PC Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[Aldranon]

What is "balanced" for one person is too easy for another and too hard for the third!

Everyone talking about what would be a balanced, challenging game like its something etched in stone are wrong if they think its universal.

This is why a "Factorio" style of game slider options could be ideal. No, 80 billion options are not necessary. But you, as a dev, have to ask: "What players do we want to exclude?"

 

[Gazz]

The difference between Steel and Military @ skill lvl 5 and improved fittingsarmor rating 16%

mobility 17.7%

Noise, not improved by specs: Military=50% Steel=100% only muffled fittings changes this so you're still 50% loud in light armor.

In my personal opinion these numbers are not a very good difference between light and heavy armor in the sense of choosing one over the other.

True, but if you look at the numbers that are in the game you'll see that (comparing with average rolls and best mods) with Steel : Mil armor you take 60% of the damage in steel and

noise +60% : +10%

stamina +17% : +0%

And it's a lot easier to mitigate even more damage in steel because the random variance is greater... but it will always be very bad for stealth purposes - even with the perks.

The full unicorn set of mil armor with best rolls still has worse protection than average steel armor but I played a (mostly) strength build with light armor and lots of sneaking around. It worked very well.

These armor types are not better or worse in absolute terms. They are better depending on the chosen play style.

 

[0ldman]

Strange, there are more and more ....

 

[Jay_ombie]

What is "balanced" for one person is too easy for another and too hard for the third!
Everyone talking about what would be a balanced, challenging game like its something etched in stone are wrong if they think its universal.

This is why a "Factorio" style of game slider options could be ideal. No, 80 billion options are not necessary. But you, as a dev, have to ask: "What players do we want to exclude?"

Exactly. Only way to trim a game for numerous playing styles is for the player to set up there own starting options.

I admit though I am one for as many options as possible to cover every possible thing an individual may be wanting to change. Can’t have enough options I’ll say.

 

[Guppys Fur]

Mr Mole and Team,

I got an Idea for the Auger.

How about removing the limit of Mod-installation of the same kind?

For Example: Adding 2x Bunker Buster would greatly improve use against stone, while at the same time costing me a Modslot that i could use for Gravedigger or Iron Breaker, thus enabling a Players to make a Choice and plan ahead.

Same would work for multiple Grave Digger or Iron Breaker Mods.

Grants a bigger Bonus, at the cost of overall efficiency

 

[Laz Man]

Strange, there are more and more ....
View attachment 30716

I wonder what % is that from the total...

Let's not forget all the SP, and non public coop games to factor in. Hopefully once TFPs add telemetry data they can see that info. More objectively...

 

[Blake_]

Some players (like me) view changing stuff like that mid game as cheating. For example, if I start a game on hard difficulty, I will only lower it, but never raise it back up again once i've lowered it. Just like some consider junk turrets to be exploiting/cheating if used outside of horde night. Example if used for poi clearing=exploit/cheating as they too good for a 0 int build, for how much of a joke they make the game even as a 0 int build, that knockdown they have is godly. I'd like to see the knockdown chance removed entirely, unless you have points in the turret syndrome perk, which it then adds some of it back, with the full amount being at 5/5 turret syndrome.

What I love about this game is that there are many options to suit everyone*.

*That said, allowing us to modify the settings midgame is indeed awful if we do not want to do it but might be compelled to. There should be an option for blocking any change on game start . Even by the very admin. A game is fun if there are rules. If in a hide and seek you start teleporting to your playmates or killing them on spot the game is not fun anymore.

I said it before and I will say it again. We must be allowed to block the rules of the game to anyone and everything forever if we so choose.

Self restraint has nothing to do with it and it was never about that. But then again, I understand my argument to be impossible to comprehend for US people maybe?, probably? due to inherent social and cultural reasons.

 

[Gazz]

I said it before and I will say it again. We must be allowed to block the rules of the game to anyone and everything forever if we so choose.

AFAIK, that is how it currently works.

Unless you have admin powers or are the one running the game. Then it's up to you.

 

[Blake_]

AFAIK, that is how it currently works.Unless you have admin powers or are the one running the game. Then it's up to you.

Why should it be? Admin should choose to be a player.

God can choose to be a human, but he will never be unless he rennounces his power and immortality. That's what Jesus is all about lol.

 

[Axebeard]

If settings were meant to be locked in once chosen they would be locked in once chosen. If you aren’t having fun and a provided setting change can restore that fun then....
@White-Gandalf you are 100% correct. I wasn’t saying your feedback wasn’t good.

I think they reason they aren't locked is more of an oversight than a feature.

 

[mathanielh]

Once you get a wrench and wrench any bed you will have springs to sell. I believe almost anything you can wrench will drop mech parts?

 

[betam4x]

the game needs a setting for the cost of the goods for the trader. This would be a logical continuation of the loot settings.For example, I want loot to be small, but the cost of the items found was high.

also need to add settings the RW gen. So that you can create a world without a trader. Many people would like to play without a trader.

So don't go to the trader? Also, the cost of the goods that the trader sells are already expensive. Everything is oriented towards endgame. Early to midgame, outside of small purchases, you won't be buying anything that you can't easily find/loot/craft yourself. Traders are also required for quests currently. No trader means few, if any of the in-game quests can be completed.

 

[betam4x]

Since you’re already at high gamestage why not turn xp earning up to 300% so you can keep leveling at an acceptable rate? Nobody wants to tell White Gandalf at level 100, “ You shall not pass!”

Even at 300% XP gain, leveling is far too slow currently. I've dumped a lot of hours into Alpha 18 (though admittedly with multiple games) and I've never surpassed level 100, and I don't even believe I've gotten to level 80, though I'd have to look. The current alpha (later on) is a sludge-fest and feels very grindy.

This also drastically hurts new players and the early game, because if you don't know where exactly to put your points early game, you are going to pay for it later when you realized you messed up. You may even have to start over. A game that is designed liked this needs to have a way to easily correct stuff like this. Only 1 in-game item can help with this, and it is very expensive to obtain. If leveling were a bit faster, all you'd have to do is grind a bit, grab a few more points, and start moving yourself on the correct path. The way it is currently, it can take up to 2 full hours to go up one level mid-game (depending on your actions, of course).

 

[betam4x]

Roughly anything that has about 100-200ish health with buckshot. Book shelves being the number 1 victim of being 1 shotted by stray shotgun pellets for me, with cabinets being a close second. Destroyed a few medical piles as well with a stray pellet or 2 multiple times as well. What usually happens is I unload a buckshot shell into a zombie at close range, but it doesn't take all 10 pellets to kill it, so the rest seem to just sort of phase thru the zombies body and hit whatever is behind it, which is useful if its another zombie, but annoying when its a bookshelf or something else as it'll most likely get destroyed. I got a solution though. Allow the player to convert the buckshot into a diff type of buckshot on the fly, that removes (or reduces it to 1 per pellet) the block damage, sort of like a toggle, but you have to do it with the ammo, can use the existing icon, and it'd just be a recipe and a item entry, a xml thing at most. Then again you'd have to add it to the shotgun's ammo selector, unsure how that process is. Have the looted/trader bought buckshot ammo just all be the normal ones. This way you got your block destroying buckshot, but now you have a option to convert to a type with 1 block dmg per pellet. Another solution is to just up the hp of certan lootables, namely, bookshelves and cabinets to be about 300, this way it'd prevent this I think.

The dangers of using such a weapon indoors. Although with the double barrel shotgun I rarely have this issue. However I'm quite a bit more picky about where I'm aiming when I shoot. I've even gone so far as to lure zombies outside before taking them out. Especially if there are a lot of them.

 

[-Holo-]

Whats up with the food/thirst system?

i'm getting the thirsty warning when I'm at 100 water now , it seems to rise by a few points every time I level up? why does leveling up increase how thirsty one gets? I get the extra points in water to gain the stamina, but why does the warning increase? that should warn at 50% at all levels.

And the hungersystem is as wonky as in A17. Needing to eat 4-5 full cans of food to get full from a half stomach? (from a tiny tiny can of catfood it would make sense, but not a whole beefcan)

On a related note, can someone direct me where to change this in the xmls? it's driving us nuts

 

[Tnasty68]

My only real issue with that is that shotguns with buckshot are frequently used in home defense scenarios expressly because they won't over-penetrate walls like a 5.56 or 7.62 can. Yes, I know fun gameplay trumps realism, but the damage to containers from an accidental shot or near-miss is actually a problem.
Could it be lowered at least on the standard ammo so that a point-blank shot where one block gets all pellets will still shatter it, but a stray pellet from a middle-distance shot won't wreck the chest you're working towards? That would keep from having to switch ammo but still alleviate the issue.

00 buckshot is far more likely to penetrate several interior walls than 5.56. I keep #4 in mine. 'over penetration' doesn't mean when you miss it means you hit your intended target and the round still has energy to go through one or more interior walls retaining energy to do harm to another person. 5.56 at close range tend to yaw and fragment.

7.62x39 or .308 yes both poor choices for close range defensive options.

from both a realism and fun perspective I like the fact if you have errant shots your crap gets broke. build a better base with a more secure loot room... keep your air locks closed to keep dem z's out of your goodies.

 

[meganoth]

Why should it be? Admin should choose to be a player.
God can choose to be a human, but he will never be unless he rennounces his power and immortality. That's what Jesus is all about lol.

If God's power is unlimited, he can overcome any limit he puts up to himself (including the inherent paradox). So all he can do is choose to not use his power.

Just like an admin can. :fat:

Seriously it is very hard to limit the power of a server admin. As a last resort the admin can always manipulate the save game on disk. You might make it more difficult for the admin by checksumming, encrypting and/or cryptographically signing the save game, with lots of significant disadvantages. And he still could circumvent that unless steam or FTP manages all the keys from a central server.

 

[agrastiOs]

If God's power is unlimited, he can overcome any limit he puts up to himself (including the inherent paradox). So all he can do is choose to not use his power.
Just like an admin can. :fat:

Seriously it is very hard to limit the power of a server admin. As a last resort the admin can always manipulate the save game on disk. You might make it more difficult for the admin by checksumming, encrypting and/or cryptographically signing the save game, with lots of significant disadvantages. And he still could circumvent that unless steam or FTP manages all the keys from a central server.

Not rocket science to have a cheat mode, though.

 

[Onarr]

Glad you like it!
We've talked about needing oxygen mining deep, but I'm not sure we need to make mining more complex. At later game its kind of a big time sink getting the ammo you need and I can't see any good reason to add complexity/risk to it.

Once we get town masks in they can respawn every day and have denser populations than the wild, right now its all one big setting for the entire biome.

I think mining needs some love in order to be fun. Incentives to build mines in certain way, hazards, minigames, way to search for diamond/gold/silver etc. It might be interesting to spawn more varied deposits, so it isnt essentially big square, but you follow different branches, that can hold some dangers, or treasures.

 

[Blake_]

If God's power is unlimited, he can overcome any limit he puts up to himself (including the inherent paradox). So all he can do is choose to not use his power.
Just like an admin can. :fat:

Seriously it is very hard to limit the power of a server admin. As a last resort the admin can always manipulate the save game on disk. You might make it more difficult for the admin by checksumming, encrypting and/or cryptographically signing the save game, with lots of significant disadvantages. And he still could circumvent that unless steam or FTP manages all the keys from a central server.

Not like that. I meant only block access to new game options in the *continue game* options and also block the console in game for the admin if said admin so chooses in the new game options.

In essence all I'm asking is for a couple of new options in the lines of :

-Lock game options on new world start Yes/No (default).

-Console: Admin only(default) / everybody

Not having them is a balance issue by itself and of course also prevents a fair Pvp in the future. Hell, it even prevents a fun Pve in some cases.