PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Adam the Waster]

i do enjoy more choices for wear, i remember wearing a full suit in old alpha 15 you would be so protected from the snow biome.

they keep adding more and im loving it, all i need now is a lot of cosmetic items to craft for my home or to simply buy them from the trader and i would have more fun building lol

plus it would give a challenge, You're rad suit is about to break and you need to find somewhere safe to repair!

adds some drama!

 

[MechanicalLens]

Nobody is forcing you.

My advice is to... just play!

Otherwise you're going back to LBD where you'd be crafting 1000 stone axes because you NEED to get better at crafting.

I think that most people make their games less fun because they think too much outside of the game.

Try role playing more, think what you would do in a similar situation... it's like saying:

"I'm not buying this city car because I know in the future I'll be able to buy a racing car!"

Well, you know what? Then you'll need to buy very good shoes since you'll be walking a lot in the future! 

The point of my post was not one out of outcry. Think of it more as a report than anything else.  Marking down safes on the map and coming back to them later is more of a natural consequence than anything else. No, nobody is forcing me to do so. Humans always find the most convenient (in this case, not out of laziness, but out of intellect) route when doing things though.

Also, don't compare my post to LBD, alright? Apples and oranges here.

At the end of the day, people tend to play smart, not hard, or at least that is the trend nowadays. Player X decides not to break into safe early on. Player X does not want to "waste" lockpicking candy on safe. Player X does not want to lose safe, so they mark it on the map. Player X returns when their lootstage is higher and when they have enough safes on the map so that they can "exploit" the lockpicking candy to its fullest potential. Them returning to loot the safes when their gamestage is higher will probably prove to be a secondary bonus rather than an influential primary objective. I see this becoming a trend, rather than an unfortunate consequence. I'm not screaming and bellowing like an SJW, I'm just the wise "old" council member sitting in the back revealing the probable data.

Again, I cannot repeat this enough, I am not complaining. (Other than Jailbreakers being too OP in my opinion. Imagine if the salvaging candy, when active, guaranteed you one brass radiator/engine/battery from every car, for example. I think that Jailbreakers should align with the rest of the game (such as the lockpicking perk) rather than being the end all be all for that one particular feature of it.) I'm simply sharing my story from my perspective.

 

[Laz Man]

This is probably the first alpha since A16 where I'm actively marking everyone gun safe, wall safe, desk safe, and locked reinforced chest on the map and saving them to open for later. It would be foolish of me to waste potentially upwards of 20+ lockpicks on one or to spend a whole in-game hour or more breaking into each one with my stone axe, and knowing that I'm either going to get mediocre loot early game, or at least loot that I could have gotten anywhere else. Therefore, I fall onto the Jailbreakers candy, and I might not open any safe until I'm past gamestage 50 or so. I no longer see them as an immediate extension of a loot room or an extra bonus container placed somewhere in a POI, but rather as something that I'll simply return to later. This is more of an observation, from my perspective a new path that has naturally sprouted through the current loot progression system, rather than as a complaint. I understand that what we currently have is not yet fully baked, and while this strategic move I have chosen isn't necessarily a product of a clunky system, but nonetheless I'd like to suggest a small change that might get players to reconsider this move regarding locked loot containers. As far as I know, I'm the only one doing this, but I suspect that this trend will continue with others; again, it seems more like a natural response rather than a niche move.

Might I suggest that certain loot containers, such as gun safes, could have a higher chance of giving the player a low quality firearm early on? Or if it's possible, could certain loot containers, such as gun safes, have their own unique gamestage/lootstage modifiers attached to them? (For balance reasons this bonus would probably have to diminish over time, much like the usefulness of the Lucky Looter perk.) With this hypothetical system in place, let's say the player is currently looting level 2 blunderbusses but then happens upon a desk safe, which at that point in the game has a higher chance of granting the player a higher level blunderbuss than what they would currently find in weapon bags and the like. The player would then be tempted to either break into it by hand, waste a few lockpicks, chug a lockpicking candy, or again, save it for a rainy day.

Not criticizing the candies here really, but with the Jailbreaker's added to the game, the idea above wouldn't necessarily work as well as it could unless the candy was nerfed, and/or showed up in vending machines a lot less often. Nonetheless, I believe that this course of action should take place anyway. 100% chance of success is quite steep in my eyes.

In general though, will certain loot containers have a higher percentage chance of dropping specific loot in the future? (Ex. Hardened chests would have a higher chance of dropping T3 items, like M60's, Auto Shotguns, and the like.)

Edit: Basically, safes are nothing special in terms of drops, they are very inconvenient to break into early on, and the player will want to save their Jailbreakers for a time when they can use it to its fullest potential while also having a chance of getting something decent from the safes in question. If TFP didn't suspect this strategy/natural path coming (read above for details), well here it is, for better, for worse, or "for neutral". Shrugs

Based on what they shared about the future infestation quests, I would guess they will somehow create a multiplier that increases the difficulty (e.g. zombie count)...and maybe the loot as well (e.g. higher gs) within a given POI...

Either that or a gs loot multiplier for certain areas (e.g. biomes)

This would allow them to increase loot quality without having to update each POI or create new ones....

 

[Jost Amman]

At the end of the day, people tend to play smart, not hard, or at least that is the trend nowadays.

We have different definitions of "smart" then. 

For me that looks more like OCD game play than smart game play.

Suspension of disbelief while playing, is smart, because allows you to immerse in the game and have fun.

Also, I'd leave to Game Spark deciding what people will do with feature X or Y... it's been added for that after all so we don't have to guess anymore! 

 

[shorgan]

Breaking Gun Safes in early gameis a waste of time for the loot you get ...

so finding a gun safe in early game is mostly a disappointing for me.

I guess lock picks were too good (and loot better) in alpha 18.

 

[Khalagar]

Worst melee weapon in the game doesn't automatically mean useless

Well, yeah. That goes back to my "you can play the game naked without ever using a weapon or  killing a zombie" thing lol. Spear / Machete / Stun Baton are all perfectly usable, they are just sub-optimal compared to other options. 

I think another thing that's hurting spear's niche a lot ATM is the weird range all melee weapons have in A19. In A18, you had to be rubbing nipples with the zombie to hit with melee, so the longer range spear was amazing. Now you can conk a zombie in the face from like halfway across a room with a short range club, so the spear's range isn't that much of an asset.

why wait around for 30 seconds for that zombie to maybe bleed to death when I can go over to it and finish the fight right now?"

Yep, this is exactly why both the Stun Baton and Machete will never be great without just having the same damage as a club but also having their gimmick, and why the Junk Sledge is not good in handheld. DoT is basically *always* bad in all games, because burst is just the better damage type, the only exceptions are when the devs get tired of people complaining and make DoT proc so fast it's basically just burst damage

Madmole mentioned a bleed rework (for players) but that might work on Machete too and make it a bit better. ATM you can spend 20 seconds screwing around trying to bleed or stun a zombie to death while praying you proc the dismember chance, or you can just . . .y'know, kill them with a club or sledge or axe.

You should try it with the replusor!

I've done a bit of testing with it, but it didn't seem that amazing, maybe I need to test it some more. It really seemed like it was just relying on the 50% dismember chance to do basically everything. You can pop the AoE stun candy (which needs to just be a base attribute) but if you compared that to any other melee weapon + Skull Crushers it's pretty heavily not in the favor of the Stun Baton again

Fun though, I like the way it looks

This is probably the first alpha since A16 where I'm actively marking everyone gun safe, wall safe, desk safe, and locked reinforced chest on the map and saving them to open for later. It would be foolish of me to waste potentially upwards of 20+ lockpicks on one or to spend a whole in-game hour or more breaking into each one with my stone axe, and knowing that I'm either going to get mediocre loot early game, or at least loot that I could have gotten anywhere else. Therefore, I fall onto the Jailbreakers candy, and I might not open any safe until I'm past gamestage 50 or so

For the game stage thing, I just set loot respawns to be 5 days honestly. I just go back through houses sometimes to see what's respawned. The default respawn is WAY too high, I wish there was a "7 days" option where it all respawns every 7th day so you can go again. That makes it so you don't have to wait until end game to open it

I feel you though about opening it and getting crap. I can usually walk away with something decent early game, but several times I've spent 10 minutes whacking on one with a level 3 or 4 stone axe and opened it find a level 2 stone axe and nothing else. Whooooo

I'm not against finding stone tools and weapons, I get a lot of upgrades that way honestly, but it'd be nice if the game had a check to see if it was still spawning stone crap worse than what I already have or can craft at least. Finding a low level iron tool is not nearly as annoying because you can scrap them or sell them, stone items are flat out worthless if they are not higher level than what you currently have, not even worth scrapping

 

[MechanicalLens]

We have different definitions of "smart" then. 

For me that looks more like OCD game play than smart game play.

Suspension of disbelief while playing, is smart, because allows you to immerse in the game and have fun.

Also, I'd leave to Game Spark deciding what people will do with feature X or Y... it's been added for that after all so we don't have to guess anymore! 

Did I say that I'm not having fun? Hmm? Tell me, at what point did I express any kind of frustration or ire? I'm waiting, and I'm going to be waiting an awfully long time, because you're not going to be finding anything.

This pretty much all falls onto Jailbreakers however. Do you not agree that a candy that guarantees you opening every single locked container for 10 straight minutes is at least a bit unbalanced, while also completely devaluing the lockpicking perk? (A casualty I don't care about really, but a casualty nonetheless.) I could break into every safe I come across with my primitive stone axe, or I could sacrifice potentially every lockpick I have on me, or I could purchase a jailbreakers and get into it at a later date, with that particular date varying from "pretty soon" to "many days from now". Now, I could use one candy per safe - nothing is stopping me from doing that - but why do that when I can open 20 safes, one after the other, without fail? By that point I would happen to get better loot from them anyway.

No, I am not forced to use Lockbreakers - that's not the point here. The point here is that, in my opinion - perhaps I'm in the minority though - the success rate of breaking into locked containers while under the status effect of the lockpicking candy should be quite a bit lower, ie not guaranteed. Again, let me point you to my example of if the salvaging candy guaranteed you an engine/battery/brass radiator from every car, regardless if they're a full car, half-beaten, or a chassis. Sure, I could refuse to use said candy because "I felt that it's too OP", but it would be irresponsible for me, as a player of an alpha game, to not point out something that I feel is imbalanced.

 

[Tetrameth]

Player X decides not to break into safe early on. Player X does not want to "waste" lockpicking candy on safe. Player X does not want to lose safe, so they mark it on the map. Player X returns when their lootstage is higher and when they have enough safes on the map so that they can "exploit" the lockpicking candy to its fullest potential.

Sounds very much like that argument that was banging around the forums many moons ago regarding 'only letting the person with the highest looting skills/bonuses open chests'.

Whilst I think this feature of drawing out the early game more (which was much needed and a very long time coming), it has very much broken my desire to open any safes etc, whilst my looting levels are low. I now only really do it till I get an early foothold in the game. In fact (and as it has been so for a fair while now), achieving all the looting skills kind of largely dominate my early game.

They should just remove the looting skills entirely. What is in the chest, you find, what isn't, you don't...

 

[Ralathar44]

If the issue was fixed with spears falling through the world, I'd be tempted to use them again.  Before B169 I started a temp world and I lost 5 stone spears in 2 in-game days.

Yeah, making sure spears never fell through the world (or if they do they end up somewhere you can still get) is important too.  Though I personally have never had it happen since they put a UI element on it.

Safes rant rawr spit anger broo ha ha OwO

TBH I think when they have POI specific gamestage code in the next update they should make all low gamestage loot unlocked and have a looted appearance if possible.  Solves people's perceptions about what they "should" contain and also prevents you from needing to invest so much effort into a durable locked safe that no longer has the same returns that used to justify defeating those locks.

 

[STyK_]

At the end of the day, people tend to play smart, not hard, or at least that is the trend nowadays.

It depends how you want to play, if realism is a thing for you in the game, if you RP.

A frame burns for longer(or it did) but who the hell would build something to put it in the fire, and then somehow it burns longer. So I just burn wood and chairs. I've talked alot about how I play so I don't need to go on but its a decent example.

 

[MechanicalLens]

TBH I think when they have POI specific gamestage code in the next update they should make all low gamestage loot unlocked and have a looted appearance if possible.  Solves people's perceptions about what they "should" contain and also prevents you from needing to invest so much effort into a durable locked safe that no longer has the same returns that used to justify defeating those locks.

Agreed. Sorry if it came off as a rant, but it's an objective fact: in general (not on a case by case basis), that gun safe will probably give you similar/identical items to an alternative unlocked container. Safes have to be broken into, which will cost you either a lot of time, a lot of lockpicks, or 100 dukes; the final option seems the most attractive, but still. Therefore, I just leave safes until later on when I have the means to crack into them, and by that point I either have high quality iron tools, or I go, "Hey, lockpicking candy is a thing. Might as well break into them in record time."

I'm not saying this is the only way to play. I'm not forcing any kind of "ideology" onto anyone here. But safes, as of now, are, to put it simply, just as valuable as any unlocked container, which is an unfortunate reality.

 

[Ralathar44]

Unless you've added that in A19, no, that has never been the case. At least not for the past few/several alphas.

I think it's fairly balanced as is anyway. With spikes, especially whole fields of them surrounding your compound, killing zombies for you, you end up using less ammunition. The trade-off? You don't get any XP from the kills the spikes produce.

If there was ever a skill that let you build one time traps like spikes, mines, and maybe add a few new ones like deadfalls, log traps, etc then I hope it'd just give you a set amount of exp for every zombie nearby that died to one of those traps within your claimed land area.

Agreed. Sorry if it came off as a rant, but it's an objective fact: in general (not on a case by case basis), that gun safe will probably give you similar/identical items to an alternative unlocked container. Safes have to be broken into, which will cost you either a lot of time, a lot of lockpicks, or 100 dukes; the final option seems the most attractive, but still. Therefore, I just leave safes until later on when I have the means to crack into them, and by that point I either have high quality iron tools, or I go, "Hey, lockpicking candy is a thing. Might as well break into them in record time."

It was a bit of a rant but the way you presented it felt warranted and pretty on target.  My flavor text in the quote was more for the sake of levity than anything .  The loot in them being stone or low tier isn't much of a problem, but them being locked and having that loot is an issue because locks take significant amount of lockpick or time to defeat so it throws the investment vs reward out of wack.

Some people are upset about what spawns EVERYWHERE, but it's consistent at least.  However the safes/locked chests spawning the same value of stuff in general as non-locked stuff is a definitive imbalance.  Even if you're getting useful higher level stone tools from them that's not worth the time or the lock picks because you'll upgrade those tools from other loot soon anyways.

 

[MechanicalLens]

It depends how you want to play, if realism is a thing for you in the game, if you RP.

A frame burns for longer(or it did) but who the hell would build something to put it in the fire, and then somehow it burns longer. So I just burn wood and chairs. I've talked alot about how I play so I don't need to go on but its a decent example.

As I said previously, this isn't a case about roleplaying, immersion, or any of that. It just makes sense, gameplay wise, that a container that is harder to get into should, if at least a chance, give the player better quality loot vs easier loot containers (to break into, or in this case, not at all).

 

[Khalagar]

People use RP as an excuse for every single game in existence to not be balanced, it's not a good argument to me. Yes you can use sub-optimal weapons or perks for fun or for a challenge. No, that does not mean they should not be buffed to be on par with the other options. The end goal should always be for there to be multiple viable options that are side grades to each other with all of your options well balanced against their competitors

MechanicalLens mentioned Jailbreakers making the lockpick perk completely pointless and it's spot on. I call Megacrush "Cardio in a Can" too because it's literally better than Cardio. My friend wasted  points on Cardio, I drank a megacrush instead, and beat him in a 1,000 meter race to a PoI handily. Why would you want to waste perk points on a perk that is just not good? You can RP as someone who is good at picking locks, and then just eat a jailbreaker and spend those 5 3 points on something that's not bad, and if you aren't role playing, picking the lock without jailbreakers has never been a very good way to open stuff. Auger / Explosives / OP as crap Shotgun are all faster and more consistent than lockpicks

Doesn't really matter tho, Gazz and Madmole have both said they are happy with the perk system the way it is and aren't reworking it, and their opinion is the only one that changes the game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[MechanicalLens]

Some people are upset about what spawns EVERYWHERE, but it's consistent at least.  However the safes/locked chests spawning the same value of stuff in general as non-locked stuff is a definitive imbalance.  Even if you're getting useful higher level stone tools from them that's not worth the time or the lock picks because you'll upgrade those tools from other loot soon anyways.

To be honest it was more of me bouncing back and forth than a rant, or at least from my perspective. But fine, a rant it is.  I was just identifying a current problem -  why are a lot of players not breaking into safes? - and I initially reasoned that Jailbreakers are to blame and that they have broken the game! But no, it's obviously because the time you break into a gun safe or two small safes, you could have looted half of an entire small house and accessed a reinforced chest FOR FREE that would have given you the same type of items.  Again, I hope this is addressed in A20.

People use RP as an excuse for every single game in existence to not be balanced, it's not a good argument to me. Yes you can use sub-optimal weapons or perks for fun or for a challenge. No, that does not mean they should not be buffed to be on par with the other options. The end goal should always be for there to be multiple viable options that are side grades to each other with all of your options well balanced against their competitors

MechanicalLens mentioned Jailbreakers making the lockpick perk completely pointless and it's spot on. I call Megacrush "Cardio in a Can" too because it's literally better than Cardio. My friend wasted 5 points on Cardio, I drank a megacrush instead, and beat him in a 1,000 meter race to a PoI handily. Why would you want to waste perk points on a perk that is just not good? You can RP as someone who is good at picking locks, and then just eat a jailbreaker and spend those 5 points on something that's not bad, and if you aren't role playing, picking the lock without jailbreakers has never been a very good way to open stuff. Auger / Explosives / OP as crap Shotgun are all faster and more consistent than lockpicks

Doesn't really matter tho, Gazz and Madmole have both said they are happy with the perk system the way it is and aren't reworking it, and their opinion is the only one that changes the game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not pointing fingers here, but I completely agree with you here. Telling somebody to, "not engage with it because you don't agree with it" isn't helpful for anyone. All it does is it shuts down a conversation when there might legitimately might be an issue.  

Precisely. The Hackers candy does not completely replace Salvage Operations; it works alongside it. It might save you a perk point, or you could fully spec and get an additional bonus of 20%. Jailbreakers should provide the same functionality in my opinion.

 

[Ralathar44]

People use RP as an excuse for every single game in existence to not be balanced, it's not a good argument to me. Yes you can use sub-optimal weapons or perks for fun or for a challenge. No, that does not mean they should not be buffed to be on par with the other options. The end goal should always be for there to be multiple viable options that are side grades to each other with all of your options well balanced against their competitors.

Agreed.  I liked Junk turrets alot, but in their original release they were great for everyone BUT Int spec and that was not ok.  They couldn't pull their own weight as a weapon.  So I tested and commented on threads and made videos.  And after giving a bit of pushback initially TFP went back and drastically improved the functionality of junk turrets both in terms of usability/QOL but in terms of balance too.  I need to do an int run to see where the most bit of help put them.  I'll call for nerfs if I think they are needed just as quickly as I would call for buffs.  I'll enjoy them regardless of their exact balancing, but I DO want options to be competitive and not totally underwhelming or overwhelming.  +/-15% of the power level of most other options is fine, I grade on the jedi/mana curve .

When it comes to balance affecting stuff, balance matters regardless of if someone is ok or not ok with it .  I'm not terribly concerned about the exact gradient of balance, that's more of a subjective feel thing I can adapt to pretty easily unless the disconnect is extreme, but it should be consistent balance.
 

MechanicalLens mentioned Jailbreakers making the lockpick perk completely pointless and it's spot on. I call Megacrush "Cardio in a Can" too because it's literally better than Cardio. My friend wasted  points on Cardio, I drank a megacrush instead, and beat him in a 1,000 meter race to a PoI handily. Why would you want to waste perk points on a perk that is just not good? You can RP as someone who is good at picking locks, and then just eat a jailbreaker and spend those 5 points on something that's not bad, and if you aren't role playing, picking the lock without jailbreakers has never been a very good way to open stuff. Auger / Explosives / OP as crap Shotgun are all faster and more consistent than lockpicks

Both lockpicking perk and cardio need buffs.  Lockpicking is useful and the perk is useful, just nowhere near enough to justify points.  Our points are very limited now, it's not like the old days you could just sling those points around.  Lockpicking just doesn't make the cut in the current skill point economy.  If it was twice as good AND it gave you a SMALL buff to the loot quality within the chest/safe you opened it might be worth taking again.  But as is?  Waste of points IMO.

Cardio used to be fantastic but it just isn't anymore.  Either it needs to get more added to the skill or it should be rolled into Well Insulated and then give the combined perk a new name like "Survivalist" or something.

Doesn't really matter tho, Gazz and Madmole have both said they are happy with the perk system the way it is and aren't reworking it, and their opinion is the only one that changes the game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm more optimistic than that.  I feel like they do seem to adjust over time for the better.  I'm both happy that they are willing to give pushback and fight for their vision and happy that they seem to be willing to re-evaluate things later too.  IMO that's how it should be.

 

[Slingblade2040]

any word on when the next update is going to fix all the problems b169 caused? game is a bit on the unplayable side this experimental it seems.

 

[bloodmoth13]

Yep, spears really just need a chain mechanic that automatically retracts it to you. Sure, it'd just be a weird bow at that point, but who cares, it would actually be more usable. That would let you run a single modded out spear and not have to waste an entire row of your inventory with spears

Currently you have to run 2-4+ spears, which means you need 2-4 times more mods than the other melee weapons, and you have a pretty decent chance of your spear falling through the map and losing all your mods on it. Plus the inventory bar thing making them really bad.  Even if the spear had a chain to go back to your hotbar, actual damage per hit and damage per second wise it doesn't really do nearly as much damage as a Club or Sledge

I don't know if I'd say Spears are the worst melee weapon in the game, the stun baton and machete are pretty meh, but spears are basically only early game for me. The throw range makes them really useful until you get a better weapon, but with the buffs to the bow sneak damage, the spear's niche got taken away for me. I don't even typically craft them at all now even on day 1

There is a chain mod for the clubs, they should make them work for spears that do just that.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Both lockpicking perk and cardio need buffs.

Jailbreakers replaces the Lockpicking perk. Enough said.  3 perk points vs 100 dukes that could open as many as 30+ safes. Hmm... 

 

[Ralathar44]

Jailbreakers replaces the Lockpicking perk. Enough said.  3 perk points vs 100 dukes that could open as many as 30+ safes. Hmm... 

You'd have to carry it around in your inventory at all times and purchase it though.  Then remember to eat it .  That being said, you can see by my suggested buff to the lockpicking perk how much ground I believe it needs to cover to be ok.  I suggesting literally doubling it's values as well as adding a small loot bonus to the opened safe/chest.  The loot buff would be something jailbreakers cannot provide and at a doubled value it's way better than jailbreakers.  Though TBH I'd expect jailbreakers to be cut in half along that with change.  It'd still be a significant lockpicking buff worth carrying around for anyone not rocking perception.