PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

You fail again, sir. My comment was:

1. In regards to rain collectors, not dew collectors; which were revealed after the fact,

2. That people shouldn't get their hopes up when other fluff isn't (or hasn't yet revealed to be) interactive, hence their inclusion in a list of named decorative props,

3. Turns out; through one one of the devs explicit reasoning about biome weather calculations, that rain collectors couldn't be possible, meaning I was in fact incidentally right, not wrong.

You fail again . The developer only explained that it can't be easily **simulated in realistic detail** (i.e. only filling up when it actually rains there). So that rain has to be approximated unless they want to shove a lot of developer resources into a relatively unimportant feature.

Observe that almost nothing in the game is really simulated in realistic detail. Does growing of crops check weather conditions or rain? No, all crops grow identical whether in desert, forest or winter biome.

Are zombie and wildlife movements simulated? Would you be able to see the same deer if you came back to a specific area or project where a horde of wandering zombies would be after a day if you looked at their movement? No. Not simulated, still wildlife and wandering zombies are very much possible.

You looked at what I said and deliberately and perversely misapplied it to something I never talked about. Thats a strawman fallacy.

You are a troll with the last word mentality of a child, and the sad thing is - you are supposed to be a moderator, and an educator?

 

[Fanatical_Meat]

You fail again, sir. My comment was:

1. In regards to rain collectors, not dew collectors; which were revealed after the fact,

2. That people shouldn't get their hopes up when other fluff isn't (or hasn't yet revealed to be) interactive, hence their inclusion in a list of named decorative props,

3. Turns out; through one one of the devs explicit reasoning about biome weather calculations, that rain collectors couldn't be possible, meaning I was in fact incidentally right, not wrong.

You looked at what I said and deliberately and perversely misapplied it to something I never talked about. Thats a strawman fallacy.

You are a troll with the last word mentality of a child, and the sad thing is - you are supposed to be a moderator, and an educator?

1) Who cares why is this relevant 

2) You bough an early access game that has always been marketed as an early access game, assuming this is a problem you should wait for the game to be complete

3) Why do weather calculation need to tie in with a dew/water collector, it is a game it doesn’t need excessive calculations. What it needs is fun & performance.

There is a damn bin that collect or makes water there is nothing else to understand 

Give it a rest man wait until the next alpha and decide if the change ruined the game for you I feel bad however as of now it’s just whining. Nobody likes whiners.

You fail again, sir. My comment was:

1. In regards to rain collectors, not dew collectors; which were revealed after the fact,

2. That people shouldn't get their hopes up when other fluff isn't (or hasn't yet revealed to be) interactive, hence their inclusion in a list of named decorative props,

3. Turns out; through one one of the devs explicit reasoning about biome weather calculations, that rain collectors couldn't be possible, meaning I was in fact incidentally right, not wrong.

You looked at what I said and deliberately and perversely misapplied it to something I never talked about. Thats a strawman fallacy.

You are a troll with the last word mentality of a child, and the sad thing is - you are supposed to be a moderator, and an educator?

1) Who cares why is this relevant 

2) You bough an early access game that has always been marketed as an early access game, assuming this is a problem you should wait for the game to be complete

3) Why do weather calculation need to tie in with a dew/water collector, it is a game it doesn’t need excessive calculations. What it needs is fun & performance.

There is a damn bin that collect or makes water there is nothing else to understand 

Give it a rest man wait until the next alpha and decide if the change ruined the game for you I feel bad however as of now it’s just whining. Nobody likes whiners.

I f’ed up an duplicated the response sorry all

**Look it is really easy to admit a mistake was made**

 

[Gideon]

I don't mind making the game harder and boosting survival aspect...

Wait, you think these changes make the game harder? Well, no you don't, but it's a good gate to the point I want to make.

Every update has made the game easier for me. It's at the point now where I have to run the game at 50% loot drop, just to have some challenge and pressure at the beginning. Even this is gone by the first 7 day horde.

I figured the game play loop has gotten easier and easier over time to appeal to a wider and wider audience, hence the steady move away from survival play and towards arcade play.

Passive water collection, where you don't have to manage a resource (jars, glass, sand, etc.) and don't have to concern yourself with the location of water in relation to your base with the possibility of being attacked while you are out, but instead just get water continually from a device you can spam build is much easier and much less interactive than what we have now. I expect a passive meat system is in the works somewhere (chicken coops?). Long ago they developers said they were inspired by games like Fallout. Well, which Fallout? Some entries in this are much more survival involved than others. The main line games have pretty much no survival aspects at all. Perhaps this game should be that way?

The magazines people are concerned about? I expect it to make zero difference in my games as I get more than enough good equipment from completing quests. Sure it's not super powerful, but it is plenty good enough to get the job done. With the move to pipe weapons and the abundance of ammo, this has gotten much much easier. I don't ever feel a need to rush to exceptional loot. If people are playing on a difficulty where they feel they have to, then there needs to be an examination as to why they are playing at that difficulty. It certainly isn't for the increased challenge vs zombies as they rush to gear to neutralize this enhanced challenge. Is there some other aspect of the game they feel they need the challenge cranked up on, and this loot seeking behavior is just a symptom?

I'm not necessarily in favor or against these changes. However, I do think that looking at and experiencing the development of this game, it has long suffered from the "design of the month" syndrome. The developers see the current gaming hotness, or get enamored with a particular game, and try to ape that design. Then they get bored or dissatisfied with it, and move on to reflecting another game design. This game seems to have been suffering from a lack of coherent design from the beginning. This ends up ticking off players who come in for a particular game play loop, only to find that design diminished or eliminated later.

 

[FranticDan]

Questions about the filter helmet mod:
Does the mod remove or lower the HP cost of dirty water?

Also, how much HP does it cost to drink dirty water each time? Also, is it the same hydration and HP cost from drinking from a water source?

 

[Guppycur]

You are a troll with the last word mentality of a child, and the sad thing is - you are supposed to be a moderator, and an educator? 

No need for personal attacks homie.

 

[schwanz9000]

Questions about the filter helmet mod:
Does the mod remove or lower the HP cost of dirty water?

Also, how much HP does it cost to drink dirty water each time? Also, is it the same hydration and HP cost from drinking from a water source?

The mod removes all side effects from hand drinking and murky water. Without it, it would be -5HP per drink as well as a 12% risk of dysentery. It has a gain of 10 water.

That mod will be the new must find item. 

 

[doughphunghus]

Lots of discussion about the upcoming jar/water changes…. I’m curious:

dev question: any plans of making more “types of water” blocks in the world than just “murky” and “drinkable”? 

thoughts /arguments:
I have gently (fingers crossed) requested “blood water” in the game just for visual effect in pois but…. Having a lot of contaminated water that’s worse than “murky” might be an incentive to have more purification strategies, if you wanted to… or a way to have water that’s “unusable” for things like lakes/ditches/toilets all the places where water “look and feel” is neat but you don’t want it to be useable at all. 

Currently there’s basically “murky” and then “clean”. Its a very binary system and purification is easy/cheap even without a lot of jars. I feel that some complexity (and possible fun?) might arise if water could have multiple types (either super contaminated, or just really nasty, radiated, oily, toxic, etc) so it will be a struggle to purify it if even possible (not just “I filtered and/or boiled it”) and finding/buying/looting “drinkable water” could be rare as crafting/purifying it would be the goal.

In this way, having a dew collector that gives a little early game water might be nice, but other methods might yield “more plentiful water” but would require more work to set up (like radiation filter, particulate filter, boiling ) might be a good compliment to collecting dew, or rather than building a dew collecting farm. 

for the “snow -> h2o” melting for water (being removed apparently?) just (simply! Ha ha) add some radiation to the snow (or even then snow biome) It’s low enough level you can wander around a bit before radiation hits you, but concentrate the snow and you’re going to have some nasty radiated water. Of course, this might mean needing a few levels of radiation and protection from it to the game… to make it awesome of course…  but if not just make concentrated snow radiated and harmful to drink.
 

As an example: Make the “normal easy to find water” in any particular biome a special water block property/color and a biome specific challenge to purify/process/drink, therefore a special struggle to live/base in that biome near water.

 

[Roland]

You fail again, sir.

I was just teasing. I didn’t mean the comment maliciously or actually trying to catch you in some kind of lie to one up you. Apologies. I can see you are deadly serious about your comments and past the point of any kind of banter. 
 

 

[Roland]

I figured the game play loop has gotten easier and easier over time to appeal to a wider and wider audience, hence the steady move away from survival play and towards arcade play.

New players don’t report that the current game loop is particularly easy. You’re just a veteran player. I’ve gone back to previous alphas and played with no difficulty on default settings. There was a bit of remembering different mechanics but once done no more or less difficulty to survive. 

 

[AtomicUs5000]

New players don’t report that the current game loop is particularly easy. You’re just a veteran player. I’ve gone back to previous alphas and played with no difficulty on default settings. There was a bit of remembering different mechanics but once done no more or less difficulty to survive. 

You went back to 17? That's just messed up.

 

[Jost Amman]

You went back to 17? That's just messed up.

We've already established that about Roland...  :tongue:

 

[Roland]

I dare not go back to A17 because it would make me too nostalgic for the perfect AI zombies. They were so much more fun than these stupid idiot zombies we have now. 

 

[Gideon]

New players don’t report that the current game loop is particularly easy. You’re just a veteran player. I’ve gone back to previous alphas and played with no difficulty on default settings. There was a bit of remembering different mechanics but once done no more or less difficulty to survive. 

So that kind of confirms what I said. Thanks.

Survival games tend to be, by their nature, kind of hard on new players. Perhaps eliminating or severely diminishing the survival aspects in favor of more action oriented aspects of the game would be in order?

 

[Roland]

So that kind of confirms what I said. Thanks.

You’re welcome. Glad to confirm that the devs haven’t been making the game easier and easier with each update and that how easy it is now is simply a product of your experience. 

Perhaps eliminating or severely diminishing the survival aspects in favor of more action oriented aspects of the game would be in order?

That wouldn’t be my preference. The game is a good blend of survival aspects and arcade action. I’d like to see more survival elements emphasized, personally, but even so the devs have never been trying to make this game a survival sim or all out arcade game. 

 

[sillls]

I have asked this question before but I realized that I didn't get an answer. 

Will there be boats in Alpha 21?

 

[Roland]

I have asked this question before but I realized that I didn't get an answer. 

Will there be boats in Alpha 21?

Maybe and no. 
 

There is a yacht POI that is in the files but still a WIP and it may or may not show up in A21

 Boats as water vehicles are not planned. 

 

[Doomofman]

This is not exactly a major thing but will A21 see the cop's exploding chunks get updated? Still find it weird that his bits are from the old model

 

[Matt115]

New players don’t report that the current game loop is particularly easy. You’re just a veteran player. I’ve gone back to previous alphas and played with no difficulty on default settings. There was a bit of remembering different mechanics but once done no more or less difficulty to survive. 

PFF "VETERAN PLAYER" this is not working! years ago we had to fight with wight in first day with our bare fist! While we had to eat to get HP! good old times.  So game is easier! without dying on normal after 15 minutes something go wrong! this game must harder. so hard that it will be sold in ..... the favourite Snowdog shop only! 

 

[schwanz9000]

This is not exactly a major thing but will A21 see the cop's exploding chunks get updated? Still find it weird that his bits are from the old model

Yup! Ran out of time to get the new gibs done in time for the A20 launch. He still works, so it shipped.

Lots of things will be in various states of WIP from here to Gold!

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

1) Who cares why is this relevant 

2) You bough an early access game that has always been marketed as an early access game, assuming this is a problem you should wait for the game to be complete

3) Why do weather calculation need to tie in with a dew/water collector, it is a game it doesn’t need excessive calculations. What it needs is fun & performance.

There is a damn bin that collect or makes water there is nothing else to understand 

Give it a rest man wait until the next alpha and decide if the change ruined the game for you I feel bad however as of now it’s just whining. Nobody likes whiners.

1) Who cares why is this relevant 

2) You bough an early access game that has always been marketed as an early access game, assuming this is a problem you should wait for the game to be complete

3) Why do weather calculation need to tie in with a dew/water collector, it is a game it doesn’t need excessive calculations. What it needs is fun & performance.

There is a damn bin that collect or makes water there is nothing else to understand 

Give it a rest man wait until the next alpha and decide if the change ruined the game for you I feel bad however as of now it’s just whining. Nobody likes whiners.

I f’ed up an duplicated the response sorry all

**Look it is really easy to admit a mistake was made**

You need to go back and read through the conversations.