PC Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

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Loot respawns off? We finish before anything respawns in 30 days.


We loot town after town, and find more than enough food.

Harder difficulty = need food for hp and stamina and you use canned good to make better food with buffs.

In previous Alphas making meat stew had a reason, you said it. Get Wellness up. It no longer has a reason. It actually has a negative, you get food poison.

It was a stupid reason, and wellness was even more dumb. You don't GET food poison upon consumption, it's a low percentage. Negated by vitamins and/or a perk.

Craft better than you can find??? You can't craft higher than T5. You can find T6. Crafting Dead!!!




You don't automatically get the best T5. There are random stats and a T3 or 4 can be better than a T5. Obviously you missed where I said there are various traps, mods, armor, blocks to craft that you need.

You won't be creating cheap base with high game stage??? What we're supposed to invest tons of hours so they can knock it down in seconds?

Obviously you're not implemented my last statement on crafting if your bases are knocked down in seconds (nor building well. Adapt). I built a small base with a few traps and non-cheese, mainly spikes the traps and walls. Lasted about 18 days with 10-min 24 hour cycles bloodmoon every night on Insane difficulty, gamestage 300 - 400. I didn't leave the base, I crafted (crafting not dead) supplies in base between horde nights.

Yes we can make it harder with settings and we do. I was commenting on the default. Changing the difficulty won't make the basic game mechanics different. It will still be boring AF zombie shooter, not the amazingly different thing it used to be.

You said you play on default and found these issues, now you're playing on harder settings but on default settings? The game may not be perfectly balanced, and more end game stuff is coming, but you seem to hate change and not willing to adapt. There are plenty of ways to make the game interesting, but if you want to treat it like the dull and boring A16, then that's what you'll get lol. Adapt, don't hate change.

 
So you effectively cheesed half the community into buying a voxel game which you progressively turn into a fortnite/pubg/rust clone ? You think the gamers will accept a game they paid to turn into a completely different genre?
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'Seriously? A fortnite/pubg/rust clone? Whatever you're smoking, stop.

 
What we're supposed to invest tons of hours so they can knock it down in seconds?
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the three little pigs each built 3 separate houses, the first little pig made his out of hay, and the wolf blew it down, the second little pig thought he was smarter, and he built his out of sticks and stones, but alas, the wolf also blew that one down, the 3rd little pig however made his out of bricks, and he invited his 2 brothers over, no matter how hard the wolf blew, he could not blow this house down, so he instead crawled down the chimney, being full of soot, he slipped and fell on a sauce bottle, he later found himself in the x-ray clinic having to explain himself to an unconvinced nurse.

 
I know how random stats are supposed to work. You said that generally speaking, the best random tier 1 will be the same as a tier 3 (yellow) or even a tier 4 (green) mid stats.
Well. I need to test it a bit more. but armor is FULLY random, and that is confirmed and (I hope) a big fat bug. Tier 1 leather armor can have better defense than tier 6.

And that, my friend, sucks. There ought to be a range per quality in everything, so they are consistent.

Example :

Tier 1 leather : 7- 10 defense

Tier 2 leather : 8- 11 defense

Tier 3 leather : 9- 12 defense

Tier 4 leather : 10- 13 defense

Tier 5 leather : 11- 14 defense

Tier 6 leather : 12- 15 defense

Tier 1 2 3 4 5 6: 8-15 defense (not the real values, I think leather only goes up to 13, but you get the point)

(needs further testing, but that is based on about a hundred pieces of leather and iron armor)

Your current Random is random results in the same crap that when mods were the only thing that improved weapons, because you have exactly the same system, just 4 times the stuff.
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Armor is the one exception, we didn't want brown armor to be completely useless so there isn't enough range there to implement a better defense rating per quality level. So it is possible to get a brown armor that is better AR than a purple one, the purple one would still be way better because of durability and 4 mods installed.

Current:

 
What you said doesn't make much sense to me.
Loot respawns off? We finish before anything respawns in 30 days.

We loot town after town, and find more than enough food.

In previous Alphas making meat stew had a reason, you said it. Get Wellness up. It no longer has a reason. It actually has a negative, you get food poison.

Craft better than you can find??? You can't craft higher than T5. You can find T6. Crafting Dead!!!

You won't be creating cheap base with high game stage??? What we're supposed to invest tons of hours so they can knock it down in seconds?

Yes we can make it harder with settings and we do. I was commenting on the default. Changing the difficulty won't make the basic game mechanics different. It will still be boring AF zombie shooter, not the amazingly different thing it used to be.
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Its too easy and boring yet they knock down your base? Sounds like a contradiction. Its taken me until noon to repair my base on the next day is that too tedious for you? What was so amazing in the past? Was spam eating stew fun? Why are you scared of food poisoning? I've got 500 hours in and puked 5 times, that is no reason to stop eating cooked food. Buy the iron gut perk if you are so scared of food poisoning.

We're working on making crafting a little more relevant.

I disagree about the 4x4/gyro they are both superior to the motorcycle. The 4x4 has massive storage and can take passengers and the gyro is way faster flat speed, not to mention you can go cross country and not be slowed by hills.

 
I don't know if there would be a way to balance out the punishment of not focusing on a skill tree early-mid game. Punishment in the sense that I feel gimped/ less effective. For example fortitude and heavy armor, if I don't focus on getting those skill points into heavy armor, the stamina punishment from using it definitely makes it challenging.

 
Its too easy and boring yet they knock down your base? Sounds like a contradiction. Its taken me until noon to repair my base on the next day is that too tedious for you? What was so amazing in the past?
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Not everybody plays the game because of the horde night cycle. Some play it despite the horde night cycle. Looting, crafting, making an appealing looking homestead, fighting zombies in POI's...there used to be a less horde-night focus that was quite enjoyable. Now it's a lot more focused on that one feature (and the prep for it, and recovery from it) to the point the other aspects have taken a back seat. On a bus. The new ability to turn horde night off or make it infrequent doesn't help that the other aspects are weakened.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like and a lot to do, but we're trying to note in the balance thread that we feel an imbalance. That's all we're saying. We're trying to be helpful.

 
Its too easy and boring yet they knock down your base? Sounds like a contradiction. Its taken me until noon to repair my base on the next day is that too tedious for you? What was so amazing in the past? Was spam eating stew fun? Why are you scared of food poisoning? I've got 500 hours in and puked 5 times, that is no reason to stop eating cooked food. Buy the iron gut perk if you are so scared of food poisoning.
We're working on making crafting a little more relevant.

I disagree about the 4x4/gyro they are both superior to the motorcycle. The 4x4 has massive storage and can take passengers and the gyro is way faster flat speed, not to mention you can go cross country and not be slowed by hills.
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What I find Boring is the game play style. I enjoyed your earlier vision of Minecraft for Adults more.

Why should I invest time into building a base for them to knock down? It's much easier to build a cheap 3x3x5 with some blade traps and spikes. I don't feel the need to expose my loot to the horde.

I'm not afraid of food poison. I just don't see the need to craft food. I can find enough canned food. Why would I want to craft imperfect food if I find enough perfect food? There is no reason to craft food. I can't find a reason to craft anything other than ammo and the occasional mod. I find everything usually long before I can craft it. Why go through the trouble.

The 4x4 should be faster than the motorcycle or at least the same speed. Two of us play together. We can ride together in the truck or go separate on motorcycles. If we go separate we get there faster. Faster is better.

This isn't meant as an attack on you or your game. I love this game, it's why I took the time to write here. Steam says I have 2700 hours playing. This is meant as constructive criticism, and my opinion relating to the things I like. In a thread that was titled Feedback and Balancing. Just giving mine and my wife's feedback.

Thank you for all of the work you have put in to give us so much enjoyment for so little cost. We truly love your game. With mods it can be anything we want it to be so take our feedback with a grain of salt.

 
I think you two missed the whole "build and defend your home against the zombie hordes" part of the main description of the game. Stop worrying about repairing your base/your loot, it's part of the game and look from another perspective and you'll enjoy it much more.

 
Not everybody plays the game because of the horde night cycle. Some play it despite the horde night cycle. Looting, crafting, making an appealing looking homestead, fighting zombies in POI's...there used to be a less horde-night focus that was quite enjoyable. Now it's a lot more focused on that one feature (and the prep for it, and recovery from it) to the point the other aspects have taken a back seat. On a bus. The new ability to turn horde night off or make it infrequent doesn't help that the other aspects are weakened.
Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like and a lot to do, but we're trying to note in the balance thread that we feel an imbalance. That's all we're saying. We're trying to be helpful.
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Oh comeon... on the 7th day just run into a random POI and knock out the staircase, or jump into a vehicle and cheese it.... if you wanna cheese it...

 
Was the horde night/gamestage difficulty changed? We just did our night 28 horde night on a dedicated with 2 other players and I don't ever recall seeing so many irradiated feral zombies on a day 28. Our groups collective gamestage was I think in the 400's (3 of us) we're only level 25 to 35ish with the new perk/skill system we don't have the kind of skills/equipment to stand up to that kind of horde yet. I hate to be one of those people who say "the game is to hard now" but... the horde night is quite impossible without cheezing the AI which we refuse to do in our builds.

is there something we're missing here?

 
Was the horde night/gamestage difficulty changed? We just did our night 28 horde night on a dedicated with 2 other players and I don't ever recall seeing so many irradiated feral zombies on a day 28. Our groups collective gamestage was I think in the 400's (3 of us) we're only level 25 to 35ish with the new perk/skill system we don't have the kind of skills/equipment to stand up to that kind of horde yet. I hate to be one of those people who say "the game is to hard now" but... the horde night is quite impossible without cheezing the AI which we refuse to do in our builds.
is there something we're missing here?
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Not impossible and you don't have to cheese AI. Lower difficulty by one / lower horde spawn by one drop until you recoup if you rly need. Build square walls 4 high, put bars up top, shoot from up top downward. Utilize spikes, electric fensing / other traps to help. You can do it with some adapation :)

 
Was the horde night/gamestage difficulty changed? We just did our night 28 horde night on a dedicated with 2 other players and I don't ever recall seeing so many irradiated feral zombies on a day 28. Our groups collective gamestage was I think in the 400's (3 of us) we're only level 25 to 35ish with the new perk/skill system we don't have the kind of skills/equipment to stand up to that kind of horde yet. I hate to be one of those people who say "the game is to hard now" but... the horde night is quite impossible without cheezing the AI which we refuse to do in our builds.
is there something we're missing here?
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You forgot to mention your difficulty setting. I know it's not the same but in SP, default difficulty, lvl 32, gs 70, I got cops for the first time on my day 28 horde. No radiated yet.

 
Not everybody plays the game because of the horde night cycle. Some play it despite the horde night cycle. Looting, crafting, making an appealing looking homestead, fighting zombies in POI's...there used to be a less horde-night focus that was quite enjoyable. Now it's a lot more focused on that one feature (and the prep for it, and recovery from it) to the point the other aspects have taken a back seat. On a bus. The new ability to turn horde night off or make it infrequent doesn't help that the other aspects are weakened.
Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like and a lot to do, but we're trying to note in the balance thread that we feel an imbalance. That's all we're saying. We're trying to be helpful.
Click to expand...
How is it a game with choice has forced things which have been bolstered to take a back seat?

New shape blocks: You can easily use more shapes now than ever, promoting better looking bases. Some people have said they never built more than a square block base before, now they are getting into architecture! I myself have found a reason to play past day 28-35 and have been building interesting bases. How is base building diminished? If anything I think its needed now, before you could sit on a bar with a wooden frame in the doorway and they were too stupid to get to you. Now there is a strong desire to build a strong base.

What has been weakened? Crafting was stupid OP in 17, but I'm still crafting tools, pockets for clothing, food, farm plots, some armor, and vehicles and traps. Lots of ammo, mods, too. That is a lot to craft IMO.

 
What I find Boring is the game play style. I enjoyed your earlier vision of Minecraft for Adults more.
Why should I invest time into building a base for them to knock down? It's much easier to build a cheap 3x3x5 with some blade traps and spikes. I don't feel the need to expose my loot to the horde.

I'm not afraid of food poison. I just don't see the need to craft food. I can find enough canned food. Why would I want to craft imperfect food if I find enough perfect food? There is no reason to craft food. I can't find a reason to craft anything other than ammo and the occasional mod. I find everything usually long before I can craft it. Why go through the trouble.

The 4x4 should be faster than the motorcycle or at least the same speed. Two of us play together. We can ride together in the truck or go separate on motorcycles. If we go separate we get there faster. Faster is better.

This isn't meant as an attack on you or your game. I love this game, it's why I took the time to write here. Steam says I have 2700 hours playing. This is meant as constructive criticism, and my opinion relating to the things I like. In a thread that was titled Feedback and Balancing. Just giving mine and my wife's feedback.

Thank you for all of the work you have put in to give us so much enjoyment for so little cost. We truly love your game. With mods it can be anything we want it to be so take our feedback with a grain of salt.
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I'm glad you love the game, you made it sound like we ruined it for you or something.

I build a base for the enjoyment of it. I want a place to hang my hat. If its built right zombies can't knock it down unless you go afk for 5 hours. I hate building in POIs they are usually too big and require more work in the long run to get acceptable.

Well there is the cost of food, and the simplicity of eating one high calorie meal versus spamming down 15 calorie cans at best. To me its about efficiency and slots, I don't usually have 10 cans of chili, but a can of peas, a can of this and that and it takes up more room than its worth. I try to save it until it is a stack of 10, but I don't typically get there, I eat it. I also like cooked food despite the chance to get poisoning because it heals you a lot. Its a good bandage so to speak.

We could make the 4x4 as fast. I thought it was a choice though... do I want a little faster and less space and mileage, or more space a little slower and worse mileage? To me the 4x4 is better all around if you can afford the fuel.

 
Was the horde night/gamestage difficulty changed? We just did our night 28 horde night on a dedicated with 2 other players and I don't ever recall seeing so many irradiated feral zombies on a day 28. Our groups collective gamestage was I think in the 400's (3 of us) we're only level 25 to 35ish with the new perk/skill system we don't have the kind of skills/equipment to stand up to that kind of horde yet. I hate to be one of those people who say "the game is to hard now" but... the horde night is quite impossible without cheezing the AI which we refuse to do in our builds.
is there something we're missing here?
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Its easier than before actually, less radiated spawn. However gs 400 is somehow crazy late game and you would be getting nasty zombies by then for sure. I can't see you guys getting GS 400 with 3 level 25-35 people, but gazz could answer better to that.

 
The 4x4 should be faster than the motorcycle or at least the same speed. Two of us play together. We can ride together in the truck or go separate on motorcycles. If we go separate we get there faster. Faster is better.
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I DO agree about this. The 4x4 already has navigation limits because of it's width, and using a ton more gas AND going so much slower makes it feels unsatisfying.

I started packing it up, driving the motorcycle to locations, and then unpacking it for the storage and journey home, which is a bit of a workaround, but seems like a waste. If its not adjusted by the final a18 stable, I'll just mod its speeds to at least match the motorcycle.

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Was the horde night/gamestage difficulty changed? We just did our night 28 horde night on a dedicated with 2 other players and I don't ever recall seeing so many irradiated feral zombies on a day 28. Our groups collective gamestage was I think in the 400's (3 of us) we're only level 25 to 35ish with the new perk/skill system we don't have the kind of skills/equipment to stand up to that kind of horde yet. I hate to be one of those people who say "the game is to hard now" but... the horde night is quite impossible without cheezing the AI which we refuse to do in our builds.
is there something we're missing here?
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The game is more balanced for sp right now. IMHO the mp multiplier is twice as high as it should be. I suggested a game setting slider with a lower setting (or two) vanilla and a higher setting.

 
How is it a game with choice has forced things which have been bolstered to take a back seat?
New shape blocks: You can easily use more shapes now than ever, promoting better looking bases. Some people have said they never built more than a square block base before, now they are getting into architecture! I myself have found a reason to play past day 28-35 and have been building interesting bases. How is base building diminished? If anything I think its needed now, before you could sit on a bar with a wooden frame in the doorway and they were too stupid to get to you. Now there is a strong desire to build a strong base.

What has been weakened? Crafting was stupid OP in 17, but I'm still crafting tools, pockets for clothing, food, farm plots, some armor, and vehicles and traps. Lots of ammo, mods, too. That is a lot to craft IMO.
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The difficult part is "crafting" can mean so many different things. Person #1 vision of crafting is realistic combination of parts (e.g. sharp sticks). Person #2 vision of crafting is creating huge bases that can withstand any horde. Person #3 vision of crafting is being able to construct everything from raw materials. Person # 4 vision of crafting is being able to make the best items in the game......and so on and so on....

 
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