PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary
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Uncle Al
Active member
@madmole Thanks for the preview. Looks like a fun system and I look forward to trying it out next alpha.
One thing that does concern me is your repeated use of 'brown to blue' implies the quality 5 cap on crafting is staying in. Is that really necessary? If, as I believe, the original point of the cap was to 'not allow someone who never goes looting to get the best stuff' that's now avoided by having to loot to up your crafting skill.
Keeping the cap means the new, rich, and interesting looking crafting system is going to be completely sidelined as soon as you get a quality 6 drop or quest reward. My current playthrough is an excellent example: My very first tier 4 quest offered a quality 6 compound crossbow as a reward. Lovely, but if I got that under the new, proposed system I'm now in the weird position of being encouraged NOT to perk into archery because all archery magazine and parts drops are now useless to me and I'd rather other useful stuff drops.
If you could craft quality 6 at top skill levels you at least have the, admittedly fairly minor, benefit of being able to use any parts you loot to occasionally craft quality 6 weapons and roll the dice on getting an improvement through random stats. It at least gives you a reason to be happy when you find bow parts or magazines, not think 'oh well, in the bin' which seems a real shame.
There might also be value in being able to craft some sort of consumables, e.g. a cleaning kit/bowstring tensioner/whetstone etc. that gives + 1/10 of your crafting skill as percent bonus damage (probably rounded into tiers so you don't get a nightmare with itemisation/stacking) for 10 minutes and takes an appropriate weapon part to craft. Basically something that makes crafting, and finding magazines and parts, still exciting beyond midgame.
One thing that does concern me is your repeated use of 'brown to blue' implies the quality 5 cap on crafting is staying in. Is that really necessary? If, as I believe, the original point of the cap was to 'not allow someone who never goes looting to get the best stuff' that's now avoided by having to loot to up your crafting skill.
Keeping the cap means the new, rich, and interesting looking crafting system is going to be completely sidelined as soon as you get a quality 6 drop or quest reward. My current playthrough is an excellent example: My very first tier 4 quest offered a quality 6 compound crossbow as a reward. Lovely, but if I got that under the new, proposed system I'm now in the weird position of being encouraged NOT to perk into archery because all archery magazine and parts drops are now useless to me and I'd rather other useful stuff drops.
If you could craft quality 6 at top skill levels you at least have the, admittedly fairly minor, benefit of being able to use any parts you loot to occasionally craft quality 6 weapons and roll the dice on getting an improvement through random stats. It at least gives you a reason to be happy when you find bow parts or magazines, not think 'oh well, in the bin' which seems a real shame.
There might also be value in being able to craft some sort of consumables, e.g. a cleaning kit/bowstring tensioner/whetstone etc. that gives + 1/10 of your crafting skill as percent bonus damage (probably rounded into tiers so you don't get a nightmare with itemisation/stacking) for 10 minutes and takes an appropriate weapon part to craft. Basically something that makes crafting, and finding magazines and parts, still exciting beyond midgame.
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madmole
Fun Pimps Staff
We can consider it. Now that it requires great effort to reach the top skill level crafting Q6 doesn't feel so bad.
Roland
Moderator
My take on it is that Q6 gear is too frequently and easily given out as quest rewards...
ElDudorino
New member
My take on it is that Q6 gear is too frequently and easily given out as quest rewards...
I still think Q6 should be craftable but I also agree that Q6 is too common as a quest reward. Well, really, quest rewards are just too generous in every way. They hand you Q5-Q6 of every item and then wrap up by giving you 500 steel blocks!
Jost Amman
Well-known member
This new crafting system is EXACTLY what I'd hoped to see!
Incredible! A21 is already my favorite alpha!
arty:
Now, let the party poopers in! :frusty: :tsk: :nono: :kev: :mad2: :rant:
Incredible! A21 is already my favorite alpha!
arty: Now, let the party poopers in! :frusty: :tsk: :nono: :kev: :mad2: :rant:
Roland
Moderator
The perks definitely got gutted...haha. They will be rebalancing the bonuses and benefits that perks give but remember that one important aspect of the perks in the new system is that they weight the loot table to what you want to find. So if you don't perk into Grease Monkey, for example, the magazines that give knowledge for vehicle crafting are going to show up randomly. Sure, you can go loot gas stations for a greater chance at finding those but you still won't be able to move up that crafting skill tree except at the whim of unmodified randomness. That could take weeks and weeks of searching and finding all the magazines you don't need.
Perking into Grease Monkey is going to pad the probabilities towards successfully finding those magazines you need to learn how to craft vehicles as well as the parts needed for those vehicles.
When the change first happened I was a bit frustrated with it because what I could learn to craft was so random and I had zero control over what I could learn to craft. But I was waiting to perk into anything until I knew what I would mostly find. As soon as I learned about the benefits of perking I did that and frustration was replaced by fun as I started finding more of what I wanted and needed. It isn't guaranteed but the probability does go up for spending points in the perks enough that you are finding what you want a lot of the time and making looting rewarding.
There has been no change to gaining xp through various actions and earning skill points when you level up and spending those skill points on perks. That part of the game is exactly the same. Many of the perks themselves will obviously be different than what you've known and will need some adjustments.
You won't find recipes in books. Instead, you can think of it as finding pieces of recipes in several magazines. This is simply for crafting. You can still find those actual items in loot for a nice WOW moment. Whenever you've read enough of a magazine type to unlock a new recipe or a higher quality tier you feel a WOW moment. It's true that you will never learn how to make a steel club before you learn to make an iron club so if that is the type of WOW moment you mean then, yes, those moments will be gone. You will have to work your way up the skill ladder in order to learn how to craft the highest tech with no way to skip ahead by finding a recipe early.
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Beelzebubs Ghost
New member
So will we still be able to find weapons and other items in loot? Because if not that will be another change that will have to be modded out.
Loot must mean something other than just finding magazines to find parts and further recipes...
Loot must mean something other than just finding magazines to find parts and further recipes...
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
Madmole:
"There is still a chance to find other stuff, but you won't be level 100 and still using a brown double barrel because of random drops."
Survager
Tester
@madmole @Roland
New skills will only affect the quality and rank of items, as well as the discovery of new recipes?
Or will these skills also increase the player's ability to use one or another weapon and tool that the player constantly uses?
For example, now in Alpha 20 and down, if I want to use knives and sniper rifles equally effectively, then I have to buy levels of different attributes, but if I don’t like to use pistols and spears, it turns out that I am partially wasting experience points?
I hope I was able to explain my thought.
New skills will only affect the quality and rank of items, as well as the discovery of new recipes?
Or will these skills also increase the player's ability to use one or another weapon and tool that the player constantly uses?
For example, now in Alpha 20 and down, if I want to use knives and sniper rifles equally effectively, then I have to buy levels of different attributes, but if I don’t like to use pistols and spears, it turns out that I am partially wasting experience points?
I hope I was able to explain my thought.
POCKET951
New member
will recipes for thing's like anvils, bellows and crucibles still drop or will those all unlock through the crafting skill tree?
are all recipes books being replaced with training manuals?
I assume we would still be able to find weapons and armor in loot? looting stuff is a big aspect of this game. it would be silly if we only looted crafting skill books
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I mean no offense, but there is a reason I gave up on 7 Days.
I don't think I can point out any other game that has been in development for nearly 10 years so that the developers can get away with changing everything we know about the game, damn near every single update.
Not all of us enjoy or appreciate the RPG elements added.
Not all of us want skills rearrange and changed every 5 updates.
I absolutely love this game and have gifted it to nearly 40 people, but I just will not keep relearning @%$#.
And I am not talking about new things. I am not talking about new POIs. I am not talking about new AI mechanics... THOSE ARE AMAZING IMPROVEMENTS!
But as an Artist myself I will give you the single advice that made me confident in my work: At some point while painting for perfection you begin @%$#ing up your own work.
Please stop @%$#ing up your own work?
Every update that changes skills, UI, adds RPG bull@%$#... I invest less and less time playing the game before I get bored and go play a triple A title.
I use to be able to play for days on end... But you continue to jack with player agency instead of working on the things you promised us.
And who the @%$# am I right? What does my unpopular opinion matter? At the end of the day I will go unheard and a game I loved will turn into absolute dog @%$# for me and I will never have the same experience again.
I will never say that I wish I could refund the game.... But if I could rethink gifting it 40 times I damn sure would have a few pizzas that would at least be less cheesy.
I don't think I can point out any other game that has been in development for nearly 10 years so that the developers can get away with changing everything we know about the game, damn near every single update.
Not all of us enjoy or appreciate the RPG elements added.
Not all of us want skills rearrange and changed every 5 updates.
I absolutely love this game and have gifted it to nearly 40 people, but I just will not keep relearning @%$#.
And I am not talking about new things. I am not talking about new POIs. I am not talking about new AI mechanics... THOSE ARE AMAZING IMPROVEMENTS!
But as an Artist myself I will give you the single advice that made me confident in my work: At some point while painting for perfection you begin @%$#ing up your own work.
Please stop @%$#ing up your own work?
Every update that changes skills, UI, adds RPG bull@%$#... I invest less and less time playing the game before I get bored and go play a triple A title.
I use to be able to play for days on end... But you continue to jack with player agency instead of working on the things you promised us.
And who the @%$# am I right? What does my unpopular opinion matter? At the end of the day I will go unheard and a game I loved will turn into absolute dog @%$# for me and I will never have the same experience again.
I will never say that I wish I could refund the game.... But if I could rethink gifting it 40 times I damn sure would have a few pizzas that would at least be less cheesy.
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