outhous
New member
Why would this be needed as an option/setting? You can just quit the game when you die? Why would/should TFP spend time working on an option that the player can easily accomplish already?
PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
- Status
Astronomical
New member
Maybe for those weak willed individuals who suffer from impulse control and commitment difficulties?
Oh not me of course I'm, uh ..asking for a friend?
@maxousara I believe there has been talk, but nothing officially announced. Not sure it would be implemented before gold.
Of course they could do it on their own now. But it's not like they're asking for a huge lift here (we're likely talking a few lines of code) and MANY games have permadeath options where players could easily self-impose it. It's a logical question to ask.
This is why I set my games to DELETE ALL when I die. Gives me just enough incentive to start a new run.Maybe for those weak willed individuals who suffer from impulse control and commitment difficulties?
Oh not me of course I'm, uh ..asking for a friend?
Last edited by a moderator:
If you don't mind, what are the specs of the dedicated server? I just cobbled one together with some friends, but we haven't set it up yet. I have no real frame of reference for what kind of performance we should expect.
Fanatical_Meat
Well-known member
I am running it on a 3800x, 32GB 3200 ram, I was doing an ssd but I moved up to a gen 3 PCIE NVME WD Black.
I run the game client & server client on the same machine, I typically have 4 to 5 players connected (this includes me).
I have few horde night problems I’ve had it set for 16 zombies per player. This doesn’t mean it is problem free but it is not a slide show either. People connected with various aged machines seem to have problems when zombies go above 8 per player and 12 is the max tolerable.
My internet speed is 100 up & down.
Edit: server doesn’t care about video card but game does. I currently use a 1660ti.
Simply put, the unity game engine just doesn’t appear to be super awesome at tracking a bunch of entities. Works fine until it slows then it slows rapidly. I do not think it is a reasonable expectation to think you’ll have hundreds of zombies and players doing stuff all at the same time.
Last edited by a moderator:
It is a rented virtual server, the provider isn't very forthcoming with that info and inside the virtual machine you can't see the real hardware. But 2 years ago he installed new AMD EPYC's and I changed immediately since the older generation didn't cut it.
As usual with server CPUs clock is relatively low with about 2.1-2.3 Ghz (it didn't even change between the two gens), but the big caches and data paths make up for that.
What you can do is run a test game and look into the server logfile. If you see the server is always above 20 (a limit below which the game does not work correctly anymore) and not fluctuating wildly you're good. I looked into one of my logfiles now and FPS there was usually around 37 and the lowest value I could find was 29 (except for the two values at startup and shutdown).
Last edited by a moderator:
Because they have talk about that before not a reason for be angry lol this is just a question nothing else the game is almost finish anyway if they have time for that why not.
I'm happy to see somebody understand me haha@maxousara I believe there has been talk, but nothing officially announced. Not sure it would be implemented before gold.
Of course they could do it on their own now. But it's not like they're asking for a huge lift here (we're likely talking a few lines of code) and MANY games have permadeath options where players could easily self-impose it. It's a logical question to ask.
This is why I set my games to DELETE ALL when I die. Gives me just enough incentive to start a new run.
Zombiepoptard
Active member
The main point is the grouping of skills unrelated to features of the game in said trees. You should have more combat skills so that it would work like how you said. There should be a separate point system for combat and life style skills. You'd still have trees but it wouldn't feel like the game is choosing for you on those 2 big chooses that are completely unrelated. I should be able to progress towards a farming and sniper build without investing a boat load of skill points on these gatekeeping attribute system. My argument isn't that skill trees are dumb my argument is how you guys implemented skill trees is kinda dumb.
The two types of skills need to be separated and combat skills need to be expanded. Why do you see build videos for other rpg games and not for 7 days to die? You only see guides for what skills you should start out with. Maybe it's because the combat rpg portion of the game leaves much to be desired but first you need to reorganize how you guys do skills trees.
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't understand this sentence. There are no skills unrelated to features of the game.
In what way does it not work, which of the 3 reasons I gave does not work because there are too few combat skills? Maybe give an example.
There are a lot of possible RPG systems. Your proposed system is used by Obsidians Pillars of Eternity series for example where social skills are separated from weapons skills. As I said TFP uses a system more like AD&D/Pathfinder. Those RPGs have a stricter class system and players are also limited in their choices by the attributes (i.e. you can't select a feat with less than 14 INT, or you could but it would make no sense).
In other words: Some RPGs give the player more, some give less freedom in their choices.
What is missing a little in TFPs scheme is a strong theme, an explanation with which to explain the limits and groupings. AD&D calls a class Rogue and many of the skills and feats thematically follow from how people think a rogue could or should be, but not all.
TFP tries to do this from attribute directly to perk and that works for half or 3/4th of the perks and the rest looks somewhat unconnected. The theme is there but it often is a weak link only.
But that doesn't mean it fails at being a sort of half-open class system.
Last edited by a moderator:
Uncle Al
Active member
I completely agree on this one.
I think if the attributes had been called something like "Thug, Hunter, Technician, Assassin, Tough Guy" or whatever, then much of the dissonance a few people get from the attribute system wouldn't occur. I do understand why 'How come putting points into strength doesn't make me hit things harder with a spear?" is a complaint that comes up fairly regularly. Folks are used to thinking of attributes working in a certain way in RPGs. In 7DTD they are called attributes but actually much closer in function to what would traditionally be class levels.
Not certain how much effort a change would be. Might be worth considering to make the game more intuitive for new players, but I doubt it's a top priority even if it has been considered.
The most important reason is dying on a pub server with absentee admins. If you want to keep playing on the same server, you need an admin to delete your dead player profile files in order to start over.
I suggest permadeath for people like me who played major part of time in solo. If you active that on multiplayer its just too complicated and not recommended we have some situation for this options and other not. This is why is suggest an (options) for have the choice its not my fault if people can't use this options correctly like the people complain about 7 days is too easy or too hard but can't ajust their settings.
Zombiepoptard
Active member
@meganoth
If you were to separate the social skills from the combat skills this is what you would be left with.
This emphasizes the trees that are lacking perks relating to combat.
Orange is weapon related yellow is combat support perks
Perception: Has few support perks
Dead Eye
Demolition
Javelin Master
The Infiltrator
(weak to situational needs a buff) The Infiltrator
Strength: Has few support perks
Boomstick
Pummel Pete
Skull Crusher
Heavy Armor
Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Fortitude: Relatively good but still needs more perks in general
The Brawler
Machine Gunner
Pain Tolerance
Healing Factor
(maybe) Rule 1: Cardio
Agility: Perfect
Archery
Gunslinger
Deep Cuts
Run and Gun
Flurry of Blows
Light Armor
Parkour
Hidden Strike
From The Shadows
Intellect: Few weapons no support perks turrets are fun though
Electrocutioner
Robotics
Social Perks: All the none combat perks would be on this tree without the gate keeping attribute system. Some skills will cost more points to level up.
My idea would included fleshing the combat perks out then having a separate tree for the social skills. I feel like I'm wasting my points when I cross trees to play the game differently and that's partly due to the type of perks that are rapped together. This is a multi-genre game that should have a skill system that is optimized for it. Combat and social perks shouldn't step on each others toes just to bring the illusion of a filled out skill tree. Add more depth add more perks.
If you were to separate the social skills from the combat skills this is what you would be left with.
This emphasizes the trees that are lacking perks relating to combat.
Orange is weapon related yellow is combat support perks
Perception: Has few support perks
Dead Eye
Demolition
Javelin Master
The Infiltrator
(weak to situational needs a buff) The Infiltrator
Strength: Has few support perks
Boomstick
Pummel Pete
Skull Crusher
Heavy Armor
Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Fortitude: Relatively good but still needs more perks in general
The Brawler
Machine Gunner
Pain Tolerance
Healing Factor
(maybe) Rule 1: Cardio
Agility: Perfect
Archery
Gunslinger
Deep Cuts
Run and Gun
Flurry of Blows
Light Armor
Parkour
Hidden Strike
From The Shadows
Intellect: Few weapons no support perks turrets are fun though
Electrocutioner
Robotics
Social Perks: All the none combat perks would be on this tree without the gate keeping attribute system. Some skills will cost more points to level up.
My idea would included fleshing the combat perks out then having a separate tree for the social skills. I feel like I'm wasting my points when I cross trees to play the game differently and that's partly due to the type of perks that are rapped together. This is a multi-genre game that should have a skill system that is optimized for it. Combat and social perks shouldn't step on each others toes just to bring the illusion of a filled out skill tree. Add more depth add more perks.
My current dedicated server is a 6600K, 16 Gb RAM, SSD drive, LAN to internet and a 2060.
No clients report any issues with 7D2D (max was 5) and server always appears to have lots of headroom.
@meganoth
If you were to separate the social skills from the combat skills this is what you would be left with.
This emphasizes the trees that are lacking perks relating to combat.
Orange is weapon related yellow is combat support perks
Perception: Has few support perks
Dead Eye
Demolition
Javelin Master
The Infiltrator
(weak to situational needs a buff) The Infiltrator
Strength: Has few support perks
Boomstick
Pummel Pete
Skull Crusher
Heavy Armor
Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Fortitude: Relatively good but still needs more perks in general
The Brawler
Machine Gunner
Pain Tolerance
Healing Factor
(maybe) Rule 1: Cardio
Agility: Perfect
Archery
Gunslinger
Deep Cuts
Run and Gun
Flurry of Blows
Light Armor
Parkour
Hidden Strike
From The Shadows
Intellect: Few weapons no support perks turrets are fun though
Electrocutioner
Robotics
Social Perks: All the none combat perks would be on this tree without the gate keeping attribute system. Some skills will cost more points to level up.
My idea would included fleshing the combat perks out then having a separate tree for the social skills. I feel like I'm wasting my points when I cross trees to play the game differently and that's partly due to the type of perks that are rapped together. This is a multi-genre game that should have a skill system that is optimized for it. Combat and social perks shouldn't step on each others toes just to bring the illusion of a filled out skill tree. Add more depth add more perks.
Additional combat perks sound nice but are there really that many parameters left which new perks could influence? I think TFP wants weapons to feel different so for example AOE damage in fortitude guns or a damage over time (like bleed, even if called differently) on a speer or knuckles would make the weapon choice less relevant.
And we have a class that would be impossible in your scheme: Select INT and you are the brainy type with gadgets and social skills. BUT he is no fighter and has a harder time in combat. Your separation would make such a weak combat/high social class impossible. You would need to balance all weapons so they are equal otherwise nobody would select the weak ones.
I'm not saying your scheme is bad. It is another scheme that would be quite possible, with some advantages and disadvantages. But also lots of work and difficulties to find more combat perks and something that would push release back another alpha. And the ridicule of people who say TFP rehauls too much would increase tenfold not that that matters much
But I'm not TFP. What I say is irrelevant and just guesswork. Just know that other forum posters have proposed similar schemes to TFP already and TFP did not adopt them (yet).
Supplementary info: I found hints in their forum that the server CPU I got is likely an Epyc 7702.
Thank you all so much for the info. I think what you just listed is very close to what we scrounged together, so that's promising.
Zombiepoptard
Active member
Additional combat perks sound nice but are there really that many parameters left which new perks could influence? I think TFP wants weapons to feel different so for example AOE damage in fortitude guns or a damage over time (like bleed, even if called differently) on a speer or knuckles would make the weapon choice less relevant.
And we have a class that would be impossible in your scheme: Select INT and you are the brainy type with gadgets and social skills. BUT he is no fighter and has a harder time in combat. Your separation would make such a weak combat/high social class impossible. You would need to balance all weapons so they are equal otherwise nobody would select the weak ones.
I'm not saying your scheme is bad. It is another scheme that would be quite possible, with some advantages and disadvantages. But also lots of work and difficulties to find more combat perks and something that would push release back another alpha. And the ridicule of people who say TFP rehauls too much would increase tenfold not that that matters much
But I'm not TFP. What I say is irrelevant and just guesswork. Just know that other forum posters have proposed similar schemes to TFP already and TFP did not adopt them (yet).
I know your not a dev I just had to throw my idea out there. People get mad at things that feel like a change with out adding any depth. I'm betting they could find some more perks to throw in the game.
Roland
Moderator
If you are willing to have some skills cost more points to level up then the current organization handles that exactly. The non-combat perks that are in your chosen attribute cost less and the ones that are in other attributes cost more.
Under your system, the same non-combat perks would always be the same every time you played. If Living off the Land was chosen to be an expensive perk to level up it would always be so every single game. In the current system, Living off the Land is cheap whenever you decide to do Fortitude but expensive whenever you choose to follow one of the other attributes so there is some variance in play.
I don't understand why you are willing to allow some skills to be more expensive and some to be cheaper but currently hate paying more for skills that outside of your chosen tree. It is the same thing but with the added bonus that you also gain some ability in other weapons.
Your Way
I choose Strength for my main attribute.
I want to farm so I pay the more expensive upgrade costs of Living off the Land
All I get for those extra costs are the perks and skills granted by living off the land.
Current Way
I choose Strength for my main attribute.
I want to farm so I pay the more expensive upgrade costs of Living off the Land
I get the LotL perks plus my headshot chances and damage increases whenever I use machine guns and knuckles.
Extra cost is extra cost. You already admitted that you would be fine paying extra cost for some non-combat perks if they were moved out of the attribute trees into a general category. So if you are fine with that added cost why are you not okay with the current added costs?
I like how you organized and showed the relative strengths and weaknesses of each tree where it concerns combat. I think that what your organization doesn't show is the advantages some attributes have in noncombat skills being cheaper if you pick that attribute (because you removed them). This is important because it makes the attributes asymmetrical in nature granting different challenges and higher difficulties depending on what is chosen.
Callum123456789
Active member
Could also be because the games in alpha too right? And not everyone can have a pc that's worth something like $2000. And more notably the game doesn't handle so many zombies like it used to since they're all HD zombies if you have like a horde of 60 they will affect your pc 10x more than the original zombie models would as well as that the game is unoptimised and each alpha the optimisation need is getting higher and higher I think the general audience of this game generally don't have beasts of a pc like me my pc is equivalent to a $750 pc but yet I still have fps issues especially in the downtown area.I never have FPS problems and I play on max settings. Just a 1500€ computer and it plays super smootheven If I break tall buildings, no lag ^^ If you have a potato there, you might need to change graphic settings or upgrade your pc. If thats not the case jst wait, the performance will definitely be better^^
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status