PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Riamus]

And then we go on with 9 bandit models instead of a character creator that  swaps heads  and some equipment. I'm not gonna lie, that design choice is not great in a world with this level of freedom. There's no defending this issue aside from: "too little time, too much to do", and I believe that is the actual real reason. 

In my opinion, there are many more things to do until gold, and zd variation can come later, if ever. All the current ones can always become special entities and a proper system can be implemented to generate "fluff" ones, but it doesn't really take priority over things like factions, story or quests.

You know... factions sound nice and might be worthwhile.  Considering how the game itself plays, a story is likely to be interesting once and then you ignore it.  This is a game you play over and over again.  No story, no matter how good, will last past the first one or two games.  Yes, you can have multiple endings, but how much will that matter when you play this game dozens of times?  Don't get me wrong, I want a story.  I just don't think it'll matter beyond that first game.  And they may not even have a story in random maps.  They might only do it in Navesgane.  Either way, it's nice and I'll take it, but in the end I care more about what I'm doing 90% of the time... killing zombies.  Art for everything I see is important and I'm happy to see the updates and new POIs are very good to have though there are some great POI packs available that fill that need even though I still want to get more from TFP.  But the zombies are also very important.  I'm sure bandits will become very important as well and I have to wonder if we're going to only get half a dozen or so different bandits and end up with the same repetition as we have with zombies.

 

[Riamus]

I think that PC and Console games should be in sync because some people feel left out, for example console players can't even play sons of the forests right now but PC players can.

I have to just say... So what?  It may be harsh to say that, but when it comes down to it, there are many games only available on console that I can't play because they aren't available at all on PC and never will be.  I have the choice of either getting the console that has the games I would like to play or else not playing them.  Everyone has the same choice.  People like console and I get that.  I do as well.  But if you really enjoy gaming, you have a much larger selection of games on PC and a PC is not too expensive to have one that will play most of them.  Sure, it's more than a single console but it seems that most console owners have at least 2 consoles and at that point, you can get a PC that will play most games at least at Medium graphics.  I mean, 4 years ago I spent about $700 on a lower end desktop and it played all games that I wanted to play on Ultra settings at that time and for a couple of years.  After that, I started to have to lower graphics to high until very recently when I sometimes had to lower graphics to medium.  With an update to RAM, that resolved most of that and I can run at Ultra again on most things I want to play  $700 isn't a high cost for playing PC games and isn't so very much more than console costs that it is a stretch to get.

Anyhow, what it really comes down to for me is that even if you have everything the same between PC and console, you still have the possibility of far better graphics on PC if the option is there in the specific game, so console is already missing out on stuff.  It's my own opinion that if you choose console, you have to accept that you won't get everything that you can with PC and just be okay with that.  And if you aren't okay with that, then consider having a PC in addition to console.  I know that's not a popular opinion. 

 

[Crypted]

I have to just say... So what?  It may be harsh to say that, but when it comes down to it, there are many games only available on console that I can't play because they aren't available at all on PC and never will be.  I have the choice of either getting the console that has the games I would like to play or else not playing them.  Everyone has the same choice.  People like console and I get that.  I do as well.  But if you really enjoy gaming, you have a much larger selection of games on PC and a PC is not too expensive to have one that will play most of them.  Sure, it's more than a single console but it seems that most console owners have at least 2 consoles and at that point, you can get a PC that will play most games at least at Medium graphics.  I mean, 4 years ago I spent about $700 on a lower end desktop and it played all games that I wanted to play on Ultra settings at that time and for a couple of years.  After that, I started to have to lower graphics to high until very recently when I sometimes had to lower graphics to medium.  With an update to RAM, that resolved most of that and I can run at Ultra again on most things I want to play  $700 isn't a high cost for playing PC games and isn't so very much more than console costs that it is a stretch to get.

Anyhow, what it really comes down to for me is that even if you have everything the same between PC and console, you still have the possibility of far better graphics on PC if the option is there in the specific game, so console is already missing out on stuff.  It's my own opinion that if you choose console, you have to accept that you won't get everything that you can with PC and just be okay with that.  And if you aren't okay with that, then consider having a PC in addition to console.  I know that's not a popular opinion. 

I personally like having hard copies for my games I don't like digital so I never really thought about getting a PC, but when it comes to 7DTD, console players missed out on a lot with each Alpha because of what happened and yeah I know the new console version for 7DTD is coming out soon but still I think it took around 6 years or so. I just want to play the updated version of the game here soon and not have to wait any longer for it. I think consoles should just be better when it comes to performance and FPS because with some games it terrible. 

 

[Riamus]

I personally like having hard copies for my games I don't like digital games so I never really thought about getting a PC, but when it comes to 7DTD, console players missed out on a lot because of what happened and yeah I know the new console version for 7DTD is coming out soon but still I think it took around 6 years or so. I just want to play the updated version of the game here soon and not have to wait any longer for it. I think consoles should just be better when it comes to performance and FPS because with some games it terrible. 

I used to prefer hard copies as well.  I still have dozens of original CDs and DVDs of games and even some old floppy disks, though the floppy disks may or may not work anymore.  But after I finally switched over to using Steam (only in the last maybe 4 or 5 years), I realized how much easier it is to not need disks.  I can play any game I want without having to look for the right disk and I never have to worry about disks being damaged.  I didn't think it would be as good as it is until I finally took the leap. 

I also think consoles should be better than they are, but they will always fall behind computers because you can upgrade computers.  Consoles are static.  In a way that is good because you don't have to worry about compatibility - if it says it works on PS5, then it will work on your PS5.  But compatibility really isn't an issue once you understand PCs.  And the downside of being static is that you can only get better by buying an entire new console.

 

[meilodasreh]

I'm still trying to figure out how far after the pandemic this game is set in. The cars all look old and rusted. Same goes with many houses. Paint peeling etc.. It's only appropriate that we have overgrown vegetation and trees growing in strange places if that's the case. 

I like to think we're not after the pandemic, but still in the middle of it (still hoping to see a game mechanic where there is a settlement of survivors overrun by zeds, and they all "turn", but I know it is not happening in this game)

About vegetation:

Taking into consideration that a standard post-apocalyptic tree only takes a few days from seed to its full-grown state, which would normally be assumed as a centuries-old one,

it does make it rather hard to figure out how far we're from "pre-apocalypse" judged by vegetation, right? 

But I know what you mean, this "taken over by nature" looking stuff really adds greatly to the atmosphere of abandoned places.

 

[DuHast_Play]

I wanted to clarify a long time ago. Are you planning to localize the voice acting for different regions? in Russia, for example, there is one video blogger (and he is present on the forum) who has a pleasant and rich voice apparatus. I think many players would be pleased to hear their native language in the game)

 

[Laran Mithras]

I wonder how many months of delay would be added to the game if the devs caved and slotted another 34 zombies for addition before A21 release?

8 months? 12 months?

I'm being a bit snarky here, but sort of serious.

And the reaction from everyone demanding A21 yesterday... lol

 

[faatal]

Does this mean that because of consoles, the main version of the game on the PC will be cut?Why the problem of insufficient console memory does not remain a console problem.The way the game is cut there, not on the PC.
 

Or does Unity not work well with threading?6 cores of 12 threads have long been the norm, but the game does not fully use the processor.Most people will not have processors with good performance per core because i7/i9 and R7/R9 have it, while most use i3/i5 and R3/R5 where there are 8 or more threads.We have CPU performance, but the game doesn't use it.

There are many players on PC/Mac/Linux with worse hardware than the current gen consoles, but they can still play the game because they can turn the game settings way down. The goal for current gen consoles is to have high quality settings, with good FPS and still fit in memory, which is not an easy combination.

Many operations in Unity have to be done on the main thread, but it does get a bit less restrictive with each year's changes. Their newer tech works much better with threads, but is generally more buggy or not done and requires gutting a lot of code and rewriting how you do things, which we don't have time to do.

 

[faatal]

Just out of curiosity, was the flickering tree bug fixed? If yes was this caused by negative scaling? Incorrect bounds for culling algorithm?

Maybe. I have not seen or heard anyone at the company talk about disappearing trees in months. Trees are in large groups with a single occludee that has to take into account the largest edge tree, which may also be moving from animation, so the bounds is an approximation. Too small, disappearing. Too big, inefficient.

There was an odd case, maybe a year ago where it looked like occludees were swapped, but was never reproduced.

 

[faatal]

You can't make too many assumptions about random art that was shown for a future alpha, because that does not mean it will turn out that way. We have a lot of different developers, with a variety of opinions, skills and goals and they show what they think is meaningful or interesting or cool or happens to be done.

Can I ask you a question on the matter? ... I really liked when you introduced the grass moving under the wind's pressure.

Is it possible to make even trees bend under a strong wind? I would be excited to see more "extreme" weather in the game at some point!  :rain: :smow:

Grass has a different shader than trees and use different techniques in the shader for their animation. Trees are 2 different versions of speedtree, which have a bunch of rules and limitations for how they work, some of which we don't like. To go back in time, we would probably do them differently.

 

[Guppycur]

Here you go faatal.

 

[Riamus]

Just to get back on topic... I liked seeing the variety of flags for wall decorations.  Is there any chance of getting those on flag poles as well?  And of getting a residential style flag pole (no metal supports that look horrible in residential settings)?  I had to make a custom flag pole and flag for a POI I made of a real house just because it needed a flag but the one we have doesn't work for a house.  My custom one was okay but didn't look great because it just stood out straight and unmoving.

 

[Old Crow]

Will we even be able to dye the outfits?

Or mod them? I hope those aren't going away.

 

[Old Crow]

Dyes still work in A21. My bike is brown, my baseball bat is blue, and my bow is green.

But will they work with the new outfits? And what of armor/clothing mods?

 

[Crypted]

i terms of gameplay, like i said, nothing crazy.. more melee animations per attack, better eating animations
 

Spoiler

Melee and heavy melee under the same button (press for basic and hold for heavy)
Block and Kick (press for blocking the attack lesses melee damage) (Hold to kick/shove to stun Disrupt)

Some melee weapons are faster/slower at blocking or shoving and some like knifes don't have a Block but a Heavy slash for cutting many targets.

Guns are more or less the same but able to Hold the aim button/trigger to bash zombies back

Zombies have the same too. able to grab on too you if your not careful, heavy zombies able to charge at you, leaner zombies being more agile and able to climb better 
 

I would also like better eating/drinking animations, when you eat/drink something I think it should show what it is that your eating or drinking. The melee attack animation I think should show multiple attacks (for example) with a baseball bat you could attack from side to side and from the front too. 

 

[Riamus]

Dyes still work in A21. My bike is brown, my baseball bat is blue, and my bow is green.

I think you should probably get your eyes checked. Lol.  Kidding aside, it is good to know dyes will work.  I didn't expect a change for vehicles and weapons but was concerned about armor/clothing.  Also good to know the outfits are still individual pieces.

 

[Crypted]

I know the game is still getting worked on so now might not be the right time. But I think there should be more attack animations for zombies at some point like some of them could bite you, because the zombies now just hit you.   

 

[AaronG85]

Did i hear right that if an interactive item has an open and closed model that when you search it it will revert to the open look? will this also mean that garbage on the ground will disappear opnce searched?

Reason I ask is I've used these mods for years Immersive Looting and Take Out The Trash and im just secretly hoping that Vanialla now has those features.

 

[meilodasreh]

here's a time-stamped link to the exact position in the 1st dev stream.

That should answer your question.

 

[Moldy Bread]

I imagine this has been asked to death, but I have not been here in a long time. Any idea when this thing will drop? It's been a very very long time. It's fine if there ios no answer, just curious.

On the topic of more zombies, I still wouldn't mind seeing more unique/boss/miniboss zombies. A few ideas and their inspirations.

1. Riot Zombie/ Armed Military zombies. (can't remember if it was Dead Rising that had something like this). Zombies with guns, though their rotted brains only have a loose idea of what they are for. They would be rare. They walk around, their gun hanging, upon spotting a survivor the sort of fire their gun by aiming with one hand and then firing, though the recoil send the gun and zombie spinning thus they are very inaccurate.

2. Fireman Zombies. Larger and tougher, wielding sledgehammers and fireaxes, when close they swing their axes down (strong attack) or in an arc. Both knock the player back) I imagine they would be slower than other zombies but immune to fire damage and resistant to explosives.

3. Drowned Zombie. (Inspired by the Walking Dead). Bloated with horrific rubbery skin, these zombies explode when killed, though not as violently as cop zombies but more instant.

4. Rotted/Wretched Zombies. Heavily decaying zombies that have flies visually bussing around them and a horrid stinky aura. Can't run due to decay but almost guarantee infection upon a hit. Disgusting poison aura causes slight damage to the player that get next to them or at lease blurs vision. Upon death, lets out a foul decay cloud that lingers before dissipating, causes damage or blurred vision.

5. Zombie Wolves (inspired by the Colmillos from Resident Evil 4) Heavily mutated, basically a stronger version of the zombie dog that would appear at higher game stages.

6. Necrotic Zombie. Same as a regular zombie in strength but very tough bullet sponge due to necrosis, maybe weak to some forms of attack than others.

7. Infected Survivors. (Inspired by virals from Dying Light ) Recently fallen to infection. Fast, savage and often wielding a melee weapon, though not as resilient as a feral.

8. Zombies with weapons. The rare zombie that can still remember how to hold a weapon, usually pipes, wrenches, hammers and knives. Other than that, no different from regular zombies.

9. Mutated Fireman Zombie. Mutated to be a disgusting, hulking mass of flesh and muscle and bone, basically the tank of the game. (Inspired by Demolisher in Dying Light)