PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Quantum Blue]

TFP tout their progress on the game with release and patch notes.

They highlight and summarize new features, changes and fixes.

Yes they do.  But I still don't understand how you believe/knew they NEVER intended to deliberately use SI as part of their pathing 'feature'.

And I haven't been able to find anything like that in the A19 or A20 Dev Diary or EXP forums.

They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game.  That means getting to the player.  And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI.

 

[falloutcloud]

Okay, I'll jump on the speculative fiction bandwagon...

How about a fungus that's commonly mistaken for or referred to as a virus to due lack of knowledge or cultural bias?  The hyphae would be able to create a network to pass nutrients through the body, although at a slower rate than normal blood flow.  This would go a long way to explaining the slow movement, difficulty thinking, and abnormal behaviour of the zombie.

Something like Ophiocordyceps unilateralis for animals with a central nervous system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis

If a very real fungus can turn ants into zombies it's not much of a stretch of the imagination that something could infect humans similarly. The US government already has a plan for a zombie apocalypse called CONOP 8888.

 

[The Gronk]

Yes they do.  But I still don't understand how you believe/knew they NEVER intended to deliberately use SI as part of their pathing 'feature'.

And I haven't been able to find anything like that in the A19 or A20 Dev Diary or EXP forums.

They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game.  That means getting to the player.  And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI.

Before the AI update to the current system a half-block had half the HP of a full block.  The new pathfinding system required a half-block to have the same HP as a full block.  Now you have a situation where a thin pillar of something is the same HP as a full cubic metre of it.  Block HP is part of the SI calculation if memory serves.

Ideally a half-block should have half the HP of a full block but it was necessary to change this for pathfinding.  How do I know this?  I questioned the sanity of it when it was implemented and, if I remember correctly, you were here at the time.

 

[Aldranon]

The "simplest" way to explain zombies is a modified rabies/flu virus that stops at stage 2 infection and leaves the infected with extreme aggression and various levels of mental degradation. 

-The player is one of the few people who developed an immunity to the virus but not the super bug bacteria coating the zombies.

-Oh yeah, the strange side effect of the virus immunity was the ability to lift tons of construction material.

Got it all covered with science! 

 

[mr.devolver]

There is a simple fact nobody can get around: Science can not explain zombies at all, they are impossible in reality. So even your suggestion "Pair it with some other shenanigans, like mutations, help it with some sort of external brain control device maybe, and it would make sense, " is utter nonsense as well, sorry. Zombies in reality are impossible any which way.

Now the interesting thing is to "explain" zombies in a way that it NEARLY makes sense if you squint a little. Your explanation of external device or mutations is just as much squinting as a virus (or fungus, thanks The Gronk) that somehow provides oxygen or something else that substitutes for oxygen. All those explanations need some magic at places hopefully few people know much about so they get hoodwinked into believing it, at least in a game.

Now this is subjective, sure, but a virus to supply some sort of energy to the brain sounds more believable than a virus have nearly the thinking power of a dog. And moreover it is the perfect explanation for the zombies in 7D2D as any level of intelligence can be explained by it.

So you say brain stimulating device (which already exists) is a nonsense, but at the same time you can accept some unexplained "magic" that would explain zombies... Right... :classic_laugh:

 

[Jost Amman]

The "simplest" way to explain zombies is a modified rabies/flu virus that stops at stage 2 infection and leaves the infected with extreme aggression and various levels of mental degradation. 

-The player is one of the few people who developed an immunity to the virus but not the super bug bacteria coating the zombies.

-Oh yeah, the strange side effect of the virus immunity was the ability to lift tons of construction material.

Got it all covered with science! 

Fauci couldn't explain it better!  :heh:

And I haven't been able to find anything like that in the A19 or A20 Dev Diary or EXP forums.

Wow! You already searched all that stuff?? Your searching ability is beyond anything I could imagine!  :jaw:

 

[faatal]

Has TFP [SIZE=14.6px]received[/SIZE] a SteamDeck to play with?

Will Vulkan graphics ever be fully [SIZE=14.6px]supported[/SIZE]? It has been an option in the launcher, but [SIZE=14.6px]labeled[/SIZE] as not fully supported. I have had good success testing using it on an older machine with AMD graphics, but nVidia drivers do seem to have a few random lockups with it. Vulkan does seem to add as much as a 50% increase in FPS over OpenGL.

Or is Vulkan support based on the support that it [SIZE=14.6px]receives[/SIZE] from Unity?

I could also mention random slowdowns in fps/performance, but I have a guess more than one person has mentioned this already.

Not that I know of.

Our Vulkan support comes through Unity. We have little control over it beyond enabling it.

The game is always going to have random FPS slowdowns, because the world, what is going on around you and what you are looking at changes a lot and the game has to do data cleanup at times like garbage collection. The goal would be to minimize it, but it will never go away completely until we have computers so fast that you can't tell when it drops from 300 FPS to 100 FPS at times.

 

[faatal]

Yes they do.  But I still don't understand how you believe/knew they NEVER intended to deliberately use SI as part of their pathing 'feature'.

And I haven't been able to find anything like that in the A19 or A20 Dev Diary or EXP forums.

They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game.  That means getting to the player.  And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI.

We are a company of many people with a variety of ideas on how things should work. Over the years you also get new people coming onboard with new ideas. Opinions also change over time, so what I thought 4 years ago when I started, may be different now.

AI uses rounded block health in their pathing calculations, not SI. It is tower defense and we want them to be able to reach you, but since we can't do massive piles of zombies, smarted ones will do. My zombies have xray/heat/magic vision that lets them see weak spots in blocks and their semi functioning brains lets them decide to go there. They also have a dim recollection that doors allow them to get places, so they favor them. My lore for now until I change my mind or the company decides to have some official lore.

 

[Morloc]

...I still don't understand how you believe/knew they NEVER intended to deliberately use SI as part of their pathing 'feature'.

You may be hung up on semantics here.

My actual claim:

"Zombies that understand structural integrity and complex pathing were never introduced as a deliberate feature. They're here because something was needed to provide a challenge to player bases/safehouses/etc. given other limitations of the game engine."

since we can't do massive piles of zombies, smarted ones will do. My zombies have xray/heat/magic vision that lets them see weak spots in blocks and their semi functioning brains lets them decide to go there. They also have a dim recollection that doors allow them to get places, so they favor them.

Yep, though I think going for the doors was something from way-pre-A17(?) when pathing had changed a lot?

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 
 

 

[hiemfire]

Something like Ophiocordyceps unilateralis for animals with a central nervous system.

Insects, like the ones that that fungus family is known to affect, have a central nervous system. A fungus of that family adapted, either via evolution or lab manipulation, to affect primates could result in what we see in game. Though isn't there a game already that is themed in a world with that type of zombie that was published by a fairly sue happy corporation?

 

[BFT2020]

It is clear that the world in 7D2D is not our world, but a parallel universe where our laws of nature and science may be similar in some ways, but different in others.  In our world, zombies don't exist, vehicles don't become transparent and fall down 50 feet into the ground or magically move on their own, and a normal person can't haul around 1000s of 1000s buckets of concrete.

In this world, well.....

There, solved that problem.  What's the next problem we need to solve?  

 

[doughphunghus]

The US government already has a plan for a zombie apocalypse called CONOP 8888.

"First, we need to mobilize all government and civilian infrastructure to build 340 million stone forges and campfires and smelt down all the iron we can find. Second, we will need to distribute this minibike book to every man, woman, and child in the country... after that everyone should have all they need to fend for themselves, but people also need to know if they get infected to NOT hide in closets or attics. Leave a few lights on inside... but not too many. That should be enough that some survive long enough to mine and farm." - Some government person who likes to play games on the side

 

[The Gronk]

Insects, like the ones that that fungus family is known to affect, have a central nervous system. A fungus of that family adapted, either via evolution or lab manipulation, to affect primates could result in what we see in game. Though isn't there a game already that is themed in a world with that type of zombie that was published by a fairly sue happy corporation?

You are indeed correct, I should have specified vertebrates as there are a few non-simian zombies in the game such as bears and vultures.

Perhaps you're thinking of the XCOM series?  The early remakes had fungal zombies, as did halo with the flood infected marines. 

You've got me curious as to the first instance of zombies being a fungal infestation although it's too late to do any research now.  I wouldn't worry about copyright at all when it comes to this.  I'm pretty sure the original version of fungal zombies will probably be in some obscure sci-fi book from the seventies or perhaps some crazy 2000AD comic from the eighties.

[disappears to confirm an ancient and dusty memory]

Dammit, the "Yellow musk creeper" and "Yellow musk zombie" from the first edition D&D "Fiend Folio" are a plant-based zombies instead of fungus based... pretty damn close though.

[closes ancient tome and slides it back amongst its brethren]

Anyone else have an early example of fungal based zombies?

 

[hiemfire]

Perhaps you're thinking of the XCOM series?

No, The Last of Us.

Dammit, the "Yellow musk creeper" and "Yellow musk zombie" from the first edition D&D "Fiend Folio" are a plant-based zombies instead of fungus based... pretty damn close though.

Gygax and his crew drew heavily from existing fables/myths so I don't doubt that they came across something that inspired those.

 

[The Gronk]

Gygax and his crew drew heavily from existing fables/myths so I don't doubt that they came across something that inspired those.

"Originality is only undiscovered plagiarism"

"Stealing from one source is plagiarism, stealing from several sources is research"

- Writers proverbs

 

[Quantum Blue]

We are a company of many people with a variety of ideas on how things should work. Over the years you also get new people coming onboard with new ideas. Opinions also change over time, so what I thought 4 years ago when I started, may be different now.

AI uses rounded block health in their pathing calculations, not SI. It is tower defense and we want them to be able to reach you, but since we can't do massive piles of zombies, smarted ones will do. My zombies have xray/heat/magic vision that lets them see weak spots in blocks and their semi functioning brains lets them decide to go there. They also have a dim recollection that doors allow them to get places, so they favor them. My lore for now until I change my mind or the company decides to have some official lore.

That is what I was trying to convey.  Just phrased differently.

From my 2nd previous post to this one:

"How would you know how it's being refined by their developers and new staff as meetings and new or old ideas are discussed? "

From my previous post to this one:

"They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game.  That means getting to the player.  And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI."

 

[CultOfMoose]

I saw you got CallMeKevin to play. He's a good choice. 

 

[meganoth]

So you say brain stimulating device (which already exists) is a nonsense, but at the same time you can accept some unexplained "magic" that would explain zombies... Right... :classic_laugh:

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

 

[Quantum Blue]

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

Nano-robotics? ...    :semi-twins:

 

[The Gronk]

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

Of all people I would have expected _you_ to remember their Clarkisms. 

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Arthur C. Clarke

re:  the post above