PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Aldranon]

With Attributes, the two "Big Boys" are Strength and Fortitude, with the others currently in supporting roles.

That said, I do like maxing out INT (using nerd glasses) so I can play with two sledge turrets instead of one. 

Thats a huge "waste" of points, unless you account for the endless giggles I get when a zombie is worked over by two of them!

Then Intelligence wins hands down for me!  So I guess the other attributes are fun based too. (but not as fun to me)

 

[NukemDed]

ffs aĺl of you. this thing is far too complex to balance (whatever that means) to suit everone.

just play the game and enjoy it.

i start each game and see what the rmg offers then pick stats to suit in tandem with what mags i find 

 every play thru is therefore different and FUN.

stfu and play

 

[RhinoW]

And I see you're absolutely ok with stealth being partially broken.

But I'm sure everything will be fixed in time... I just don't understand why everyone is denying or belittling problems and partially broken systems.

If anything should go into A19.1/2 should be these kind of fixes IMO.

I mean, it's alpha, as Madmole said you still need to wrap up some of the main systems, so there's no shame to admit that some of them can still have bugs and/or broken parts that are evident while playing. But I feel like I'm beating an undead horse so I'll stop here.

Stealth? Broken? Mate i think you are thinking of a different game. I mostly go for agility tree when I play this game and let me tell you, unless you freaking max rank the stealth perk, zombies will still be alerted out of nowhere. Even without perks sometimes you can stand in front of a sitting sleeper and he won't notice you.

Stealth damage is a different story, but then again, mention any game with a stealth damage mechanic that isn't "broken".

If anything, the most broken thing about an agility build is the deep cuts perk + fury of blows, that @%$*#! is super consistent. And perhaps run and gun.

 

[HungryZombie]

Nah, I was not walking over trash. 

The one spot is after you go up the first ladder.  I got up it and was fine, then I had to go back into sneak mode. 

I waited a bit after going into sneak mode and then as soon as I passed midway by the wall they wake up and come for me. 

Maybe they are actually right next to the wall on the other side or something and their visibility range is glitching through the wall?

I noticed while playing that in a number of POIs there seemed to be spots where I would be sneaking, not hit trash or anything, and my stealth says I am super stealthy, and certain nearby zombies just wake up. 

Was your stealth skill maxed out?

 

[Aldranon]

Most competent players I know do just fine using any perks or attribute points and "Dead-is-Dead" rules.

The real test, however, is always the "Mass Ambush" moments in POI's when playing SP.  I think most people know a few POI's that fit the bill.

There is a real difference in a tweaked out character and a "just-for-fun-let's-see-what-happens" play through one, during those moments.  (Of course, once you know the trap is there... do you let it happen again?)

 

[meganoth]

I guess I tend to put at least 3 points in most Attributes (sans PER), so basically it's a free point regardless whether it's in INT, or STR, or AGI.  Add onto that, the 10% XP gain (on everything you do), plus crafting speed bonus...vs just that single point with the Ski Goggles or Tough Guy Glasses.   I just don't see the point of the other eyewear (except the Lucky Goggles and Night Vision), and it's a shame.

No, if you do it right, it is 3 free perk points, not 1. Perk an attribute like Fortitude to 9, and the tough guy glasses save you 3 levels worth of perk points to get that last step to 10.

But it absolutely okay if you prefer the nerd glasses. Alternatives are good and the nerd glasses can be considered as one of the advantages INT gets over the other attributes.

 

[jdifran]

People underestimate zombie hearing. They detect you more by hearing than seeing. We do not have audio occlusion, so walls do not block sounds.

With zero light and maximum stealth perks, they will always see/hear at some minimum distance like 1m.

So how is a sneak attack with a knife ever supposed to be effective if they always wake up before you can get within 1m?  Is the knife reach actually longer than 1m?

 

[Ezed]

No, if you do it right, it is 3 free perk points, not 1. Perk an attribute like Fortitude to 9, and the tough guy glasses save you 3 levels worth of perk points to get that last step to 10.

But it absolutely okay if you prefer the nerd glasses. Alternatives are good and the nerd glasses can be considered as one of the advantages INT gets over the other attributes.

Hmm...true.  I rarely play a save long enough to get any to 10 but ya...  

Anyway, the point was to ask for any news, I don't think there's any forthcoming.  I'll get back to miscalculating stuff...cheers! 

 

[SnowDog1942]

Where dat A20 thread tho.

Getting hard just thinking about it.

 

[USSF06]

So how is a sneak attack with a knife ever supposed to be effective if they always wake up before you can get within 1m?  Is the knife reach actually longer than 1m?

I don't understand where this argument against stealth comes from.  Myself and others on my server have had an absolute blast using knives and the stealth bonuses.  If you are waking up zombies before getting close enough to stealth kill them, then that's your problem.  Nothing feels broken, in my opinion.  If anything, the stealth perk can actually feel OP.  With every new Alpha comes a change in tactics.  I have never been a knife fighter in 7DTD until A19.  Now the bone knife is my favorite starting weapon for 2 reasons:  stealth damage and bleeding damage.

 

[meganoth]

And I see you're absolutely ok with stealth being partially broken.

But I'm sure everything will be fixed in time... I just don't understand why everyone is denying or belittling problems and partially broken systems.

If anything should go into A19.1/2 should be these kind of fixes IMO.

I mean, it's alpha, as Madmole said you still need to wrap up some of the main systems, so there's no shame to admit that some of them can still have bugs and/or broken parts that are evident while playing. But I feel like I'm beating an undead horse so I'll stop here.

The reality is, there will always be mechanisms in the game that are left to abstraction aka broken for anyone not accepting the abstraction. Improving them also depends on whether there is actually a way that doesn't cost too much developer resources or fps.

I actually think your list is a good checklist of (optional?) things that could be improved about stealth:

Those heli landing spots on tier5 buildings are especially bad at spawing zombies in plain sight. I would add generator boxes or a lowered service walkway around the heli platform. Some other POIs could be improved that way as well. But they probably don't have the time or intention to fundamentally change the spawning mechanism. They probably can't prevent spawns in plain sight in each and every case. By the way: I am calling it "plain sight" even if the spawn happens just when I don't look at a spot for a split second.

Your point 2 (light that pushes the sneak meter up but nothing happens) might actually be a real bug, but did anyone make a bug report with reproducible steps? Because detection is random, this isn't easy to prove or disprove. Is it really a bug or just a situation that leads to detection only in 1/4 of all cases? You claim it is broken, but you left out any evidence.

I'm relatively sure they won't improve it to the point where shining a lamp into a zombies eye would be different than having it turned away from the zombie. This costs FPS. It sadly also means that a zombie will react to the light the same way whether a wall is inbetween or not.

Point 1 (sound of arrow impact is ignored) is problematic. If you simulate arrow impact sound you must also simulate bullet impact. That might be ok for the hunting rifle, but once 8 people on horde night shoot with M60s at the zombies that rather simple check might generate a big drop of fps.

Generally, the Dev Dairy is not the place for bug reports. If you make hazy claims, expect hazy replies.

So how is a sneak attack with a knife ever supposed to be effective if they always wake up before you can get within 1m?  Is the knife reach actually longer than 1m?

In A17 I stealth-ran to a distance near enough for the knife and immediately tried to cut their head off. Did not always succeed but often enough. Since then I was busy with trying out other attributes so not perfectly sure if it still works, but generally weapon reach now is greater than in A17.

 

[USSF06]

In A17 I stealth-ran to a distance near enough for the knife and immediately tried to cut their head off. Did not always succeed but often enough. Since then I was busy with trying out other attributes so not perfectly sure if it still works, but generally weapon reach now is greater than in A17.

You can sneak right up to them now.  There is a "window" where you must start your attack while walking (early game), but it is easy to time.  Once you have points into stealth, you can easily sneak up and stealth kill them.

 

[Noctoras]

With Attributes, the two "Big Boys" are Strength and Fortitude, with the others currently in supporting roles.

 That. But basically, separating character developments into specific builds is unnecessary anyway for a SP/Coop game in my eyes. Supporting roles are reasonable in designated multiplayer team games (like battlefield), not in a single player sandbox game.  

Then again, it's not really detrimental to gameplay either, so I just take it as "it's there." 

 

[Adam the Waster]

@madmole could we see the military truck as a drivable vehicle in a future Alpha, would be neet to see since the model is already in the game?

You could make it like the auger where you have to find the schematics to build it, with their being no perk to unlock it. 

Would be a nice end game thing that can hold 6 people 

personally i think it would make more sense to make a Apocalyptic Van or bus. plus it could fit in with the game more, it could have more space then the 4x4 but its slower and chugs gas! 

if someone wants to replace the model with a Army truck sure! 

but do i think TFP will do that? 

no  

Where dat A20 thread tho.

Getting hard just thinking about it.

WHERE ARE THE GASSERS GOING! 

 

[Laz Man]

Yeah sure, I believe one spot is business_burnt_02, right after you go up the ladder and have to pass through the elevator shaft. 

I was sneaking past the left wall in the elevator shaft, if that helps. 

I can not get on an take pictures atm, but I can later if needed. 

This Floor?  I checked for you and the volume on that floor is an "Attack" volume so they will come after you as soon as you enter it. 

Spoiler

 

[wolfbain5]

I stealth attack with a knife quite regularly even with only 2 points in it. I have to move slowly as to not make the stealth meter go above 30 most of the time. and muffled connectors even in cloth armor helps alot. you also dont have to be as close to them as you may think. sneak attack to the head kills even cops or soldiers. at times tho I still wake them up early or just cant get to the head because of positioning, but the multiplier is still good. I rely mostly on the bow tho for stealth. I only have a knife out when first entering small rooms or houses.

plus, with the knife as my main, I dont waste a slot on a separate melee weapon and still have an efficient butchering tool

 

[Hazitru]

Isn't the 4x4 the same speed as the motorcycle now?

It got buffed I believe but I feel like the motorcycle is still faster and has more control. 

 

[Blake_]

People underestimate zombie hearing. They detect you more by hearing than seeing. We do not have audio occlusion, so walls do not block sounds.

With zero light and maximum stealth perks, they will always see/hear at some minimum distance like 1m.

Audio Occlusion would be a HUGE stealth improvement, as it would outright solve insta-wake up problems between rooms and create an even more immersive experience.

Why don't you guys up the CPU requirements on the steam page for sanity and try to implement the system and polish it from there? We 2012's  pc users would whine less if the "2 core at 2.4ghz" minimum joke was realistic : less than 4 cores and this game can't be played on any resolution (yes, even on 640 x rockbottom pixels) with stable fps. I have 4c/8t at 3.9 and here I am having twinkie breaks every 15 seconds. Even with fixes, I doubt 2 cores are ever gonna be playable at less than 4.5GHz+ clock frequencies.

Be aware that 7dtd has at least 2 years to go and 2 generations of hardware to see before the final polished state. 

And then there's Unity. It supports the Eiffel Tower, Earth and Vulkan  .

 

[hiemfire]

This Floor?  I checked for you and the volume on that floor is an "Attack" volume so they will come after you as soon as you enter it. 

Spoiler

View attachment 14083

So it is a hard trigger and not just from making noise when you get off the ladder (which is the moment they aggro). Iirc the roof of that one is another one of those volumes.  (just cleared that place last night, was a fun clear for the most part) 

 

[Laz Man]

So it is a hard trigger and not just from making noise when you get off the ladder (which is the moment they aggro). Iirc the roof of that one is another one of those volumes.  (just cleared that place last night, was a fun clear for the most part) 

Correct.  Creamery workers must have great hearing.