filter was a tool instead of an ingredient would work.

 
I did misunderstand, my bad. Yeah, removing the dependency on the filter but raising the bar to craft the collector itself would be a viable option, as you say.

 
Good Day TFP's

I Have one serious question. Since you removed the ability to make glass JARS ... How does the Rain Collector make glass jars with No glass in it???  Just wondering. 

 
kattenijin said:
The map is at least 50% forest, if not closer to 60%. I passed two other Rekts (it sent me to a 3rd) and I'm not sure of the third, I only know it wasn't a Jen. Tried attaching a picture, but I keep getting "Error 200".

Remnant_Skyscraper_01 is in the forest biome in a town by itself. Dishong, Crack A Book HQ, and Higashi are in a forest biome town within a block of each other. The new Vanity Apartments is also in that town in the same area, so basically 4 skyscrapers in one city. The tower construction site is off by itself in a winter biome town. There are at least 8 good sized town/cities on the map, leaving 6 of them as "why bother". Ok, maybe there's a tier 5 factory or prison in them. In that case its just a matter of spreading stuff out for the sake of spreading stuff out, which is bad game mechanics. Maybe its time to revert all the way back to Alpha 7-8 days (I don't know about before, I only started in 7) and have one central "big bad city" with everything else surrounding it.
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I'd definitely give them the map seed (it is in the MapInfo.xml file if you forgot it) and the map settings when creating the map and also the spawnpoints.xml file so they can't look into it.

 
I have been noticing something odd with the zombies, it seems like they are getting hung up on nothing and jumping in place until you get close or hit them, i watched a roaming horde near my place just jumping for no reason, is this a possible pathing bug?

 
The roaming hoards seem to sometimes have a destination (usually your location, or close to it). When they get there, and there's nobody to fight, they just mull around. Is that possibly what you're seeing? It's not new though.

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

 
Morloc said:
The roaming hoards seem to sometimes have a destination (usually your location, or close to it). When they get there, and there's nobody to fight, they just mull around. Is that possibly what you're seeing? It's not new though.

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀
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This behaviour is new to me though, usually roaming hordes would path past me and keep going if i did not engage, this time it was like they were stuck on air, day one walking down a road i watched a hobo zombie do the same thing alone, just jumping for no reason, its amusing but makes me wonder if something is wrong

 
Just been building my new horde base, and wondered if the electric fence wires are meant to join from down the pole now?  Or is that a bug?  In A20, they joined from the very top,  most people probably don't notice this, but I have them placed lowered and now the zombies walk right over them :(

Posting here, cos I really don't know if this is a bug/oversight/intended.

Attached a pic of me experimenting to show it:

20230614180516_1.jpg

 
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