PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Numberz]

Yes. All magazines drop randomly for every player. When you take a perk that corresponds to a particular magazine then you will tend to find more of that magazine but you still find a wide variety. It is a subtle change. A lot of people fearing that people who hate to loot will have a huge disadvantage but I think their teammates will still be bringing home magazines they can use-- especially if they go to a location known to have those types of magazines.

Having run a dedicated server with a form of learn by looting for the past year, what I have observed is that people still tend toward specialization.  Most, but certainly not all, players that group into parties will dedicate into specific skills.  Or or two will try to max vehicles, one of two in building and construction, one or two in weapons, etc.  The magazines which are brought back to be shared are typically only done so after those who have specialized have already maxxed out the skill.  If I can make a suggestion, if each skill had multiple tiers of magazines such that tier 1 magazines are of no benefit to a player who has already achieved a certain skill level and so on, it may go some way to promoting the type of equitable play style that you are describing.

 

[Telly G]

I think that if we were able to turn resources you could produce in the woods into skill books over time that would resolve people's gripes with the upcoming system. Same for machining parts, though that could be high end for engineering or something. 

 

[Paiper Zombee]

This is why I suggested lowering the amount of levels and adding the ability to buy them via skill points.

Because not everyone wants to worry about looting to get the stuff they need.

From what I understood, they said that the magazines will also be available from the traders as quest rewards and offer them for sale. For their trading inventory, I would assume, that all magazines are equally likely to appear for sale.

So you could still do your looting / questing / fighting and then after visiting the trader, buy some magazines for your friends skills from the excess dukes you made. Probably the leveling for your friends at home base won't be as fast, but they could still get to the point of leveling their own specialization's crafting skill over time.

Let us hope this is true when it comes to the traders and that they will offer a variety of all books and not have set their table set to focus on the player and how they've spec'd instead. 

The conversation has mostly been about weapons, but this sounds like this change will also extend to skills as well. If you like mining and building, but can't stand looting and killing, that's too bad. If you want to get better at mining and building you still need to, as they used to say in those commercials back in the day, "Read The Book". And how long is it going to take for the looter (who will more than likely NOT be perked into mining) to find those mining books and bring them back for the miner? And will that even work past the first set of books? Hopefully books and magazines will be universal to their perk, meaning all one needs to do is collect 50-100 books for the perk and it's all good. But if the books aren't universal, i.e. only Books 1-5 will only appear at Rank 1 of the perk, while Books 6-10 will only appear at Rank 2 of the perk and so on...then this is going to create the situation that was mentioned in this topic where the looters will have to become jacks of all trades so that they're able to loot all the books that the others who don't loot will need. 

I know it is human nature to fear the worst case scenario but you guys can relax a bit. Your fears are unfounded. You find a wide variety of magazines all the time. What you perk into shows up a bit more often but it isn’t overwhelming. 
 

There is nothing that I have witnessed to make me think that I’m getting other mags less because I perked into archery. If someone is the primary looter they will bring home plenty of mags outside of their perks. 
 

Most of the paper drops in book shelves and piles have been replaced by mags so they are much more satisfying. Book stores will definitely be treasure troves of lost knowledge but….what’s wrong with that?  Seems logical. I would even say that when a book store is found, the entire team could gather to go through and split up the book shelves. I can’t imagine anyone hating looting so fiercely that they wouldn’t share in the spoils of a bookstore.

This change won’t be everyone’s cup of tea obviously but I think a good number of people will find it fun and fresh. 

Yes. All magazines drop randomly for every player. When you take a perk that corresponds to a particular magazine then you will tend to find more of that magazine but you still find a wide variety. It is a subtle change. A lot of people fearing that people who hate to loot will have a huge disadvantage but I think their teammates will still be bringing home magazines they can use-- especially if they go to a location known to have those types of magazines.

Okay Roland...I'm trusting you when you say that you're getting other mags outside your perk on a regular enough basis. It'll make what I said above null and void, unless it's the Book 1-5 only found at Perk Rank 1 and Books 6-10 only found at Perk Rank 2. And it's also good to hear that bookstores are getting updated to actually have *gasp* books and magazines!

My best guess is because the previous iteration was mostly insignificant?  For example, apart from crafting multiple junk turrets (INT playthrough), I personally never crafted other weapons / armor because I could always find better in loot (or at the trader) before I could find the parts needed for them let alone being perked high enough to have the higher quality.

To me, that is a system that needs attention and would need improvement.

I always disliked this because it's most often the issue. You can buy or possibly find the items that you want before you ever get the parts to make them, ESPECIALLY when it comes to junk turrets. I've always wondered why, once spec'd into a specific weapon type, one didn't learn how to make the parts for those said weapons as part of the perk. To use World of Warcraft as an example it would be like taking enchanting, but finding out that you can't break stuff down to turn them into the materials needed for enchanting, you have to go find them in loot or on vendors.

The reasons for the change that I have gotten from Madmole:

He wants the design have players move through each tech stage and not so easily skip over one or have one barely be significant.

He wants the crafting progression to be longer and to not double or triple up. No longer will being able to craft a blue stone tool mean you can automatically craft a blue iron or steel tool. The player has to learn how to craft every item separately and improve their crafting for that item separately. 
 

He wants more rewarding loot and the magazines fill out the containers. They are an exciting reward to get and there are so many varieties and duplicates that you need that it keeps looting exciting for a long time. 
 

It encourages more scavenging. Containers that used to quickly become boring and irrelevant boxes of worthless junk now often have a magazine.

He heard a lot of feedback about people not liking crafting recipes tied to the attributes and he agreed so he wanted to decouple crafting from the attribute trees. 
 

Those are what I’ve heard him say specifically. 
 

Thank you Roland for this insight. It's good to know where this change is coming from and why. 

Weapons and tools should have a finite lifespan. I don’t think they should degrade to lower quality tiers. They just should become unrepairable. Maybe you can repair something twice but after that the repair kit doesn’t work and the item is only good for parts. This would be a significant change to improve both crafting and looting. I did a play through where I immediately scrapped repair kits and it was great. I’ll probably start that up again. Repairs for primitive stuff is fine but anything that needs a repair kit should be limited.  Think about the diamond edge mod that extends durability. Who the heck cares how long durability lasts when a single repair kit restores it to full again? 

Please no when it comes to weapon and tools having a finite life span. I think the system as it is is good and repair kits are fine in what they provide. I do not want to have to worry about completely rebuilding my weapons and tools every time they break. I'd never mine again. lol.

 

[Trankitas]

Are there any sneak peeks from bandit related stuff?

Since the T-pose models that you showed on February I've been itching to see some more.

 

[BenZ0]

I have a question about something that is very annoying over time. When I am at a trader checking what they have and I see a perk book, I always have to get out of the trader, go to my perk book section and go find now that perk book series and check if I have that exact book already learned previously or not. This process itsself isnt the worst thing ever but if you have to do it EVERY time it does get annoying. Same goes to looting with friends, every time if someone finds a perk book or schematic me and my friends have to check it by looking up always these things and repeat this process over and over every time you something new. 

I would like to suggest a small tooltip window if you hover over a perk book or schematic in a loot container or a trader that shows you which perk books you have and which not of that series. Sure you can keep in mind some things but it would be just easier and such a great quality of life change having a small tooltip that just simply shows you what you have and what not.

 

[Wizard77]

Yes, because we all need vehicles that have 'BONG' on them. Typical Fun Pimps. I'm all for inuendo, but do we need to have cars that promote drugs? 

So far, I'm feeling quite disappointed by the upcoming Alpha 21. Yes, the new designs look pretty, but how does it affect game play? Do we need fancy new doors? Why not focus on fixing the damn zombie AI? I sure hope they stop them glitching through walls, like hatches etc. This was a problem back in A19. I might be jumping the gun, but they just don't seem to get it. 

 

[Mahnogard]

I always have to get out of the trader, go to my perk book section and go find now that perk book series and check if I have that exact book already learned previously or not.

If you've already read the book, the book icon is an open book instead of a closed book. Same for schematics / recipes.

 

[LordCorellon]

One thing I'm learning in a big way is that not all teams work together in the same way. The change is barely going to register as a disruption in how my group functions.

And one thing I know, YOUR group doesnt play the same as every other group in the game. To assume the way YOUR group plays is how every other group plays is quite disconnected from your player base.

Remember the hell that A16-A17 caused? That fiasco is going to pale to what A21 is going to do.

You either cannot see this, or are unwilling to see this. Your player base is telling you this is going to be BAD, and you wont listen.

 

[Blake_]

You still get good at using bows (and other weapons) by spending skill points for perks. The magazines only determine what you can personally craft but what you can be good at is not controlled by rng at all.

Hello Roland or whoever wants to answer (this is very personal to each player), I have questions about the a21 gameplay "feeling":

.Have you played a bit with the new system?

.What can you tell us about magazine finding? To you, Is it engaging or a bother (can it be a daunting task or does it just reward you as you take risks )?

.Do you find crafting superior or equal than looting the same item/weapon?

. What's your credit card number?

 

[faatal]

@faatal, I have a bunch of questions.

1.Are there any new vehicle mods planned, like bigger storage, mounted weapons, solar pannels with batteries for ditching fuel  or cool stuff like that?

2. Is there anything you can tell us about POI triggers like trap doors or things that might be relevant when bandits are in?

3.Any word on expanded New Game options like 5%-10% loot ranges, or 240/480 min days and the like? What I mean to ask is if we can expect some love there in the future.

4. Do you know if hostile npcs will protect air drops in the first iteration?

5. What are you working on at the moment?

6. May I ask you to consider a short video of the naked White Afro guy someday? I found the character quite deep and engaging in all his gameplay appearances. He needn't be revealing any feature. His presence is enough to shine upon us the light of the Jiggling Hair church.

Thanks in advance !

1 No new mods, but showing the mods on the vehicle. Don't know if it will make A21.

2 Not yet.

3 No changes there.

4 Probably not.

5 I've been working on AI director clean up, some block rendering cleanup, bug fixes and improvements for our new opaque+glass blocks (downgrade, upgrade, drops).

6 I don't make videos, but the day may come when I feel so inclined.

 

[faatal]

Here's an easy question.

Planning to update the unity version again? I noticed 2021.3 is LTS now, so are you folks planning to update to that, or a 2022.x version?

Yes. I've been developing A21 using 2021 LTS. Currently on 2021.3.3 with plans for the rest of the team to switch in a few weeks.

 

[katarynna]

Regarding the new crafting system, does the boost you get to magazine loot keep increasing the more points you put into a perk? Or is it a one time boost that you get when you spend your first point in the perk, that doesn't change as you spend even more points?

For example, i get a boost to my chances of finding shotgun mags when i spend a point into the shotguns perk. If i spend 3 points in shotguns, do i have an even higher chance of finding shotgun magazines than when i only had one point there?

 

[Blake_]

5 I've been working on AI director clean up, some block rendering cleanup, bug fixes and improvements for our new opaque+glass blocks (downgrade, upgrade, drops).

Sweet! I probably shouldn't feel excited about improved reflection shaders, but they are mesmerizing! 7dtd's reflecting blocks are quite lacking in what they reflect right now, so that is good news. 

The AI Director being prepared to handle the future without crashing is also good news, though we knew you knew we knew you were already working on that.

 

[Roland]

And one thing I know, YOUR group doesnt play the same as every other group in the game. To assume the way YOUR group plays is how every other group plays is quite disconnected from your player base.

I never claimed my group is representative of everyone. I just stated that it appears people play together differently and offered my own feedback that my group at least isn't going to argue with each other and be completely destroyed by the change.  What's funny is that you are the one claiming that everyone is going to be as upset as you are so it is actually you assuming that your group is representative of the player base.

Remember the hell that A16-A17 caused? That fiasco is going to pale to what A21 is going to do.

I do remember all the salt from that change and yet here we are on the other side of that with a game that is way more popular and way more played than ever before (yes even more than A16). This change may generate a huge backlash or it may not. I'm not sure because so far the feedback based only on the description has been mixed but with most of the negative posters saying that they'll be willing to give it a play before making final judgement. Very very few are at the point of "the sky is falling!"

I really doubt it will be as big as the A17 change. People have been wanting the crafting recipes separated from the perks for a long time and have been complaining about the hardship of finding the correct parts for crafting and of typically finding a better version of their perked weapon than they can even craft. This system goes a long way towards granting those long-standing community wishes. This is just a guess but I think most people who play this game do enjoy looting and since this makes looting even more rewarding I think it will be seen as a positive. The one big possible downside is how certain team dynamics might be affected but we just don't know yet whether teams will be able to adjust and settle into a new homeostasis with the new system or if the organ will be rejected and the teamwork will die. That's what early access testing will show us.

Part of the problem feeding your fear is that people are imagining perking into something and suddenly those are the only magazines they ever find. That is not true. It is a slight boost to the probability. You are going to still find a wide variety of magazines. In fact, I suspect that some people will complain that their supposed boost doesn't seem to be working. @Paiper Zombee amirite? lol

You either cannot see this, or are unwilling to see this. Your player base is telling you this is going to be BAD, and you wont listen.

I think I demonstrated an ability to see and you are not the player base. There have been some concerns voiced and some posts outright rejecting the idea and angry that a change "we didn't ask for" was made without permission. But there have also been a lot of excited and hopeful posts and measured responses from people willing to give it a try and happy to get an update about A21. So who isn't listening to what's going on with the players who have posted so far. I have acknowledged the critics and the proponents and those inbetween. You seem to only see the negative posts. Wait! Let me guess! ALL of the people who posted something positive are just fanboy sheep who blindly clap at whatever the developers release but you and the people who are against changing anything are the only intelligent far-thinking people in tune with the player base and the pulse of how most people play the game...

Relax.   We know some people don't want the change and we know some people are worried about how it will affect multiplayer. These things will be considered but the change is going to happen (already happened actually) and the devs want to see the player base try it on for size. I have to believe that of those people who signed on for Early Access for the purpose of witnessing the development of the game, they'd like to try it out too and render their own feedback based on their play of it.

 

[BenZ0]

If you've already read the book, the book icon is an open book instead of a closed book. Same for schematics / recipes.

View attachment 24987

Nvm then. I leggit never saw that after 2k hours of playing, honestly it still needs to be different and changed then cuz it is way too small or barely noticable, something simple like a green check mark would make it 100 times better imo. Anyway thanks for the answer I appreciate that!

 

[Roland]

Have you played a bit with the new system?

A bit. I've had to start over a few times due to incompatible builds so I haven't gone super deep. Even though the change only affects crafting recipes it was really hard to wrap my brain around it. I kept going to the perk menu and then realized that that wasn't where I was going to be able to upgrade my tools lol.  I felt like a bit of a noob. It isn't hard to understand at all-- its quite intuitive and you feel like you are finding bits of information here and there and piecing it together to learn how to make something new or something better. It emphasizes the gap between the old world and the present apocalyptic world. The old world has all the secrets and you have to find them in order to learn how to increase your tech level.

What can you tell us about magazine finding? To you, Is it engaging or a bother (can it be a daunting task or does it just reward you as you take risks )?

Its fun honestly. But, then, I'm apparently one of the few who actually enjoys scavenging in the game. You know how TFP operates: when they introduce something new they plaster the game with it so magazines are plentiful. You find them everywhere. That might, of course, get nerfed a bit as people play and report back but it is fun because the magazines feel valuable and you get them at a consistent rate. It is engaging from the sense of atmosphere that I mentioned in the last section but in practice it is the same as finding books. You click to read and move on. It can be a bother I guess if you have to click on ten or so at a time to read them all but then again not so much of a bother that I'm not going to click

As for finding what I've perked into, it is definitely a subtle boost. I seem to be finding a wide variety of magazines even though I perked into spears. I'm not frustrated for a lack of Sharp Sticks in loot but I wouldn't mind finding more so I really think that the boost is not going to cause us to only find certain magazines at the expense of others. It is simply going to help us not feel the frustration of never finding what we need. 

Do you find crafting superior or equal than looting the same item/weapon?

I can't say yet for the whole game but at least in the early game I have been mostly crafting above what I find most of the time. I did find an orange level iron pick in a car on day one but as we all know it would be stamina and hunger suicide to use it anyway at this point so it is in a chest for later. I think this will depend on how much looting someone does. If they are playing with the purpose to grind magazines as quickly as possible I think they will always probably craft well ahead of what they loot except for occasional lucky finds. If they don't loot at all and go up in level doing other things then for sure they won't be able to craft things better than they can find.

What's your credit card number?

I've already said that until something is implemented in the game we aren't going to reveal details. So just like I can say that there is a new workstation and a new quest type I can tell you that there is a number.

 

[Telly G]

I hope the armor overhaul has at least 6 armor slots instead of just 4. (head, shoulders, body, hands, legs, feet, or one slot for each limb like in the surge 2) cos 4 is too few to go from the 12 there is now. First person view models that reflect what you're wearing on your arms would be stellar.

And this is a bigger ask but making the dyeing of gear better than a simple color tint of the entire model. 

 

[Blake_]

A bit. I've had to start over a few times due to incompatible builds so I haven't gone super deep. Even though the change only affects crafting recipes it was really hard to wrap my brain around it. I kept going to the perk menu and then realized that that wasn't where I was going to be able to upgrade my tools lol.  I felt like a bit of a noob. It isn't hard to understand at all-- its quite intuitive and you feel like you are finding bits of information here and there and piecing it together to learn how to make something new or something better. It emphasizes the gap between the old world and the present apocalyptic world. The old world has all the secrets and you have to find them in order to learn how to increase your tech level.

Its fun honestly. But, then, I'm apparently one of the few who actually enjoys scavenging in the game. You know how TFP operates: when they introduce something new they plaster the game with it so magazines are plentiful. You find them everywhere. That might, of course, get nerfed a bit as people play and report back but it is fun because the magazines feel valuable and you get them at a consistent rate. It is engaging from the sense of atmosphere that I mentioned in the last section but in practice it is the same as finding books. You click to read and move on. It can be a bother I guess if you have to click on ten or so at a time to read them all but then again not so much of a bother that I'm not going to click

As for finding what I've perked into, it is definitely a subtle boost. I seem to be finding a wide variety of magazines even though I perked into spears. I'm not frustrated for a lack of Sharp Sticks in loot but I wouldn't mind finding more so I really think that the boost is not going to cause us to only find certain magazines at the expense of others. It is simply going to help us not feel the frustration of never finding what we need. 

I can't say yet for the whole game but at least in the early game I have been mostly crafting above what I find most of the time. I did find an orange level iron pick in a car on day one but as we all know it would be stamina and hunger suicide to use it anyway at this point so it is in a chest for later. I think this will depend on how much looting someone does. If they are playing with the purpose to grind magazines as quickly as possible I think they will always probably craft well ahead of what they loot except for occasional lucky finds. If they don't loot at all and go up in level doing other things then for sure they won't be able to craft things better than they can find.

I've already said that until something is implemented in the game we aren't going to reveal details. So just like I can say that there is a new workstation and a new quest type I can tell you that there is a number.

That was pretty enlightening, thank you very much for the response! I didn't pay it much thought when madmole first talked about it way back in the a20.diary, but it's shaping up to.be something impressive.

Industrial forge and Demolition quest you say? We'll never know.until we get the official info ! Meanwhile, we can only guess and wonder. 

 

[KhaineGB]

Yes. I've been developing A21 using 2021 LTS. Currently on 2021.3.3 with plans for the rest of the team to switch in a few weeks.

Nice. Any new features in that release you guys can take advantage of? Or just wanting to stay current?

 

[POCKET951]

So trader stage is in development for A21. My question is how do you plan on balancing the traders vs looting? Currently the trader circumvents the majority of loot/gamestage progression  and if it is over tuned and the trader becomes worse than loot why interact with them? Trading needs to be at worst, slightly better than what you are looting or else it isn't rewarding enough to justify it