PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary
- Thread starter Roland
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Roland
Moderator
Work on the new console version is already underway. It will be fully compatible and consistent to the PC version. We don't know how long of a time span there will be after the PC version releases and the console versions release but it shouldn't be too long of a wait.
Riamus
Well-known member
It's funny... I typically find the gas can schematic on day one or maybe two, and the chem station schematic in one of the first couple chem stations I loot, which is often from the trader's chem station. Those are some of the easiest schematics to find for me.
bdubyah
Well-known member
Same here. And I know it's RNG and all, but between the chances of looting the schem, or the trader having either the schem or the whole station, it's not hard to get one if you try. And you always have the fallback of perking into it. Not sure about A21, but in A20 you can unlock it from either Physician or Advanced Engineering.
Aldranon
New member
Done worry!
I told Liam Neeson at his book signing "It isn't easy being a god", that I needed an extraction team with a special set of skills.
He handed me this and called "Security!"
As they were dragging me out of the convention hall he yelled "Don't worry, he likes nuts!"
I don't know what that meant, but if you find this guy tell him we need his help!
RipClaw
Well-known member
The bottleneck is not the schematics but the beaker that you need to build one. There have been several threads in this forum from players who couldn't find a beaker even in the late game.
Yes, you can buy the chemistry station from the trader if he offers it. And you can also get it as a quest reward when you complete the tier 3 quests. But this is all RNG.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
They should add the possibility to craft the Beaker, maybe as one of the last recipes in the Tools magazine series.
That way it'll become "deterministic" but you'll have to work hard to get there if RNG fails and find the necessary high grade materials and stuff as ingredients.
BFT2020
Well-known member
@bdubyah @RipClaw Both approaches are legitimate ways to limit gasoline, but have different pros and cons (though these will change in A21)
Keeping it as is, you are dependent on RNG (but can use perks in certain instances) in order to get supplies of gas) - beaker, chemistry station (perk also), gas recipe (perk also). But once you got all of those items, the only thing limiting you at that point is A) time to mine the resources, and B) capacity (how many chem stations you have up and running). And at end game, it really is trivial at that point to make gasoline.
Changing the recipe, reducing yield - as of A20, still depends on RNG, but with A21, some of the unlocks will now be tied to the magazines. Depending on how you change the recipe and yield amounts, this would increase the effort required to produce gasoline. Sure you can still harvest a ton of shale, but that decreases the time you would spend on other activities. EDIT - you can also increase the time to craft it.
Another approach - remove shale as a source of gas altogether (leave it for oil though). Add gasoline as purchasable from traders. Then your sources are just finding it as loot or buying it from traders. This would be the more extreme way of limiting gas. Might have to add a biofuel option that players can gather and craft to supplement the gas from the traders. Heck, you could even combine it with @doughphunghusidea about higher grade gasolines. Maybe have the lower quality engine items (minibike, tools, generators) run off of either biofuel or gasoline, but items like the motorcycle, 4x4, and gyro require gasoline only.
Keeping it as is, you are dependent on RNG (but can use perks in certain instances) in order to get supplies of gas) - beaker, chemistry station (perk also), gas recipe (perk also). But once you got all of those items, the only thing limiting you at that point is A) time to mine the resources, and B) capacity (how many chem stations you have up and running). And at end game, it really is trivial at that point to make gasoline.
Changing the recipe, reducing yield - as of A20, still depends on RNG, but with A21, some of the unlocks will now be tied to the magazines. Depending on how you change the recipe and yield amounts, this would increase the effort required to produce gasoline. Sure you can still harvest a ton of shale, but that decreases the time you would spend on other activities. EDIT - you can also increase the time to craft it.
Another approach - remove shale as a source of gas altogether (leave it for oil though). Add gasoline as purchasable from traders. Then your sources are just finding it as loot or buying it from traders. This would be the more extreme way of limiting gas. Might have to add a biofuel option that players can gather and craft to supplement the gas from the traders. Heck, you could even combine it with @doughphunghusidea about higher grade gasolines. Maybe have the lower quality engine items (minibike, tools, generators) run off of either biofuel or gasoline, but items like the motorcycle, 4x4, and gyro require gasoline only.
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RipClaw
Well-known member
The question is whether it is even necessary to limit gasoline in the late game and what sense it would have at all. Even water will be limited in A21 only by the number of dew collectors and according to some who already played A21 you will be able to build the dew collector very early in the game and the trader has the filter always in stock.
Hardcore survival players want everything to always be scarce, but as I understand the balancing of the Fun Pimps, the goal is to overcome scarcity at a certain point in the game.
Roland
Moderator
QFT.
There is supposed to be a progression from struggling to thriving in each aspect of survival represented in the game.
Annihilatorza
New member
Pretty much exactly that, not everyone wants to spend weeks grinding for every ounce of fuel or scrap of food.
I simply don't have the time to do so, why they give you the options, loot 50%, never respawn, no planes, feral zombies ect ect.
bdubyah
Well-known member
But what does a loot option have to do with mining oil shale? Sure, 50% loot would reduce the bits of gas from pumps and stuff, but that isn't much to begin with. And I love the idea of running 50% or 75% loot, and I have in several games, but I'm not a fan of the way the game handles reduced loot.
And I never said anything about gas always being a crazy struggle. I do feel how it is now is too easy even for end game times. And sure, the beakers are RNG but for all the games I've played I have never had the issues some people have of being day 50 or 100 or whatever with not even one beaker to show for it. Maybe with reduced loot or no airdrops or not using traders it becomes an issue, but then you can't really complain.
I agree with this. Which is the point to my original post about gas. Yes, you need a beaker and a chem station, but getting those items doesn't take long enough in an average game to justify that being all it takes to have unlimited gas. And yes, I'm aware you still have to mine the oil shale and that somehow seems like a whole ordeal to some, but if you can't manage your time wisely enough to spend part of one day mining enough shale to last your whole play through, then that's on you. Vehicles in general are a bit easy mode in A20 thanks to the OP traders. Between them constantly having either the vehicle or parts themselves, the schems to make them or giving you a whole vehicle as a quest tier reward, it's easier than ever to get one and keep it fueled. I guess it's just a continuation from the last couple alphas of making the game easier in general.
Annihilatorza
New member
Well this whole discussion might be a totally mute point for the following reasons.
Secret stash is gone
Traders have been rebalanced
The whole skill tree progress is totally different now
Looting is reworked
Vehicles have been changed
So my take is that until we get to play this new game, which all the changes it will be a completely new game to most of us, we will have to speculate and guess.
BFT2020
Well-known member
Personally, I prefer struggling to getting by with hard work. With vanilla, once I reach a certain point in the game, it just seems to be too easy to survive. No issues with ammo, no issues getting gear or anything I may need. There are ways to artificially increase the difficulty, but I am not a big fan of bullet sponges that run faster than me (to make it more difficult). You can even stop doing missions and just loot POIs at a certain point. All the extra gear you find you can easily sell back to the trader to earn a ton of dukes. At that point, continuing on is until I get bored and start over.
But I know that my vision of how to play is not the same that others would want, which is why I am extremely glad that this middle aged gamer can mod the game to his desires. My current playthrough I am around Day 54 with the next horde coming up soon. I got 0 Q6 gear as the only ones I found so far have long been used up and broken. I am still using my minibike as I haven't found the schematic to unlock the motorcycle accessories yet. I got enough food and drink to last me the next 3 days with a supply of about 54 murky water that I been gathering by looting any toilet or water fountain I have found while looting (and even that is being rationed between glue production, food production, and drinks). Am I struggling? Not at all, as I can now craft a Q5 smg and Q5 machete. However, I am clearly not thriving as I have to work hard to replenish my ammo supplies from the last horde night and constantly having to replace broken gear......and I am finding that this has been so much fun (when you get excited finding a half damaged Q4 wrench in loot, I know I am doing it right
).A21 I am anticipating and already decided to play vanilla a few times to see what the team has done. But I know I will probably eventually modify my mod to work with A21 as my playstyle / vision is not the same as TFP. And I am okay with that.
beerfly
Colony Rounder
Aldranon
New member
well, not yet
You hear the future howls of pain and anguish too?
The best part is finding out what the howls will be about. It's like Christmas finding out.
RipClaw
Well-known member
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