PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[MechanicalLens]

Tazo's axe or tazons axe, something like that. 

I'm not sure if it's still in the game or not. If I remember right, it's in the desert biome. It's a weird looking area with stone pillars or something in a circle shaped area. I'm guessing it's supposed to be an Indian burial ground. It's in the center under neath a tree or statue, dig a few blocks under it & you reveal a chest. 

When you open it, it makes a weird Indian chant sound. I found it once on the ps4 version years ago.

That's Taza's Stone Axe, and the last I saw of it it was in A18. Don't know if TFP removed it or not.

 

[STyK_]

Did you happen to update windows to the 2004 build? I tried it out and it screwed up my sound and had to revert back to the previous build.

Actually it was the steel series engine. When it updated it took my headphones off 7.1 surround. It was like feeling around in the dark by comparison. I had to search everywhere around my base to find where the zeds were. All good now.

More good news, totally forgot that that I'd upgraded my pc package to a 1080ti 11gb when I bought it. Partially explains why I'm keeping decent frames on 64 Zed horde nights while recording. Been seeing what I can do about streaming. Definitely can't stream with the CPU on my i7-8700K 3.7ghz and record with my GPU at the same time like some guy was saying on youtube, gave me the blue screen of death after 15 min. Works pretty good just streaming off the GPU even in weird @%$*#! 838p resolution doing 6000kbs max quality to twitch though and considering most play on 720p I got room to back it down. We'll see what happens on a 64 zed horde night.

I'm going to do Jonahs new challenge. Wasteland only no traders with nitrogen, only on my settings ish, mite have to switch to 1h days to keep it comparable. He challenged anyone one to try it, :noidea: can't back down from a challenge. He plays on 32 zeds so I can always back it down if the gpu can't handle it also.

Wish I had that other 16gbs of ram now, even if I could buy it I imagine its a hell of a time getting it right now.

 

[Jay_ombie]

Are you using an SSD or a platter hard drive? 

An absolute shed-load of the data is held on the pagefile so the read/write speed of the hard drive may need to be taken into account.

SSD. But I can be stationary just looking in one direction so there isn’t anything loading up and my PC isn’t maxing out. 

Its puzzling, old system but it has this untapped potential for better FPS and it’s just not using it. 

 

[Jost Amman]

Tbh the zombie AI probably would work for bandit AI with some tweaks.  At least the melee variants. 

Yeah, but my question is if they are the first who've been developing such a complex Pathfinding / AI in a fully destructible voxel world.

I think the answer is yes... unless you can name ANY videogame that does that in the same type of environment.

Probably more a question for @faatal than madmole...

 

[The Gronk]

Yeah, but my question is if they are the first who've been developing such a complex Pathfinding / AI in a fully destructible voxel world.

I think the answer is yes... unless you can name ANY videogame that does that in the same type of environment.

Probably more a question for @faatal than madmole...

I hate to be the one to say this but the pathfinding isn't _that_ complex or new.  It's A* and has been around for about half a century now.  Not that TFP haven't done a fantastic job of implementing it by adding various bells and whistles but under all the shiny it's still an ancient algorithm (technologically speaking).

A* pathfinding in a procedurally generated world?  Probably the original "rogue" circa 1980.

Minecraft has had mobs pathfinding for many years before 7dtd was started and the only reason they have to jump everywhere is the lack of smooth terrain.

 

[Jost Amman]

I hate to be the one to say this but the pathfinding isn't _that_ complex or new.  It's A* and has been around for about half a century now.  Not that TFP haven't done a fantastic job of implementing it by adding various bells and whistles but under all the shiny it's still an ancient algorithm (technologically speaking).

A* pathfinding in a procedurally generated world?  Probably the original "rogue" circa 1980.

Minecraft has had mobs pathfinding for many years before 7dtd was started and the only reason they have to jump everywhere is the lack of smooth terrain.

Sorry, but you completely missed my point.

faatal clearly stated that pathfinding through a fully destructible voxel 3D world made of blocks is not a simple whatever you called it (A*) pathfinding.

He said you need to consider several factor, especially when you can break blocks to reach your goal... now imagine how difficult is to add cover for bandits or flanking: if the bandit finds a very good place to cover behind but that place is a wooden plate he wouldn't be very smart, would he?

 

[Cork55]

I'm going to do Jonahs new challenge. Wasteland only no traders with nitrogen, only on my settings ish, mite have to switch to 1h days to keep it comparable. He challenged anyone one to try it, :noidea: can't back down from a challenge. He plays on 32 zeds so I can always back it down if the gpu can't handle it also.

Wish I had that other 16gbs of ram now, even if I could buy it I imagine its a hell of a time getting it right now.

Here is another one for you to try. Your normal settings, wasteland only map, no starting inventory (The Duke took ALL your stuff), no traders and no skill points for completing the starter quest (just award 100 XP). It's a bit of a different start with no free skill points.

 

[The Gronk]

Sorry, but you completely missed my point.

faatal clearly stated that pathfinding through a fully destructible voxel 3D world made of blocks is not a simple whatever you called it (A*) pathfinding.

He said you need to consider several factor, especially when you can break blocks to reach your goal... now imagine how difficult is to add cover for bandits or flanking: if the bandit finds a very good place to cover behind but that place is a wooden plate he wouldn't be very smart, would he?

You're disagreeing with something you don't understand?  I'd love to see your proof that the pathing algorithm _isn't_ based on A*.

Once you've done that I'd be tempted to post the relevant bits of code from the dll's to prove my point but I'm not sure Roland would like me blurting out proprietry code on a public forum.

 

[meganoth]

Okay, Fun Pimps, this is a "serious issue". I'm looking down the sight of my M60 (not moving or swaying) and I've just noticed that its crosshairs and its sights are slightly offset.  What is the meaning of this?

You didn't take good care of your weapon and damaged it. Shame on you.

If you were talking about the tier 6 primitive weapons, it would be cool if there were some way to still get them. 

Like you can craft them, or they pollute the trader loot(like maybe a good chance they have 1 tier 6 primitive every refresh), or you do what you said before and primitive items cap at tier 5, lel. 

Do you know if that unique stone axe is still in the game?... if so I might just go hunt for that.

Don't make a drama out of it. Use the CM in SP or make a deal with the server admin in MP (you destroy 8000 coins, he gives you the tier6 axe)

 

[Jost Amman]

You're disagreeing with something you don't understand?  I'd love to see your proof that the pathing algorithm _isn't_ based on A*.

Once you've done that I'd be tempted to post the relevant bits of code from the dll's to prove my point but I'm not sure Roland would like me blurting out proprietry code on a public forum.

Don't worry, your e-peen is much bigger than mine, just try to understand my point here, I'm not saying they're not using whatever algorithm you mentioned, I'm saying that as far as faatal explained it some time ago, seems there's much more to that than just running some A* thing. Also, as I said, I'm not talking about simple pathing, I'm talking about pathing in the context of cover and flanking applied to the upcoming bandits AI.

That's where you're missing my point... I'm not talking from a "technical" standpoint but from a logic one.

You don't need to know how to build a car to understand the difference between an SUV and a racing car.

7D2D world is different from all the other games because it's not only made of blocks, but also made of voxels and destructible materials of different hardness and SI.

Also, if this is so common and has already been done since the 80' (total bullcrap since a fully destructible voxel world was used much later) I'm still waiting for a an example of a working advanced AI moving in a world like 7D2D. What I'm saying is that it seems like this is a first ever attempt at coding an AI for such a complex world.

 

[beHypE]

Honestly I doubt it will go as far as bandits taking cover behind blocks depending on how much HP the block has. I'd be pretty amazed if they take cover in a believable way at all. 

It's probably off topic and a stretch to know the extent of what they can achieve but making "realistic" bandit behaviours depending on their loadout, your own loadout and the surroundings is one hell of a task in such a game imo; even the zombies that are admittedly dumber creatures still have goofy pathing sometimes, and they follow a pretty basic "run down the shortest lane" that wouldn't ever make sense for human beings supposed to outsmart you (at least for some of them). Frankly I've had my doubts if we'd ever see bandits at all in 7 days, it's been such a quiet topic for so long now, I wouldn't be that surprised if it's set to be the major feature of the sequel. I hope to be wrong but I think most of us fantasize what behaviour the bandits could have way beyond what we'll see in the end product.

 

[The Gronk]

Don't worry, your e-peen is much bigger than mine, just try to understand my point here, I'm not saying they're not using whatever algorithm you mentioned, I'm saying that as far as faatal explained it some time ago, seems there's much more to that than just running some A* thing. Also, as I said, I'm not talking about simple pathing, I'm talking about pathing in the context of cover and flanking applied to the upcoming bandits AI.

That's where you're missing my point... I'm not talking from a "technical" standpoint but from a logic one.

You don't need to know how to build a car to understand the difference between an SUV and a racing car.

7D2D world is different from all the other games because it's not only made of blocks, but also made of voxels and destructible materials of different hardness and SI.

Also, if this is so common and has already been done since the 80' (total bullcrap since a fully destructible voxel world was used much later) I'm still waiting for a an example of a working advanced AI moving in a world like 7D2D. What I'm saying is that it seems like this is a first ever attempt at coding an AI for such a complex world.

It's nothing to do with e-peen, it's that your proposing arguments against concepts you don't understand and then turning into an ad-hominem attack.

Pathing and behaviour are two entirely separate concepts.

Voxel simply means "volumetric pixel", these can be 2d, 3d, 4d or even non-euclidean.

Spoiler

 


[/img]

 

[Gazz]

Okay, serious question... when you get into the upper game stages, does it become impossible to find tier 6 primitive items?

I believe only Taza's axe drops at higher levels but I'd have to check.

Okay, Fun Pimps, this is a "serious issue". I'm looking down the sight of my M60 (not moving or swaying) and I've just noticed that its crosshairs and its sights are slightly offset.  What is the meaning of this?

This is the dev diary, not bug reports.

 

[SolutOdka]

Hello, I have a suggestion for consideration,

I have been playing around with automated base designs, and I reached the conclusion that we are somehow missing a tool in the current pallet of triggers and timers .

The Timer Relay can set a timer from a certain fixed time to another fixed time (from HH:MM to HH:MM), but we do not have another timer relay to maintain power/energy only for a period in time (this many seconds, and then it stops).

For example, in my latest Horde Base (if interest in automated Horde Base you can watch here about the Pendulum), I have trigger plates in the end of each symmetrical tunnel, working with a 45seconds timer; and a light to show easily when they reach that end of tunnel (directly connected to the trigger plate).

But I could not put a speaker (or i should get 45seconds of the speaker horrible alarm sound) because i could not insert a relay in between this trigger plate to the speaker.

I think adding such a timer relay based on how long you want it to be active, would be making sense, and be very useful.

In my case I had to get 2 triggers... one for the defense and light, and a special one dedicated for the said speaker !

Cheers,

SolutOdka

 

[STyK_]

Here is another one for you to try. Your normal settings, wasteland only map, no starting inventory (The Duke took ALL your stuff), no traders and no skill points for completing the starter quest (just award 100 XP). It's a bit of a different start with no free skill points.

Now that would be tough! I could do without the starting gear but without the skill points I can't make my bone knife quality 3 and upgrade to deeps cuts/knife guy I think it is. Its pretty essential for getting away, if I run into certain zeds I'm pretty much KOS without it, its already like that if I run into the biker. If it wasn't Insane nightmare everything I'd say its do-able, perhaps if it were sprint.

If I beat wasteland only on Insane nightmare all the time 25% loot 64 zeds there won't be a whole lot I can do to top that without increasing blood moon frequency, which I'm not a fan of, so then I'll start trying to do it.

This challenge is about topping or matching Jonahs challenge, his is wasteland only no trader 50% loot no loot respawn insane nightmare all the time 32 zeds 1h days. Mine will be, if my pc can handle it on horde night while streaming, wasteland only no trader 25% loot no loot respawn insane nightmare all the time 64 zeds 1h days no airdrops. And of course no nerd pol and no base that takes advantage of pathing. I don't believe I can do this one on the first try .

Pretty bored at the moment since a certain game totally botched its release. Another "we didn't know we'd be so popular" release in 2020  :nono: , history teaches nothing apparently.

 

[Cork55]

Now that would be tough! I could do without the starting gear but without the skill points I can't make my bone knife quality 3 and upgrade to deeps cuts/knife guy I think it is. Its pretty essential for getting away, if I run into certain zeds I'm pretty much KOS without it, its already like that if I run into the biker. If it wasn't Insane nightmare everything I'd say its do-able, perhaps if it were sprint.

If I beat wasteland only on Insane nightmare all the time 25% loot 64 zeds there won't be a whole lot I can do to top that without increasing blood moon frequency, which I'm not a fan of, so then I'll start trying to do it.

This challenge is about topping or matching Jonahs challenge, his is wasteland only no trader 50% loot no loot respawn insane nightmare all the time 32 zeds 1h days. Mine will be, if my pc can handle it on horde night while streaming, wasteland only no trader 25% loot no loot respawn insane nightmare all the time 64 zeds 1h days no airdrops. And of course no nerd pol and no base that takes advantage of pathing. I don't believe I can do this one on the first try .

Pretty bored at the moment since a certain game totally botched its release. Another "we didn't know we'd be so popular" release in 2020  :nono: , history teaches nothing apparently.

Your skill points would be awarded once you complete the trader quest. You could also make wood frames and all wood items require a nail as well. That places a much larger value on the forge. Alternative 7dtd starts are kind of fun to explore.

Wasteland only maps are really easier than you might think. The key is to scavenge everything that is useful.

 

[Gojan1]

@madmole just wondering will there be more wildlife anytime soon? like fish, or birds. zombie squids?  and i noticed the behemoth was still in the XML files. any chance that it will join the zombies anytime?

 

[STyK_]

Your skill points would be awarded once you complete the trader quest. You could also make wood frames and all wood items require a nail as well. That places a much larger value on the forge. Alternative 7dtd starts are kind of fun to explore.

Wasteland only maps are really easier than you might think. The key is to scavenge everything that is useful.

It is the hardest biom though, full of landmines and doggos. Its pretty much the end of the road as far as we can make it difficult wise without really modding, without as I mentioned increasing blood moon or turning down exp. Its not really 7 days to die anymore after that, its 7 days of dieing unless you turn down the diff/speed. 25% loot doesn't really give enough to handle more hordes and I'm a pack rat, I take it all unless its useless like 1 lead or equivalent junk, in this case cans too. Only using Nitrogen because regular random gen doesn't cut it at the moment, you can't make maps like this otherwise I wouldn't mod at all. Once you turn off EAC for mods legitimacy comes into question, viewers even question the use of nitrogen on twitch.

I took off the snow and desert pole strips he has so no oil shale for me, totally dependent on salvage.

I encourage anyone else to jump on the challenge with us! Here's my map settings and I've listed my game settings, I don't want to see the map so I can't provide a picture.

Out do me.

Spoiler

If it isn't recorded or streamed though then its not really proof for the challenge.

*Forgot to add permadeath to the rules.*

 

[pregnable]

Don't make a drama out of it. Use the CM in SP or make a deal with the server admin in MP (you destroy 8000 coins, he gives you the tier6 axe)

ACCHUWALLLY... I am making a drama out of it... I have a semi allstar cast, and have been pre-approved for 2 seasons, for 40 episodes.  It is going to be amazing, believe me. 

There are valid reasons for using a primitive tool or weapon late game, but it looks like you only have a certain window to find T6 now, or else you are totally locked out. 

It is not a huge deal, but I keep hearing how OP traders are for gear, so having tier 6 primitive items in their loot pool where you usually see 1 per reset doesn't sound bad.

I do not like using cheat mode and it is just a minor issue in my current game, so I figured this would be the place to talk about it, lel. 

 

[Pegasus]

@madmole First, I love love love the new inventory sort buttons ... although I'm an old dog and I am having difficulty teaching myself to stop clicking the little backpack icon to sort.  LOL

Suggestion ... can the smart stash button add all similar items ... not just all similar items until the stack is filled up?  Or can another button be made that will stash all of an item if there's at least one of that item, creating new stacks as needed?  For instance, if your storage bin has a partial stack of stone, and your backpack has ten stacks of stone, the smart fill will only take the stone out of your backpack to make one full stack in the storage container.  You need to manually move all the other stacks of stone.  

I don't know if that makes sense?