PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[madmole]

Stamina use on shovels is probably the only one that's on the high side, the rest seem fine to me. Blunderbuss is great but other than a few crossbows I've had no bows drop at all in 14 days. Food is in a better spot than it was in 18 but animal spawns still feel too low right now.

Once you exit the primitive stage you'll see bows start spawning more. I've had at least 2 wooden bows spawn now, I'm on day 21 level 40 something.

@madmole I do agree with one point that they said, and that being that some canned foods only reward the player with +5 food. Perhaps those canned food types could provide the player with some hydration (ex. can of sardines), or perhaps boosting them up to +10 hunger gain would be a viable alternative?

Also, the costs of some of the canned foods are a bit inconsistent. Canned pears and canned peas provide the same stats, but the last time I checked, the latter (or was it the former?) costs a third of the price compared to the other.

Another possible option would be to make the Shamway Secret recipe a guaranteed drop from the Wall Manager's Safe in the Shamway Factory, if it isn't already. Perhaps a line of dialogue from Trader Rekt could hint at its existence, and he could even provide the player with a mini side quest to retrieve it, and he takes a copy of the secret recipe while you get to keep and read the other half. Starving players, especially new ones, could find this mission pretty lucrative.

Who crafts Sham? By the time you get that you have 12 cans of it in your box. Plus it dips into your rotten flesh stack which is more useful for real food farmed from farm plots. I don't think I've ever crafted Sham, and I don't typically go to food or drug POIs, I hunt and find/buy canned foods in regular POIs.

The cost will get fixed. I'm just not really keen on making any drastic changes, I really like the new food system.

 

[Frankencow]

That isn't an easy rebalance because I manually created the values and have a manual formula to decide the total calories when combined. So anything using a can that gives 25 would need rebalanced, and the cooked foods with cans are very OP already. THe easy thing to do is add some new can to the list and it has 25 calories, some kind of big can o slop thing. Like one of those gallon cans of baked beans.

But here we are, the first version of the game where food was ever an issue really. Should we ruin this in its infancy?

I feel like the food/stamina conversation is pretty much summarized by your statement in a post above that players simply need to forgo or be more purposeful with the stamina draining items until they have leveled up enough to use them.

Just because your MP friend gifted you a blue iron pickaxe when you joined the game doesn't mean it is the best choice for your player level. Same with trying to run to a quest wearing heavy armor--you found the heavy armor, doesn't automatically mean it is the right choice for you right away without the perks.

I like that there is more to decision making than automatically being great with an item just because you found it. Perhaps MP dynamics could use attention, but SP feels pretty spot on to me. 

 

[Gromit]

Once you exit the primitive stage you'll see bows start spawning more. I've had at least 2 wooden bows spawn now, I'm on day 21 level 40 something.

Personally I think it would be nice to see the primitive bows in the early loot though. I got a level 6 blunderbuss pretty early on which has been great but it's obviously not ideal for hunting. Wooden ones not appearing until this much later doesn't seem all that right to me. Either way it's better than 18.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Once you exit the primitive stage you'll see bows start spawning more. I've had at least 2 wooden bows spawn now, I'm on day 21 level 40 something.

Who crafts Sham? By the time you get that you have 12 cans of it in your box. Plus it dips into your rotten flesh stack which is more useful for real food farmed from farm plots. I don't think I've ever crafted Sham, and I don't typically go to food or drug POIs, I hunt and find/buy canned foods in regular POIs.

The cost will get fixed. I'm just not really keen on making any drastic changes, I really like the new food system.

True, but unless its counter intuitive, can't the player craft cans of sham to then craft sham chowder out of those cans of sham with some additional ingredients? Nonetheless, I respect your opinion on this one; I personally have never crafted sham either.

Good show.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

That is not a bad idea. I've been annoyed at how I spec into mining, shotguns and clubs and I'm pretty much crafting blue the first time I even try. That ability to craft blue so quickly pretty much kills a big chunk of progression.

I agree. Not to mention that this schematics idea enhances the reusability factor of those items, especially when playing with a group, which in turn, means more going out to loot.

 

[MechanicalLens]

I agree. Not to mention that this schematics idea enhances the reusability factor of those items, especially when playing with a group, which in turn, means more going out to loot.

I second this. Back in A18 the gun schematics were completely worthless since firearms were so common in loot even from day 1, and no one was going to craft a T1 AK-47 or a T1 pistol or whatever. Even in A19 they are mostly pointless since they require extremely specific circumstances for them to be useful. The player first has to find one of the gun schematics before they start finding firearms in loot (and assuming they don't buy the guns from the traders themselves), and then they have to find the weapon parts to craft it, along with a working workbench. The chances that they'll find the gun parts before that are pretty slim, since I find they really only begin to drop once you reach a certain gamestage above 10 or 11, and I don't think I'm wrong in assuming that TFP want you to be crafting guns before they start actually dropping anyway.

 

[meganoth]

That isn't a horrible idea. I'm sort of against it because having to find something is good, having a way to solve it easily with money doesn't really force the player to explore, hunt or loot. However the guys all tell me in MP they are starving early game so I can sympathize with some kind of solution, but in SP I'm always swimming in food once I'm past the first week.

Then soylent green could be a balancing solution as MP players can generate more money than a single player but also need more food sources than a single player (as they have to share food machines and wild life in an area)

 

[wolfbain5]

Again, it is a non issue if you prepare for mining with coffee, and a good meal helps too, as well as perks. Coffee is quite abundant in the coffee makers and seeds too, I have an endless supply now by day 21 and I spent a whole week working on my medieval tavern. I think people need to simply adapt instead of complain that it isn't right.

Steel uses more because it is a two handed item, and it has a double head, much heavier than the iron which has just the pick on one side and is still one handed. And for gaming reasons, it has the best block damage, so it needs to cost more. By the time you can get one (at least once trader quest rewards are fixed in a20) you should have enough stamina to manage it pretty well. By that I mean level 50+ and 3+ ranks sex rex.

yes, level 32  this is for iron.

with 2 of 4 from trex 3 in miner 69, 3 in mother load, 5 st, 2 in iron gut for slower food and drink loss due to exertion. and then red tea for slower hunger and thirst plus bacon and eggs. that not enough? which means more than 50% of the way perked into the skills

people on my server are all saying the same, newbs and continuing players

perks should make it standard going, food and drugs should make it gravy. basic character usage v's buffs, buffs are the cherry on the ice cream. sounds more like you are saying that buffs are to be the normal. cant word what not using buffs is to be without being too confrontational.

People are adapting. this is experimental and we are telling you this isnt tweaked enough.

 

[MechanicalLens]

Now is it just me, or does shooting a living animal with a shotgun no longer decimate the corpse of the animal? I've hunted a couple boars with a double barrel recently and I've lost no meat from either of them.

 

[wolfbain5]

Now is it just me, or does shooting a living animal with a shotgun no longer decimate the corpse of the animal? I've hunted a couple boars with a double barrel recently and I've lost no meat from either of them.

I have lost meat from a boar, blew his head off. wonder if harvest has ties with dismemberment

 

[madmole]

I feel like the food/stamina conversation is pretty much summarized by your statement in a post above that players simply need to forgo or be more purposeful with the stamina draining items until they have leveled up enough to use them.

Just because your MP friend gifted you a blue iron pickaxe when you joined the game doesn't mean it is the best choice for your player level. Same with trying to run to a quest wearing heavy armor--you found the heavy armor, doesn't automatically mean it is the right choice for you right away without the perks.

I like that there is more to decision making than automatically being great with an item just because you found it. Perhaps MP dynamics could use attention, but SP feels pretty spot on to me. 

Agreed, and I think the problem lies with people assuming it should play how it used to, etc. In normal play where you earn things in the normal way the progression feels just fine to me, in fact once you know the ropes, its pretty easy. And like I said, you can mine almost endlessly with a stone axe, so we aren't punishing new players, their friends are punishing them by gifting them gear they aren't ready for.

Personally I think it would be nice to see the primitive bows in the early loot though. I got a level 6 blunderbuss pretty early on which has been great but it's obviously not ideal for hunting. Wooden ones not appearing until this much later doesn't seem all that right to me. Either way it's better than 18.

Wooden bows are great. You might be thinking of primitive bows. Primitive bows drop all the time early game just like the blunderbuss. Wooden bows start dropping as soon as hunting rifles, aks, double barrels start to drop.

 

[Thecolours]

MM, when do you guys start adding in the main storyline? That's something I'm really looking forward to.  

 

[wolfbain5]

loot drops are pretty good imo. the stoneage lasts about 9 days in my mp games. food in mp games tho is rather low as finding enough to go around for more players isnt quite balanced yet. but primitive bows, wrenches, blunderbusses, stone tools, they drop really well. cant comment on higher level stuff yet as we are only at day 15. we finally just started getting 9mm to drop. iron tools I crafted. still raise levels fast as can be with being the base builder

in sp, day 15 as well as i just finished my day 14 horde, I bought a q1 ak, other than that. still in stone age. not bad honestly. better than I expected. food was an issue, but rngesus was never my friend.

 

[Gromit]

Wooden bows are great. You might be thinking of primitive bows. Primitive bows drop all the time early game just like the blunderbuss. Wooden bows start dropping as soon as hunting rifles, aks, double barrels start to drop.

No, I actually haven't had a primitive bow drop yet. If they're dropping for others just fine though it's just me being unlucky.

 

[bobross]

Agreed, and I think the problem lies with people assuming it should play how it used to, etc. In normal play where you earn things in the normal way the progression feels just fine to me, in fact once you know the ropes, its pretty easy. And like I said, you can mine almost endlessly with a stone axe, so we aren't punishing new players, their friends are punishing them by gifting them gear they aren't ready for.

I love ya Madmole, but sometimes I wonder. Do you really think I'd be in here saying early game A19 is too rough for newbies if the reasoning was they can't use the Blue Iron Pickaxe I found for them?

Our newb is our second miner. She had points in Miner 69er before I did and made the (orange) pickaxes we're currently using. She is angry and frustrated by the fact that she cannot use the tool she spent her first perk point to enable her to make worth a damn. She is frustrated that there is nothing saying "iron tool mining won't work unless you're overeating and drinking coffee" anywhere in the game. She accepts that I'm correct about it, but here we are very early Day 6 with nowhere near enough food for us to keep uniformly above the 50% hunger mark, and she can either "mine endlessly with a stone axe" and take 3+ times as long to break down a block, or she can take a 5 second pause after every block.

You want this game to bring in new players, then you need to make sure they can figure out how to play the game without coming to the forums. Right now, for mining, you are failing at that objective.

EDIT: 3 times as long was a pick from a hat, but it's close. 13 seconds vs. 29 seconds for iron pickaxe vs. stone axe. Except for the running out of stamina part, anyhow, that pushes it to 2 times as long.

 

[madmole]

MM, when do you guys start adding in the main storyline? That's something I'm really looking forward to.  

When its done. Sorry but I can't give timelines and educated guesses are historically late.

 

[Adam the Waster]

That's cool because 7 Days to Die and Alien Isolation are my two favorite games of all time.

Being a huge Alien fan, I upgraded my computer so I could play Alien Isolation with the best graphics (I pre-ordered the game on Steam before release).

After playing, and totally loving Alien Isolation, I started looking for another game to play; I stumbled on 7 Days to Die by looking through Steam games... The rest, as they say, is history.

Two very different games, but my two favorites for sure.

for some reason something tells me you like Aliens? i don't know why!

Wooden bows are great. You might be thinking of primitive bows. Primitive bows drop all the time early game just like the blunderbuss. Wooden bows start dropping as soon as hunting rifles, aks, double barrels start to drop.

i find the gears on that bow satisfying! but im still trying to find a ratchet! i invested 4 points in Salvage and i still don't have it unlocked (it says you can unlock that and the Impacted driver can be unlocked by perk!, i don't know if its a bug)  

 

[madmole]

I love ya Madmole, but sometimes I wonder. Do you really think I'd be in here saying early game A19 is too rough for newbies if the reasoning was they can't use the Blue Iron Pickaxe I found for them?

Our newb is our second miner. She had points in Miner 69er before I did and made the (orange) pickaxes we're currently using. She is angry and frustrated by the fact that she cannot use the tool she spent her first perk point to enable her to make worth a damn. She is frustrated that there is nothing saying "iron tool mining won't work unless you're overeating and drinking coffee" anywhere in the game. She accepts that I'm correct about it, but here we are very early Day 6 with nowhere near enough food for us to keep uniformly above the 50% hunger mark, and she can either "mine endlessly with a stone axe" and take 3+ times as long to break down a block, or she can take a 5 second pause after every block.

You want this game to bring in new players, then you need to make sure they can figure out how to play the game without coming to the forums. Right now, for mining, you are failing at that objective.

If you are mining on less than 50% food, then I have to question your priorities and actions. How hard is it to read the stats on items and notice the stamina, or stamina regen qualities they have and utilize them? Its like potions in skyrim it isn't rocket science. We're failing? You are failing to read and live by the laws of the game, which aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Why should you be able to mine endlessly with a heavy iron tool as a noob?

It is a time management game, and catching your breath can be better spend scrapping items, loading your iron in the forge, crafting logs for the forge etc. Instead of expecting the game to bend to your will, you need to bend to the laws of the game and make the best of it, it isn't as bad as you make it out to be, its quite nice and rewarding when you are finally mining endlessly with a steel axe, because you earned in using game mechanics. Make sure to spend more points on sex rex, drink your coffee, cook your high quality meals, level up some more, and use the ergo grip, etc etc there are 5000 ways to make mining easier, stop trying to change my  mind about something I tested 500 hours and is good already, instead spend 10 minutes learning how to work around the issue, its much more rewarding than arguing with me I assure you

 

 

[MechanicalLens]

If you are mining on less than 50% food, then I have to question your priorities and actions. How hard is it to read the stats on items and notice the stamina, or stamina regen qualities they have and utilize them? Its like potions in skyrim it isn't rocket science. We're failing? You are failing to read and live by the laws of the game, which aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Why should you be able to mine endlessly with a heavy iron tool as a noob?

It is a time management game, and catching your breath can be better spend scrapping items, loading your iron in the forge, crafting logs for the forge etc. Instead of expecting the game to bend to your will, you need to bend to the laws of the game and make the best of it, it isn't as bad as you make it out to be, its quite nice and rewarding when you are finally mining endlessly with a steel axe, because you earned in using game mechanics. Make sure to spend more points on sex rex, drink your coffee, cook your high quality meals, level up some more, and use the ergo grip, etc etc there are 5000 ways to make mining easier, stop trying to change my  mind about something I tested 500 hours and is good already, instead spend 10 minutes learning how to work around the issue, its much more rewarding than arguing with me I assure you

 

Speaking of changes, whose bright idea was it to add testosterone extract as part of the recipe for the cigar? I get that it probably needed a rarer crafting ingredient to help balance it out, but come on. Now that bears spawn exclusively at nighttime (and they're rare enough already; in A18 I often only saw bears 30-40 in-game days apart), the chance of me encountering one is basically zilch. Sure I could go hunting for one, but I don't have time for that. Luckily the trader was selling a cigar for 90 dukes because otherwise I would have been "locked out" on acquiring one. Note: this is more of a minor rant to get it out of my system with a small sprinkle of criticism, not me bellowing on your doorstep.

 

[madmole]

Speaking of changes, whose bright idea was it to add testosterone extract as part of the recipe for the cigar? I get that it probably needed a rarer crafting ingredient to help balance it out, but come on. Now that bears spawn exclusively at nighttime (and they're rare enough already; in A18 I often only saw bears 30-40 in-game days apart), the chance of me encountering one is basically zilch. Sure I could go hunting for one, but I don't have time for that. Luckily the trader was selling a cigar for 90 dukes because otherwise I would have been "locked out" on acquiring one. Note: this is more of a minor rant to get it out of my system with a small sprinkle of criticism, not me bellowing on your doorstep.

It is just TOO OP to not balance it. The fact is you can save 3 perks and have all the benefits of STR 10 with that one item, without actually being STR 10. Should raise the price of it too, now that crafting it is difficult.