PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[crazywildfire]

First of all it was not my suggestion but Amman's and Callum's. I was just arguing with them about details of their suggestions.

Secondly yes, I play on a server of 4. And for the first few days food is actually scarce but not to any serious degree. And currently we get vehicles very fast and then meat starts to pile up, especially when the winter biome is discovered. Animal population seems to respawn faster than we need new meat (it may be 3 days like zombies, don't know for sure?)

Thirdly, what do you mean with "more than 7ish" ? If you are talking about 7 or 8 then I would say that there are still enough areas to hunt because in our 4 player game we just hunt the forests around our "home town" (say 500-800 meters around town and small town itself) and that provides ample food for us. Double the number of players and they would need to increase the search radius by maybe 400m and get the area doubled. Food is probably not easy with 8 players on the same spot (co-op), but on the other hand everthing else IS with so much cooperation boosting the group.

If you mean 9 and above (on open servers, maybe even with pvp) then bets are off so to speak. In my opinion balancing that together with SP without having a separate special game mode in the game is impossible. And that is surely one reason as well that TFP is not doing any balancing for 9 players and more. Those servers need special rules anyway, for respawning whole areas, cars, maybe safe zones for newbies, max vehicle speed reduction .... So I willfully ignore those special cases too.

Oh yes, general advice to all people feeling there is not enough meat arround because they are blind to the environment (like me): One point into the hunter skill in perception is absolutely essential to notice and hunt chickens and rabbits.

And if you ask me about my opinion about the topic I would say experienced players would actually need a fix for this, but TFP will probably not change this because for new players food is at the right difficulty.

Around 7 or 8 people.  Been around for years so already know they not balancing for mega servers. But we have several groups. Spread across the map. Maybe you play on a server as one but not everyone does. Once you spread out things start to not spawn regularly once you get around 7 to 8 people on. If they are only balancing for single player and servers that play together then so be it. But you don't need 9 plus people for spawns to act up. Even bloodmoons, we have several people that hardly get a full bloodmoons. But that a different story. But back to animals we get to day 40 and if it wasn't for can food / farming we would struggle even more if we just counted on meat. We got to a point where we did mod for animal traps just to get meat to make better food because animals hardly spawn unless you talking about zombie animals and those don't give raw meat. But like I said if they are balancing for only single player and group play only then it is what it is. 

 

[Jost Amman]

First of all it was not my suggestion but Amman's and Callum's. I was just arguing with them about details of their suggestions.

What?? I never suggested nerfing canned food in loot!

I was just talking about a "general rebalance". Please don't put words in my mouth.

Around 7 or 8 people.  Been around for years so already know they not balancing for mega servers. But we have several groups. Spread across the map. Maybe you play on a server as one but not everyone does. Once you spread out things start to not spawn regularly once you get around 7 to 8 people on. If they are only balancing for single player and servers that play together then so be it. But you don't need 9 plus people for spawns to act up. Even bloodmoons, we have several people that hardly get a full bloodmoons. But that a different story. But back to animals we get to day 40 and if it wasn't for can food / farming we would struggle even more if we just counted on meat. We got to a point where we did mod for animal traps just to get meat to make better food because animals hardly spawn unless you talking about zombie animals and those don't give raw meat. But like I said if they are balancing for only single player and group play only then it is what it is. 

They should simply add a "hidden" animal spawn multiplier based on the number of players. Problem solved.

Oh yes, general advice to all people feeling there is not enough meat arround because they are blind to the environment (like me): One point into the hunter skill in perception is absolutely essential to notice and hunt chickens and rabbits.

Yes, but not more than one point, because at 2 (or was it 3?) it bugs out and doesn't work until you reach max.

Unless they fixed it for A21 that is...

 

[Gamida]

Ok so to me, no matter if you are talking of a game that is purely for fun or if it is more realistic isn't the point of it to as you progress to make your life easier. Take say tv shows or movies of zombies. One thing most have in common is people will group up and start little communities. It seems one of the things they try to do first is fix the food problem. They start farms and such.  Growing food and raising any animals they can find. Most of their problems after that is killing hordes and keeping roving bandits from coming in and taking all their crap. Again, just me, I don't mind that the game is hard on you in beginning but if by day 1000 you are still struggling just to eat enough to not starve then you must be doing something wrong and you won't survive...well you are surviving just what is the point.

I may have lost something in translation from what I was thinking to what I wrote but am hoping most of you will get it.

Was wondering why this got a thumbs down but then didn't mind so much after seeing the person who did it had given 10 posts a thumbs down in last 25 minutes.

From looks of it all in this channel.

 

[Aldranon]

In the snow biome, you get too much food, even for 8 people.  One cook and another farmer would leave 6 people blasting helpless bears, cougars and dire wolves.

On that line (unless 7D2D is a fevered dream the player is having, to wake up at the start of part 2) there should be a body fat percent. this would keep the player alive for up to 7 days before death (now you know the reason for the game title!) .  The player can regain body fat by eating more than just being full.

EDIT: While the player is using just body fat, all stats are halved.  OK now done!

 

[LostBoy]

I don't think food balance would be a problem. In the same time that you hunt for meat walking around you could consume your time with fishing. If it was fishing with a spear you would also waste some stamina. Same effort in time and stamina, same random risk to even find anything to hunt or fish at all. And the result would be 5 meat as well if they want to keep the recipes simple.

So, we've got Zombie Vultures and Zombie Bears   .   .   .  

Would adding Fish mean :

Or just :

 

[Roland]

I don't think it's about gratitude, it's about feeling justified in their opinions. It's the mindset of "if people mod it back in, then people want it, so I am justified in complaining about removing it."

I don’t have any problem with that mindset. It is a reasonable justification. Unfortunately, they never stop with that but go on to say that mods shouldn’t have to exist to make the game better (for them). They treat modding as some underground rebel movement that the devs must not want but the more they tighten their grip the more star systems slip through their fingers…

I wouldn’t say a peep if someone said, I hate the skillpoint system and I wish LBD was back but thank goodness there are mods that return it! I love that the game is so moddable. I’m glad everyone can get a version they like!!

But since they say, I hate the skillpoint system. LBD should be the base game and it’s terrible that it has to be modded in. These devs can’t do what needs to be done but modders fix all their mistakes. It shouldn’t be this way!! It’s sad when it takes mods to make the game playable!!

peep.  peep.  peep. peep…..

 

[Doomofman]

@Roland is like that old retired cop who just can't help but get back into action for one last case

 

[Aldranon]

I hate the skillpoint system and I wish LBD was back

Found the answer to your puzzle again!

Next time, make it a little harder. 

 

[meganoth]

What?? I never suggested nerfing canned food in loot!

If I understand him correctly, Crazywildfire was protesting about making food harder to get (for 8 person servers). He was complaining that it was so hard to get meat that they had to mod the game even though they were playing in the server population limits supported by TFP.

So yes, his counter-argument is square in your court.

I was just talking about a "general rebalance". Please don't put words in my mouth.

They should simply add a "hidden" animal spawn multiplier based on the number of players. Problem solved.

See, you obviously are aware that Crazy was not talking about canned food alone. . So why the indignation above?

Yes, but not more than one point, because at 2 (or was it 3?) it bugs out and doesn't work until you reach max.

Unless they fixed it for A21 that is...

I think that was a pretty old bug, I nearly forgot about it. I would have said that was fixed in A19 if I had to guess. I also don't see it on the official A20 bug list suggesting it was fixed before.

Anyway, two points in that perk is less useful as deers and pigs are much better visible.

 

[meganoth]

Around 7 or 8 people.  Been around for years so already know they not balancing for mega servers. But we have several groups. Spread across the map. Maybe you play on a server as one but not everyone does. Once you spread out things start to not spawn regularly once you get around 7 to 8 people on.

If there is a bug in the spawing system that makes animals or everything spawn differently whether you are in one group or two groups then maybe they should be asked to fix that bug.

Since agility is my prefered attribute and cleaning a POI with 4 people is already too crowded for my liking I often go separate ways. Didn't see any spawn problems that way. But it is conceivable that there is a bug that is only conspicuous or even active with actually 7 or 8 players.

Though I'd like to see actual proof of that, not only your subjective impression. AFAIK the logfile has all spawns listed. You could find a few areas in your world not visited already and multiple people could drive into each of those area. And then you could count the spawns in the logfile. If that is actually much less than what you would get on a less populated server THEN you would have a factual point.

Can you really vouch for your co-players that they aren't just overlooking all those animals left and right just because they have tunnel-vision and not the right perk for that? And later complain about having seen no animals? Sounds the much more likely cause to me.

If they are only balancing for single player and servers that play together then so be it.

They are balancing for up to 8 players and I have never seen them add anything like "...but they have to stay together"

But you don't need 9 plus people for spawns to act up. Even bloodmoons, we have several people that hardly get a full bloodmoons. But that a different story.

It might not. But are you really playing with the standard setting of 8 spawns per player? Or did you increase that?

If yes and you didn't likewise increase MaxSpawnedZombies to 8 times that value then you don't need to look for a bug. When max zombies is set at 64 and 64 / 8 players = 8 zombies per player still. So on a full server each player can only have 8 zombies on himself at the same time. If one player has 12 then another can only get 4. If two get 12 or one 16 that may mean one doesn't get anything at all.

But back to animals we get to day 40 and if it wasn't for can food / farming we would struggle even more if we just counted on meat.

Huh, who gave you the guarantee that you can feed 8 players on meat alone? "if we just counted on meat" is the wrong expectation. If you want to solve the food problem you have to farm. And there is no limit on how big a farm can get. It is always possible to feed all 8 on vegetable stews alone if it was necessary. Is it possible you just have not enough players who want to do the boring farming stuff?

We got to a point where we did mod for animal traps just to get meat to make better food because animals hardly spawn unless you talking about zombie animals and those don't give raw meat. But like I said if they are balancing for only single player and group play only then it is what it is. 

Yeah, only I'm sure they don't do that. It is possible you experience a bug and it is possible that you or your co-players are just not aware of some limitations of themselves or the game. None of those causes would make it necessary to change the balance at all.

 

[Jost Amman]

See, you obviously are aware that Crazy was not talking about canned food alone. . So why the indignation above?

Because you put words in my mouth I didn't say.

I'm not Crazy!  :heh:

 

[Roland]

Yeah, its crazy Jost Amman not Crazy Amman!

 

[BFT2020]

Huh, who gave you the guarantee that you can feed 8 players on meat alone? "if we just counted on meat" is the wrong expectation. If you want to solve the food problem you have to farm. And there is no limit on how big a farm can get. It is always possible to feed all 8 on vegetable stews alone if it was necessary. Is it possible you just have not enough players who want to do the boring farming stuff?

I also wonder what they are doing with the canned foods.  If they are eating them right away rather than taking back to base and using them for the higher tier recipes, that can also lead to food issues.  A can of chili by itself gives you 15 food, while just adding some meat and corn, you get 53 back if you cook it into a chili dog.  Gumbo gives you 113 food back if you save the stock, peas, and canned beef.  Eating the canned food at the start is fine if you are hurting for food, but by mid game you should start saving it for the higher tier foods to get more back from them.

 

[mstdv inc]

@faatal Is it possible to make a counter (status) for completing a quest?The player cleans 75% of the location from zombies and after that the final loot appears. 90% is the completion of the quest, 100% is a minor additional reward.This will allow you not to take valuable loot without clearing the location.This will save you from problems if the last zombie did not appear.This will allow you to create the final loot that best matches the loot stage.

 

[Jost Amman]

@faatal Is it possible to make a counter (status) for completing a quest?

There's already the trader's counter when you go get the reward.  :heh:

 

[Burrfly]

I was just asking about this as it happens, and I was told there is no plan for animations on stations due to the logistics involved.

if cementMixer == enabled then

    animation.Rotatelay()

else

    animation.Rotate:Stop()

(I know it's not that simple)

 

[beerfly]

peep.  peep.  peep. peep…..

Boom !

Wonder, is Matt alright after his latest order in front of a news stand. Demolishers are nasty, are they ? 

 

[meilodasreh]

if cementMixer == enabled then

    animation.Rotatelay()

else

    animation.Rotate:Stop()

(I know it's not that simple)

it is even more simple:

put cement mixer in hotbar

select cement mixer

select "advanced rotation" from the "item placement" menu

click or shift+click to rotate cement mixer the way you like most

(I also know it's not that simple...or never was meant that way altogether) 

 

[Trankitas]

@faatal How many MF's are left? I was going to start a new A20 server but I feel like A21 is close to release. 

 

[Gamida]

@faatal How many MF's are left? I was going to start a new A20 server but I feel like A21 is close to release. 

I think they will announce the streamer weekend before even experimental gets released so would guess there is still a bit of time to play a game or two of A20