PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  • A18 Stable is Out!

    Votes: 2 66.7%

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    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Total voters
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Stole is not the correct word for it. But I agree with you 100% the same principle can be used to Bandits, Bandits in a post-apocalypse game are a must have, I know a couple of modders that added Bandits in their mod, so I guess that (following blenna13's line of thought) TFP are stealing the Bandits from those mods....b*tch please...
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All this nonsense is just players who know nothing about modding. I'm not even blaming them. They simply don't know better.

Bandits had been in the Kickstarter pitch 2013. Their context has changed a few times (just a normal workday in game development) but they have always been on the map.

There simply are not any design discussions happening (that I'm aware of) about which mod has what feature that TFP should steal next. There are way more wishlist items on the list than there is time to implement them and modders will take all they can get and run with it. That's just the way it goes. =)

 
Look at it this way, if Madmole decided that he needed to mod Fallout 76 in order to make it playable for his own sensibilities and he posted on the official forum for that game, he would not have the same authority as the developers for Fallout 76 even though he is a developer for this game. Sure they could meet up at E3 and talk shop about developing in general and swap stories and cautionary tales, but on the topic of Fallout 76 they would be developers and he would just be a modder.
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But we're not looking for authority. We're looking to have constructive discussions; yet there mostly ain't none because after 3 posts of the same subject, madmole gets defensive and one (or several) of the following things happen :

- he becomes condescending, implying that we're not CEOs of big companies and thus can't even try to argue with him on selected game design decisions. Guess what, I'm no baker but I know when the bread I buy isn't good.

- he invokes false / bad faith arguments, like "your memory is deceptive, you would clear the town once and it would be free for 4 days"... well, like someone stated, instant respawns in the cities avoided that cheese. Pretty funny that the main argument is bad memory when you don't remember the core of how cities used to work back then.

- the subject becomes offtopic

Just because we're not professionnal game designers doesn't mean we can't spot something fishy. Regarding the spear throw/pickup on point blank range, I even stated I wasn't talking balance but purely animations/mechanics. "It might look cheesy, but this is your TIER 3 QUALITY 6 MODDED spear we are talking about." was the counter-argument, but that doesn't even scratch the surface of the problem. I'm not talking damage, i'm talking visuals. It could have been a T1Q1 spear, the mechanics are the same.

I'm not offended by the way, I understand he knows more things than we do regarding roadmap and stuff, but let's not forget history either. Back when A17 came out the community came back with a lot of gripes regarding the shift of gameplay towards perk-management instead of looting, and it was the same condescending attitude back then. "You're stuck in the past, this is so much better, yada yada". 6 months forward the guy in charge back then got fired and most of the current alpha is about fixing what was lacking in the previous one.

Welp, nothing left to do but wait for A18 now. I only hope feedback and discussions will be encouraged and not dismissed with another "our job is to design games, we know better" kind of line.

 
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Wakes up... Catches up... Wow okay... My last post on the subject...

99% of my comments come from a player perspective, not a modder one. And that's a misnomer anyway, it should be "someone who has played mods", not modder.

My desire for zombies in the wild comes from two places, first and foremost as a player, not a mod user... it was awesome in earlier builds AND is currently something I have modded in, because as a *player*, 99% of my desire is due to having zombies where I'm at. Which is NOT in a poi.

The second place is the aforementioned modded in part, where despite having high street counts, I've still never run out the zombie maxAlive so my pois are not empty, and I've still never pushed the game past what a blood moon does so my performance doesn't hurt... So from *this* perspective, the reasons he's given for less zombies in the wild don't play out, which is why I argue.

MM hasn't played mods, so has not experienced sleeper volumes with high biome counts. He HAS said he's tweaked the respawn speed so he *is* listening, which is fantastic and all I really ask for. I don't expect devs to bend the knee. :)

I'm still very hopeful that the encounter system will compensate for the remainder, but I'm an inquisitive person, sue me, so I like to poke at things with a stick and see what happens.

I will say that there is a certain dev who once told me it's foolish to fight them inside a base in close quarters when you could fight them outside, on an open field, which is why I make holes in pois and let them conga line out... it's just more efficient. :)

With regard to tires, it's definitely a 50/50 split; it's weird as a player and I've modded better.

But in *no way* do I consider myself on the same level as devs; I barely consider myself a modder. I don't have to cater to potatoes like they do, and in fact a common motto of mine when modding is "frack a potato, they should upgrade".

But as a player, hell yeh I'm gonna argue for what is fun in the game, and modding has simply allowed me to experience more things, and THAT is the edge people who play mods have. We have more experience playing with different ideas, it's not just on a spreadsheet for us.

I've tried rager zombies. Love em. Picking up lights, love that too. Zombies chasing you IN a building instead of out of one, love that the most!

...but no, I'm not a developer and don't pretend to be.

As far as the personal level stuff goes, I'm confident that if Joel and I were to meet, we'd be besties, because he'd then be able to see the grin on my face and we'd find common ground, so any little snips here and there between us to me, distinguish him as a better dev than one who just ignores players. So I ain't bothered, and am in fact, honored.

Thanks for your time. :)

 
All this nonsense is just players who know nothing about modding. I'm not even blaming them. They simply don't know better.
Bandits had been in the Kickstarter pitch 2013. Their context has changed a few times (just a normal workday in game development) but they have always been on the map.

There simply are not any design discussions happening (that I'm aware of) about which mod has what feature that TFP should steal next. There are way more wishlist items on the list than there is time to implement them and modders will take all they can get and run with it. That's just the way it goes. =)
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if i could do a kickstarter i would but im too broke lol

plus some of my ideas probably wouldn't be possible lol

and about the bandits

im mixed about . on one hand they could add some more challenge and make the wasteland of 7dtd no so lifeless

but on the other( unless they put a ton of work in which they probably would) they could have just lazer pinpoint aim. and they would just run at you like a wild animal.

but i think that TFP will do a good job

 
Biggest problem is, is that TFP are always miles ahead in development. Not only technical progress but also roadmap descisions. With your suggestion it would mean modders would have to be on the same level of access to those things as the devs are. Which would only be possible if they would be devs of the game themselves. You cant advise on things you have tried to implement on an always n-x version behind. Just impossible. I thinks theres where the sometimes harsch cut-offs come from when modders (or mainly users of their mods) keep nagging about things they have done and want to see in vanilla game while the game code has advanced next level allready and descisions have been made regarding gamedesign visions.
Cheers
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They are not always miles ahead, a lot of systems stay pretty much the same throughout alphas. What appear as big changes to the public sometimes are just alterations to xml files. Just take the example of the farm boxes we are getting, barring the dirt texture I probably can reproduce the entire system in A17 since it is mostly an xml change and a new paintable shape.

But sure they are ahead on the code base, roadmap, planning of features, I will not deny that and will make it much harder to talk about the same stuff. But that does not mean every idea or discussion should automatically be dismissed either.

But yeah it is mostly the users of mods that always seem to bring it up in a discussion. I done a lot of modding on this game and throughout alphas made tweaks and changes that subsequently were added by the Devs. The fact I also did those changes just means that it probably was a logical route to take or they were already planning to do so but did not get around to it yet.

 
Lol. I thought you would go with Uruguayan Football? ;)
- - - Updated - - -

Same hemisphere man. Sounds valid.
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OI! that's not nice, don't trigger me with football, you can get f***d up for saying that in Uruguay lol. Pd: We export some of the best football players the world has ever seen, being 3 million people. Do the math.

EDIT: I'M SO ♥♥♥♥ING TRIGGERED ♥♥♥♥ YOU DaVEGA. (I love you)

 
OI! that's not nice, don't trigger me with football, you can get f***d up for saying that in Uruguay lol. Pd: We export some of the best football players the world has ever seen, being 3 million people. Do the math.
EDIT: I'M SO ♥♥♥♥ING TRIGGERED ♥♥♥♥ YOU DaVEGA. (I love you)
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...are y'all talking about soccer?

/Triggering the rest of the world since 1971

 
I never said they didn’t need to worry about those things. I said they don’t need to worry about those things to the same standard/level as the devs. I also gave the answer to why: the public is more forgiving and expectations are not as high for mods especially at this stage of the game. My mod for xp is very unpolished and appears hacked on but all I got were compliments from those who liked the change to the game. If TFP put out what I did they would be hugely criticized. Look at all the criticism they get for existing content where animation isn’t good or graphical glitches exist. Let’s say that TFP stuck to their original plan and smooth terrain was going in last but some modder was able to do it first for people to try while waiting for TFP to come around. Would the modder get criticized to the degree TFP does for the divot between terrain and crafted blocks? I seriously doubt it. Mostly people would be glad to be able to try it out while at least one player would then accuse TFP of stealing smooth terrain from modders when they finally got around to doing it....
These are facts born out by history and not a dig against modders. Mods do not have to attain to the same standard of quality in order to be accepted and loved by the community that wants them. Don’t look for offense where none is being given.
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I think this is also a matter of exposure. I am sure Jax and Khaine take a lot more flak on their mods if something is off, unbalanced or not working/looking right than I am getting for my mod or you are for yours. Compared to the core game it probably is even more off, I am not sure how much people play modded but likely it is but a fraction of the total player base and by the time they get there are used to the quirkiness of the alpha gameplay.

But yeah they have a lot more to worry about and there is a lot more at stake for them, agreed.

 
Especially when it comes to facilitating players. I understand the developers are making their game, but it isn't for them. It's for us. They are developing a product and it's aimed at a market.
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I respectfully disagree.

Step 1: Devs make game they consider fun.

Step 2: It goes to the market.

Step 3: We buy it because we consider its fun.

We have to be great-full that they open the doors, so we can see behind the scenes and tell them our opinion on things.

You can't go to a writer when he's writing a book and tell them the book is for you and he should listen to you. (same with a musician, or a movie director)

 
I respectfully disagree. Step 1: Devs make game they consider fun.

Step 2: It goes to the market.

Step 3: We buy it because we consider its fun.

We have to be great-full that they open the doors, so we can see behind the scenes and tell them our opinion on things.

You can't go to a writer when he's writing a book and tell them the book is for you and he should listen to you. (same with a musician, or a movie director)
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yeah im very thankful and i love this game. theres some things that bug me but thats every game and there small this is one of my favorite games cuz i can chill out play , scavenge and kill some zombies.

 
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No need to be rude, I know I wasnt and neither was MM in his responses. Not all modders are nerds. And I think MM definitely breaks the stereotype of a typical dev. Labels suck, so stop using them.
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I am an alpha nerd lol.

 
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