PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

I will concede the point to you re: where do the choices end and I will agree that the choices are what require discussion. But this isn't just random stuff, or microtweaks.
What I was referring to are features that have been/ may be added - big ones that really change how the game plays. Zombies digging was one of those huge changes. And it's divisive.

I think a large part of why digging was added was because of a certain bunch of people who cried because they couldn't find their enemies in multiplayer games who had built bunker bases, and wanted to force then out onto the surface.

Having the choice to build underground without having the landscape turned into swiss cheese was already there. Those who wanted brutal combat, raids, and hordes had it. Those who wanted all that and a safe deep underground retreat also had that. Those who wanted neither, or both also had their way.

But it all had to be removed because those who don't want underground building without the cheesemaker zombies complained enough to instigate bringing digging into the game.

I do have a question though, specifically for you, Roland. A genuine question too, re: toggling digging. If Faatal said the option may be added post gold then why didn't they wait until the option was viable before throwing it in?

Perhaps if it is made as an option it could go in with zombie types for the game instance (if ever they were added.)

By the way I wrote my previous comments with very little sleep

We fixed digging zombies. They were digging for a long time, then broke for a long time.

I hated several things about A16: You could go to a rooftop and be completely safe with no investment, and b, you could dig down 3 meters and put a dirt blob over your head and also be completely safe. If I know that there is a super easy way to cheese the horde, suddenly I start building castles and when that fun runs out I just quit.

Now there is a constant urgency like in all time management games, and this is the best change in years.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

Even though you log out, you will leave a scent for zombies, who will occasionally try to find the source of the smell. They would dig, destroy, pillage to find the source of that delicious smell of fresh meat.

The only issue I see with your idea is that a player must be within a chunk in order for it to load and basically be live. If no player is present that chunk will not be loaded in thus 0 activity in unloaded chunks.

- - - Updated - - -

Now there is a constant urgency like in all time management games, and this is the best change in years.

I agree. Digging zombies was one of my top 3 changes I loved in A17. I missed digging zombies and dreamed of the day they return. Then came the good news that diging had been fixed for A17.

 

[madmole]

That's a perfectly legitimate way of working with what you have.
I think something people don't see is the kind of work it takes to actually build a good living space deep underground - especially on single player.

Players aren't free of danger either. They may be free from the Cheesemakers (I'm having my term for zombie diggers copyrighted ) but they most certainly aren't free from dehydration (unless you have a crap ton of snow). And then there are tools and repair costs for going so far underground, and having screamers spawning above you (if you have generate enough heat) meaning a confrontation is likely inevitable. Then there's starvation.

Unless of course you have a farm above you, players are forced to go looting for food or hunting animals - which comes with its own dangers.

Materials for building the guns? Furniture? It all has to come from somewhere and that somewhere isn't underground.

I suppose my point is that having the Cheesemakers off mean't that people had their choices and that each choice comes with it's own limitations and punishments. Oh well, I really hope Faatal does get a chance to reevaluate this in the future.

I mentioned in a previous post that if you had a horde base, your underground base would be safe. I didn't think of screamers investigating heat from forges, in that case they probably still dig. You would need to make a forge base somewhere else for your underground bunker to be completely safe, or set turrets above ground to kill anything that comes by. I almost always did an off site forging base for a lot of years, but now I enjoy the screamers, free xp farm if I'm in the mood, otherwise I pop her with one shot before she screams.

 

[madmole]

PvPers will be happy to know that such a major change was made just to appease them. Mostly I see them say, "TFP give no ♥♥♥♥s about us."

PVP had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Snif]

The only issue I see with your idea is that a player must be within a chunk in order for it to load and basically be live. If no player is present that chunk will not be loaded in thus 0 activity in unloaded chunks.

Yes, I was thinking about the technical side too. This would require the server AI, chunk loading, whatever, to be kept active, churning CPU power. Or zombies maybe considered as active players on the server? Not a problem with todays CPUs, but maybe the game engine doesn't really support such thing.

 

[wolfbain5]

On horde night:The advantage of an underground horde base is about using the fall damage of the zombies. Consequently you need a chasm and induce the horde to generally jump down there. Good news: Fataal improved the AI in A18 so zombies will be more likely to take the fast route and drop into a chasm.

Digging zombies don't matter in this szenario except to provide some variability (dumb zombies might dig instead of using the obvious way into the chasm) and like with any other horde base design punish mistakes.

Rest of the week:

Your crafting base is defended above ground, the only necessary defense is a patch of spike traps against screamers. Stealth is 100% on bedrock. If you really want to defend underground, use your horde base as crafting base as well, zombie visitors will fall into the traps you put up for horde night.

fault in your logic. they nerfed zombie fall damage a few alphas ago. and possibly nerfed even more this alpha

 

[Adam the Waster]

So is the demolishor (the green armored Bois) are they a Mid or end game enemy?

Also made a new post about new weapons https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?126581-New-Weapons-Melee-ranged-makeshift-Ect

 

[unholyjoe]

So is the demolishor (the green armored Bois) are they a Mid or end game enemy?




Also made a new post about new weapons https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?126581-New-Weapons-Melee-ranged-makeshift-Ect

high gs level..

(i just finished my day 77)

 

[RestInPieces]

Underground base defense is abit flawed though in that you can't actually defend such a base until the base has been breached. Ideally for an underground base you would expect the zombies to go through your entrance to get to you, allowing for traps to be set along the way. As it stands though, there is no such thing as underground defence, as they will just ignore the realistic path and instead just make their own tunnels to you. Personally, untill this can be fully addressed, I'd rather they just remove digging zombies, or at least add a toggle option.

Personally I'd prefer a different kind of threat for the underground altogether. But definitely agree that the pathing AI has to be made in a way that zombies prefer pathing to you if you are bellow them even if digging is the optimal path.

free xp farm if I'm in the mood

No offence, but I should have started making a controversial comments screenshot collection long ago with TFP comments like "zombies should be obstacles", "free xp farm", "you wouldn't want to level because the game becomes harder" etc. Always felt this great game had an identity crisis, which has more or less been improved lately with the changes you have made/will make. Still, things like the linear GS scaling formula should be improved as well, imo, with more randomness, surprises and less noticable scaling.

 

[Adam the Waster]

high gs level.. (i just finished my day 77)

Great TIME TO GET THE FRAG ROUNDS!

Next ill will Build a flamethrower HOW?! idk

and lastly ill tie two double barrels and make a Multi Barrel Shotgun! SOME HOW!

and you finished day 77

Jealous! i just to 7dtd on PC like a week ago and im on day 45 in navezgane

 

[andrough]

PVP had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Oh I know it. I thought my tongue was sticking far enough through my cheek for everyone to see. (I get a little petty in silly internet arguments and resort to sarcasm.) Thanks for the response about bandits.

 

[madmole]

I love A14 simply because I can get around 50 zombies coming for me at the same time, I modified it to make it a real challenge. 70% chance of being stunned, increased zombie damage so I get killed in 2 hits. I can easily make any Alpha challenging because I don't play it "vanilla" style, I always mod the xml files to my taste. So you think I can't get a challenge in A14? Think again. I don't need ferals or whatever to come for me, I can easily get 50 zombies coming for me and one hit is almost a death sentence since they are swarming me.
In A17 there are not enough zombies outside buildings. Yeah yeah, you got enough sleepers, but the game feels empty even with the modified spawning.xml. Hell, I can go around with a rocket launcher and destroy the house from outside and bait all the zombies somehow without risking my life. I miss the old days when you went to the city and the streets were filled with zombies. Now I can go in any city, including the small town Diersville and unload my pistol into any house and not get any zombies coming for me. I think you discussed about that and you said it was...delayed? And why you call me nuts because my taste is different than yours? Isn't that a bit unfair? I mean, I can call you nuts for doing a keto-like diet, but if you like it and it works, go for it, I got no right to call you nuts because I prefer other things. Now this reply is not related to the zombies and traps comments in the past days, I just told you why I love A14 more than A17.

No offense was meant calling you nuts, it was a generalization compared to most people. I can't see any reason why you can't mod the game to have loads of zombies outside, that code hasn't changed at all. Simply put everything you are after can be done.

The wasteland should be crawling with zombies at night in 18, but you can completely edit this in spawning.xml to make every biome loaded with zombies.

 

[meganoth]

fault in your logic. they nerfed zombie fall damage a few alphas ago.

Not a fault at all.Previously fall damage was OP. Now they balanced fall damage so you can't just farm the bags of the corpses of fallen zombies, you need traps or your guns as well. Fall damage is just a natural trap that provides you with zombies pre-damaged for the slaughter.

and possibly nerfed even more this alpha

And possibly they changed zombies to vampires. Or increased fall damage. Is there any word from TFP THAT they have looked at it again ? I didn't see anything. Why should they?

 

[Adam the Waster]

No offense was meant calling you nuts, it was a generalization compared to most people. I can't see any reason why you can't mod the game to have loads of zombies outside, that code hasn't changed at all. Simply put everything you are after can be done.
The wasteland should be crawling with zombies at night in 18, but you can completely edit this in spawning.xml to make every biome loaded with zombies.

Magic Zombies CONFIRMED!?

- - - Updated - - -

And possibly they changed zombies to vampires. Or increased fall damage. Is that an argument, what they could possibly, maybe have done?

OH HELL NO I WOULD QUIT IF THERE WERE VAMPIRES! feral's are bad enough LoL

 

[Bubo]

Aggressive animals should be the only ones digging layful:

 

[madmole]

Am I right in thinking what you're saying is that people must face the horde unless they turn it off?
Yeah. There's that good old choice again.

Survival doesn't mean necessarily killing zombies, survival means not dying. If you can survive by being underground or on a rooftop, or by wiping out the horde or any combination of the former then it's survival.

We want people to face the horde. Its a big part of the game, for me its the only reason to play at least until the rpg elements get some more depth, but it would take a Skyrim/Fallout level of depth for me to be immersed and we'll never get that far with our first game. Maybe by the 3rd sequel we'll have a team and tech advanced enough to get there.

I mean if there isn't a horde coming for you, what is your purpose? Just to build? Survival is trivial when you take out all the time it takes to prepare for a horde.

We do want to support nomads and let them have a way out of the hordes. I just want to do quests so I can stay at a safe place for a lot of dukes. So something will come eventually, but zombies that can't dig doesn't feel like the best solution. We want underground to have a few more hazards too like breathing should be a problem when you get deeper and require to be in the radius of an electrical powered oxygen generator or something, or wear a mask, etc.

 

[MechanicalLens]

No offense was meant calling you nuts, it was a generalization compared to most people. I can't see any reason why you can't mod the game to have loads of zombies outside, that code hasn't changed at all. Simply put everything you are after can be done.
The wasteland should be crawling with zombies at night in 18, but you can completely edit this in spawning.xml to make every biome loaded with zombies.

There is already a modlet on official the Mod Launcher that does just this, but it also dramatically increases animal spawn rates, and don't get me started on the amount of roaming lumberjack zombies in the snow biome. I tried it once, didn't like it, and now I'm a fair bit grateful that we now have less roaming zombies.

 

[madmole]

What if, and I know this sounds crazy, but what if digging zombies were in the plan all along, and since this is EA it just took a few years for the devs to GET to implementing them?
What if its NOT a big conspiracy to cripple the underground player, but the underground player was just playing with an incomplete feature?

:jaw:

You seriously don't remember digging zombies in the previous alphas?

 

[RipClaw]

high gs level.. (i just finished my day 77)

How would you define high gs level ? 100, 200 or even higher ?

 

[Adam the Waster]

We want people to face the horde. Its a big part of the game, for me its the only reason to play at least until the rpg elements get some more depth, but it would take a Skyrim/Fallout level of depth for me to be immersed and we'll never get that far with our first game. Maybe by the 3rd sequel we'll have a team and tech advanced enough to get there.
I mean if there isn't a horde coming for you, what is your purpose? Just to build? Survival is trivial when you take out all the time it takes to prepare for a horde.

We do want to support nomads and let them have a way out of the hordes. I just want to do quests so I can stay at a safe place for a lot of dukes. So something will come eventually, but zombies that can't dig doesn't feel like the best solution. We want underground to have a few more hazards too like breathing should be a problem when you get deeper and require to be in the radius of an electrical powered oxygen generator or something, or wear a mask, etc.

oooooooooh i want a Gas mask Metro Style where current area's are polluted or house could have gas.

- - - Updated - - -

How would you define high gs level ? 100, 200 or even higher ?

either way i'm getting a double barrel cuz da look Good