PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Roland said:
Its simply an answer to Blake's query about whether an "others" tree would be created to put miscellaneous perks into so you don't have to spend into a specific attribute.

The answer should be apparent. This was just a joke riddle for Blake. A real one is coming.
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You hold too much power for jokes. Everyone wants to pick apart your “prophecies” of the future 😆

 
Neminsis said:
 It isn't stamina use that causes the sledge and club to be chosen early game, but that knockdown and knockback can create space for the player, neither the spear nor the baton does this in early game.  This could be addressed by massaging the crit rate for both to cause more limb damage and also create space for the player without altering the fundamental playstyle for either.
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Both knives and batons are great early game melee weapons, but are always complained about in the forums - probably because they are not OP like the clubs which don't take much to use.  Both weapons favor hit and run tactics which seems a tactic that others don't want to use.  Also clubs are more forgiving if people get in a pickle so more likely chosen over viable alternatives like the baton and knife.

I can't recall the last time I used the club as my main melee weapon, I just know I had one until I was able to get my hands on bones to make a bone knife or materials to make a pipe baton.

 
BFT2020 said:
Both knives and batons are great early game melee weapons, but are always complained about in the forums - probably because they are not OP like the clubs which don't take much to use.  Both weapons favor hit and run tactics which seems a tactic that others don't want to use.  Also clubs are more forgiving if people get in a pickle so more likely chosen over viable alternatives like the baton and knife.

I can't recall the last time I used the club as my main melee weapon, I just know I had one until I was able to get my hands on bones to make a bone knife or materials to make a pipe baton.
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How exactly are we supposed to hit and run if we're playing a difficulty setting where the zombies run at the same speed as us (or even faster)? You mean hit,turn around and run and then get hit 3 times while you run away? Only to not have enough stamina to attack back? because we ran?

Great. Fantastic Insane-Nightmare strategy. Works 100% of the time 0% of the time.

 
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Halcyon said:
How exactly are we supposed to hit and run if we're playing a difficulty setting where the zombies run at the same speed as us (or even faster)? You mean hit,turn around and run and then get hit 3 times while you run away? Only to not have enough stamina to attack back? because we ran?

Great. Fantastic Insane-Nightmare strategy. Works 100% of the time 0% of the time.
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As someone who exclusively plays insane/nightmare/feral sense/permadeath, yes you can run away, sometimes if they super rage then they're faster than you, but there are tricks.

1) Using the cardinal directions to get away as the zombies use voxel pathing (honestly wish they would path like vultures do!) and can't go between two cardinal directions in a straight line to you. Using your surroundings to kite them, like fences to help regain stamina.

2) Stamina management is also key to surviving nightmare speeds. Keep your hydration above 75%, being overhydrated is even better!

3) Learn to read the zombies animations, and about the zombie pain resistance mechanic.

If your hydration is below 75% and you're wearing armour that isn't padded (early game), you're not gonna have a good time!

 
Roland said:
Will this take seconds minutes hours or days to solve? It's pretty straightforward if you know the images...

View attachment 26825
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on screen - counter/block - geo tracker

So maybe 'onscreen block tracker'? or 'onscreen block count tracker'?

I know the first and third parts are right, but not sure on what you're going for with the blue blocks (assuming I have the right order)

 
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meganoth said:
But they are not repopulated with sexrexy perks because the stamina buff is getting built into the weapon perk itself.
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As usual I'm not communicating as effectively as I'd like.  I used "repopulated/reorganized" to cover both conditions and the gaps I'm referring to there are the gaps in functionality while you build up a second attribute in order to gain that functionality. Removing SexRex has created an open 'slot' that may or may not be repopulated.

 

meganoth said:
The second attribute after strength that is most often mentioned as overpowered is intellect.
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We're using the word 'utility' differently here and I wouldn't disagree that intellect is OP in the economic sense but in the survival sense nothing else there really matters.  But yeah, there are a whole lot of empty 'slots' on the tree and how they might be filled does make me a little nervous.

 
 

 
Halcyon said:
How exactly are we supposed to hit and run if we're playing a difficulty setting where the zombies run at the same speed as us (or even faster)? You mean hit,turn around and run and then get hit 3 times while you run away? Only to not have enough stamina to attack back? because we ran?

Great. Fantastic Insane-Nightmare strategy. Works 100% of the time 0% of the time.
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FranticDan has already made some very good points, so I won't repeat those; but I will add some more that I use when I play:

Ladders in hotbar are a must (to quickly climb up walls) along with spike traps.  Roof tops are great if you get into a pickle and crouching while using it to block their line of sight causes them to lose interest in tracking you down.  Spike traps are great to get them to damage / kill themselves and slow them down.  I have had times where my line of placed spike traps delayed some zombies that sensed me with Feral Sense on.

Inventory management is required - if you are encumbered, you are asking to become a zombie snack.  Secure storage boxes ready to place down are a must.  Only carry what you need right that moment, don't worry about building up resources for crafting later game items.  If it isn't something you can use that minute, then it is better to come back for it later.

Crouch / walk most of the time.  You need to spot the zombies first, getting that first sneak shot arrow hit is key - headshot is best.

Go slow at first, especially beginning game.  Pick out easy POIs to clear out first.  First week as I am trying to get armor, better tools, and weapons, I will only do one POI a day (60 minute days), unless there are two low level ones next to each other; but I always leave time to get back safely to my night location as quietly as possible and undetected - which may require backtracking - a lot.

If you are playing with the 4 easy perk points at the beginning, I tend to spec into Deep Cuts (Q2 bone knife and slow on bleed), Cardio (stamina regen when running), hidden strike (for extra damage), and parkour (for reduced jumping stamina).  From the shadows is also a good one to get them to lose interest in your faster (along with archery for better bow and damage).

One zombie is easy to handle if you follow the above.  Two is tricky, but doable.  Three or more, it is better to use ladders you already placed in strategic areas to get out of harms way and try to get them to ignore you.  Then pick them off with arrows (sneak damage).  Zombie dogs - forget them.  If you haven't seen me yet, back off unless you got a lot of arrows and a high ground they cannot reach.

Don't engage zombies just to get extra XP.  If they are running away (like a wandering horde), let them be.  Right then, they are not doing anything to you, so why not just let them go?  🙂  Don't get focused on that one zombie.  Hit them and run away, keeping an eye for any additional Z's that get interested in what you are doing at that moment.

You make a mistake and it will cost you, maybe even to the point you die.  But that is the whole point of Insane / Nightmare speed, to challenge you. 

 
BFT2020 said:
Both knives and batons are great early game melee weapons, but are always complained about in the forums
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I don't disagree with any of that except that they're both extremely powerful at end game. There is nothing better for crowd control on horde night then a maxed-out stun baton and stealth kills with a knife are just juicy. 

They're complained about in the forums because they require an active game style rather than just standing there mashing left click.

 
BFT2020 said:
FranticDan has already made some very good points, so I won't repeat those; but I will add some more that I use when I play:

Ladders in hotbar are a must (to quickly climb up walls) along with spike traps.  Roof tops are great if you get into a pickle and crouching while using it to block their line of sight causes them to lose interest in tracking you down.  Spike traps are great to get them to damage / kill themselves and slow them down.  I have had times where my line of placed spike traps delayed some zombies that sensed me with Feral Sense on.

Inventory management is required - if you are encumbered, you are asking to become a zombie snack.  Secure storage boxes ready to place down are a must.  Only carry what you need right that moment, don't worry about building up resources for crafting later game items.  If it isn't something you can use that minute, then it is better to come back for it later.

Crouch / walk most of the time.  You need to spot the zombies first, getting that first sneak shot arrow hit is key - headshot is best.

Go slow at first, especially beginning game.  Pick out easy POIs to clear out first.  First week as I am trying to get armor, better tools, and weapons, I will only do one POI a day (60 minute days), unless there are two low level ones next to each other; but I always leave time to get back safely to my night location as quietly as possible and undetected - which may require backtracking - a lot.

If you are playing with the 4 easy perk points at the beginning, I tend to spec into Deep Cuts (Q2 bone knife and slow on bleed), Cardio (stamina regen when running), hidden strike (for extra damage), and parkour (for reduced jumping stamina).  From the shadows is also a good one to get them to lose interest in your faster (along with archery for better bow and damage).

One zombie is easy to handle if you follow the above.  Two is tricky, but doable.  Three or more, it is better to use ladders you already placed in strategic areas to get out of harms way and try to get them to ignore you.  Then pick them off with arrows (sneak damage).  Zombie dogs - forget them.  If you haven't seen me yet, back off unless you got a lot of arrows and a high ground they cannot reach.

Don't engage zombies just to get extra XP.  If they are running away (like a wandering horde), let them be.  Right then, they are not doing anything to you, so why not just let them go?  🙂  Don't get focused on that one zombie.  Hit them and run away, keeping an eye for any additional Z's that get interested in what you are doing at that moment.

You make a mistake and it will cost you, maybe even to the point you die.  But that is the whole point of Insane / Nightmare speed, to challenge you. 
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It's just like a youtube comment section. You make a snide remark meant to be taken as pure cheek and someone takes it as an invitation to talk at you for 6 paragraphs. So THAT's where those comments come from? Neato.

I have thousands of hours. I'm aware of everything you are saying, my point is that having to do all that when a club or sledgehammer just has to left click is an indication of some kind of a more optimal playstyle. Your grand strategy of using a pipe baton is a house of cards that is frustrating to play, and at what benefit? Being still weaker than a strength build? Pure pointless mashochism.

 

 
Neminsis said:
As usual I'm not communicating as effectively as I'd like.  I used "repopulated/reorganized" to cover both conditions and the gaps I'm referring to there are the gaps in functionality while you build up a second attribute in order to gain that functionality. Removing SexRex has created an open 'slot' that may or may not be repopulated.

 

We're using the word 'utility' differently here and I wouldn't disagree that intellect is OP in the economic sense but in the survival sense nothing else there really matters.  But yeah, there are a whole lot of empty 'slots' on the tree and how they might be filled does make me a little nervous.
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If you define survival sense as anything that helps scrounging then you should have listed agility as well as having none, while perception has. If you define it more general then Int has the medic perk (which is survival related) while agility has none. If you define "getting stuff" in general then trading skills are very much in the thick of it.

 
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Halcyon said:
Your grand strategy of using a pipe baton is a house of cards that is frustrating to play, and at what benefit?
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The challenge? RPing? Not playing the same way for the hundredth time?

This conversation started with talking about why the sledge and club were the preferred weapons for most players and how the other weapons could be improved, specifically that players just want to stand there, and mash left click and that increasing the crit rate on the non-favored weapons would be the functional equivalent of the knockdown/knock back in sledges and clubs. 

So apparently you agree very angrily with those points, yeah?

 
Halcyon said:
It's just like a youtube comment section. You make a snide remark meant to be taken as pure cheek and someone takes it as an invitation to talk at you for 6 paragraphs. So THAT's where those comments come from? Neato.
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Those responses read as a pure desire to be helpful and not as any kind of mansplaining condescension. Maybe you should just relax a bit since you’re claiming to just being cheeky in the  first place. For someone who simply posted out of snideness you seem a bit too defensive about not needing to be taught anything.
 

I learned something from them with my thousands of hours so I’m glad they responded from a place of loving the game and wanting to share. 
 

Halcyon said:
Pure pointless mashochism.
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One man’s pure pointless masochism is another man’s pure challenging delight. Just turn down the difficulty to the point you feel using intellect and agility works for early game. That way those who can play those builds at a tougher level don’t lose their….masochism. 
 

The trees don’t have to be equally proficient in exactly the same way. That makes them play differently and maybe for one particular person they can play insane nightmare using clubs but might only be able to manage warrior jog using knives. Changing the knives just so he can finally do knives at insane nightmare ruins it for others. 

 
Roland said:
Those responses read as a pure desire to be helpful and not as any kind of mansplaining condescension. Maybe you should just relax a bit since you’re claiming to just being cheeky in the  first place. For someone who simply posted out of snideness you seem a bit too defensive about not needing to be taught anything.
 

I learned something from them with my thousands of hours so I’m glad they responded from a place of loving the game and wanting to share. 
 

One man’s pure pointless masochism is another man’s pure challenging delight. Just turn down the difficulty to the point you feel using intellect and agility works for early game. That way those who can play those builds at a tougher level don’t lose their….masochism. 
 

The trees don’t have to be equally proficient in exactly the same way. That makes them play differently and maybe for one particular person they can play insane nightmare using clubs but might only be able to manage warrior jog using knives. Changing the knives just so he can finally do knives at insane nightmare ruins it for others. 
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ya im probably just being cynical and jaded, assuming everyone is talking down to me to be fair. My bad BFT

 
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