PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

I know it's been mentioned before, but I think it's been tweaked a couple of times so I'm now a bit confused.
What can you actually do to reduce or eliminate the risk of throwing up from bad food?

Do cooking perks reduce it? Is there still an "Iron Stomach" perk that reduces it? Are there advanced recipes that can be found that have less chance than the more basic recipes?

Basically, I'm (possibly wrongly) assuming that there is some kind of progression or advancement and in the later game you don't spend all your time puking after every other meal - so what is it that advances?

Or is there no way to mitigate it, and it's just that in the late game you're assumed to have lots of food and can therefore afford to eat-puke-eat-puke-eat each meal?

For cooked foods its like a 2% chance, very small so 1 out of 50 meals you might throw up. You can buy perks to remove it, but why, its actually great change to the game IMO.

Right now all prepared meals have a 2% chance, only canned food is 0% chance.

I actually enjoy it, its that rare hazard that puts a dent in your food supply or causes you some unexpected grief. As always preparation is king.

 

[madmole]

16+1=17.The hatch elevator is not working, unless i misunderstood something.

Totally bummed people latch on to glitches and use them Kind of like rocket jumping in quake, but it was so cool they left it in.

My socket rail system would work for this, elevators and mining cars all in one system.

 

[falloutcloud]

My socket rail system would work for this, elevators and mining cars all in one system.

Socket rail system? Are elevators and mine carts something you are considering in the future? Or am I just reading this wrong?

 

[Kalex]

To be honest, I feel a bit disappointed with the direction that this game is going. Please TFP, and fellow gamers... treat this as a constructive criticism, I am not bashing or attacking anyone.
I am a veteran player, I play since Alpha 1, I loved the game and it still has a place in my heart, but this is in NO WAY a ZOMBIE apocalypse game. You should definitely change the description of the game, because there is not even a single thing that is zombie like in the game.

I know Madmole said that their "zombies" have a unique lore, something like World War Z, but at least don't call it a zombie game because it's not and the "zombies" in World War Z are not zombies, they are just infected people that bite other people to spread the disease, because they feel driven to spread the disease thanks to the virus they are infected with. So if I am infected with a virus that makes me bite people...that makes me a zombie? No, end of story. You can't take a carbonara pasta recipe and add tomato sauce and call it carbonara pasta, because it is not. Feel free to eat the way you want, the sky is the limit and if you like carbonara base recipe + tomato sauce, go for it, but don't call it carbonara. Let's say I develop a racing game and it is meant to be a racing game, but after a lot of alphas I think: "Hmmm, let's add a combat system to the game, guns mounted on cars, special abilities, etc" which would totally make the game something else than what it was meant to be in the first place, now it is a racing-combat game, which was not meant to be when it was created.

Really now, zombies that are smart and avoid traps? Zombies that feel pain and grab their arm/leg when you hit them with the fireaxe or whatever? Zombies that are radiated? Zombies that puke (cops)? Zombies that punch/slap/hit you? A zombie is a living dead, it doesn't feel pain, it doesn't have special abilities and it is certainly not intelligent. Festering corpse is the name of a zombie, really? Corpse? Since when does a corpse feel pain?

I am very disappointed that you made all the normal zombies smart....the traps are totally worthless when you got a horde that can easily avoid them. "Hey, let's surround our base 360 degrees with traps so the "zombies" would walk into them". This is the only way to play A17. This should be a zombie apocalypse game, and it was meant to be so from the very beginning, at least change the description to "infected people apocalypse game" or whatever. Now you will say "It's too easy even with intelligent zombies, so, why take away the challenge? It would be too boring and easy". Well, you got cops, vultures, ferals, dogs, bears, radiated people, spiders and now you will get demolisher "zombie" in A18 plus Behemoth that may or may not come in future alphas...so if you complain about lack of challenge, then ask TFP to make more unique CREATURES, because they can't be called zombies. Plus the bandits are coming, so they will certainly be a challenge.

You have a right to agree or disagree with me, and before you bash me because of this criticism, you should know that I have the right to open my mouth and say my opinion, and I am in no way "butthurt". This is not an attack to TFP, just constructive criticism, treat it like that.

Real zombies are just brain-damaged people not the undead. Look up the history of the word. Romero never called his creatures zombies, he called the ghouls and Romero is considered to be the father of the modern "zombie" genre.

 

[Kalex]

Watch George Romero's zombies and also the Walking Dead. They are undead, not infected people that feel pain and are smart. Since when does a zombie punches you? Since when zombies know how to avoid traps? It's totally bull...sh.it... They should be stupid as hell and with no special abilities.

and neither one of those shows EVER refers to them as zombies. Oh and btw, there are Romero movies that had a few "smart" zombies in it so it's not that lore breaking.

 

[madmole]

To be honest, I feel a bit disappointed with the direction that this game is going. Please TFP, and fellow gamers... treat this as a constructive criticism, I am not bashing or attacking anyone.
I am a veteran player, I play since Alpha 1, I loved the game and it still has a place in my heart, but this is in NO WAY a ZOMBIE apocalypse game. You should definitely change the description of the game, because there is not even a single thing that is zombie like in the game.

I know Madmole said that their "zombies" have a unique lore, something like World War Z, but at least don't call it a zombie game because it's not and the "zombies" in World War Z are not zombies, they are just infected people that bite other people to spread the disease, because they feel driven to spread the disease thanks to the virus they are infected with. So if I am infected with a virus that makes me bite people...that makes me a zombie? No, end of story. You can't take a carbonara pasta recipe and add tomato sauce and call it carbonara pasta, because it is not. Feel free to eat the way you want, the sky is the limit and if you like carbonara base recipe + tomato sauce, go for it, but don't call it carbonara. Let's say I develop a racing game and it is meant to be a racing game, but after a lot of alphas I think: "Hmmm, let's add a combat system to the game, guns mounted on cars, special abilities, etc" which would totally make the game something else than what it was meant to be in the first place, now it is a racing-combat game, which was not meant to be when it was created.

Really now, zombies that are smart and avoid traps? Zombies that feel pain and grab their arm/leg when you hit them with the fireaxe or whatever? Zombies that are radiated? Zombies that puke (cops)? Zombies that punch/slap/hit you? A zombie is a living dead, it doesn't feel pain, it doesn't have special abilities and it is certainly not intelligent. Festering corpse is the name of a zombie, really? Corpse? Since when does a corpse feel pain?

I am very disappointed that you made all the normal zombies smart....the traps are totally worthless when you got a horde that can easily avoid them. "Hey, let's surround our base 360 degrees with traps so the "zombies" would walk into them". This is the only way to play A17. This should be a zombie apocalypse game, and it was meant to be so from the very beginning, at least change the description to "infected people apocalypse game" or whatever. Now you will say "It's too easy even with intelligent zombies, so, why take away the challenge? It would be too boring and easy". Well, you got cops, vultures, ferals, dogs, bears, radiated people, spiders and now you will get demolisher "zombie" in A18 plus Behemoth that may or may not come in future alphas...so if you complain about lack of challenge, then ask TFP to make more unique CREATURES, because they can't be called zombies. Plus the bandits are coming, so they will certainly be a challenge.

You have a right to agree or disagree with me, and before you bash me because of this criticism, you should know that I have the right to open my mouth and say my opinion, and I am in no way "butthurt". This is not an attack to TFP, just constructive criticism, treat it like that.

This is a pretty unpointed criticism. In land of the dead they used tools and the mechanic zombie hung out at the gas station and messed with the gas pump. A pain animation and sound gives the player feedback that you hurt them, to remove that feels like a bad idea just to pretend to be a zombie purist. What you need is a mod that beats down the AI to the point of lemmings I suppose. Most players find the fat cop interesting, it gives zombies a ranged attack a bit more believable than the zombie in quake 1 that tore his own flesh off and threw it at you.

Back to my opening sentence: What is your issue, is the game too hard with interesting AI or your immersion is broke because they play pain sounds? A zombie is anything that this mindless and likes to eat people. There is no standard lore of what a zombie is or isn't, so we make our own that gives the player good combat feedback and an increasing challenge without spawning 5000 zombies on day 200. Our zombies do not have any self preservation in mind, they walk off tall ledges again and get hurt taking damage. They keep coming if you remove limbs.

Anyhow, if every zombie or vampire movie had the same lore it would be pretty predictable and boring IMO. So we take creative license to do what we think makes the game more interesting. These radiated zombies were radiated humans before they turned. They had regenerative abilities in life from some kind of mutation effect from food or atmosphere. I just don't see the issue, its a fun game. End game cannot be dig a 200 meter trench and watch them all die.

 

[madmole]

Zombies, ghouls, super-mutants...call them whatever you like. They are 'the threat'. Games gotta have a threat that's fun and challenging. Sometimes you have to break from 'lore'. If the threat in 7D wasn't somewhat 'smart', you'd live on a roof and win the game on day 1. What's the point in that?
Anyway, you need to get over the semantics of the whole zombie lore thing...like there's rules for how zombies behave and scores on how well they do on SAT's. I mean, they retained motor control of their limbs and jaws...is it such a stretch that they retained some brain function as well? It's all just electrical impulses when you get down to it.

No its not a stretch that they might still react to pain. If they can see, hear, smell, taste then surely they can still feel a bit too. They do feel less and less with each hit and stop caring about it though.

 

[Kalex]

Neither Darth Vader is real, but just because he isn't real, that doesn't mean I can paint his armor pink and put it in the game and call it "Vader".

Umm, they actually did this.

 

[madmole]

I just told you, make normal zombies feel normal, but if you want a challenge, add unique "zombies". It's like you didn't even read the whole thing. At least I am not the only one that dislikes the horde night, which is completely sh.it, no offense to TFP. Well, you can't stay on the roof all the time because you need to go and hunt and scavenge, unless you want to use the creative menu to get yourself free meals.

So an option to disable BM and you are back on board?

 

[Adam the Waster]

I'm exited about new zombies in A18

 

[Sigil_Thane]

I've read what it is 5 times and my brain keeps deleting it because there is something very stupid about it I don't like.

@MadMole

Serious question: is it more that it's a dislike, because prefering a different API is totally valid, or is there something that seems backward/counter productive?

Note I'm avoiding using the term stupid... Trying to be productive here.

The Unity Engine natively supports it and there have been realworld tests that show it runs very well in most cases. ...I'm just trying to gather if it's even worth discussing legitimate points of confusion or if TFP is too tightly tied to DirectX currently.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Twas a good read! Food poisoning is a small step towards creating a dent in your food supplies unexpectedly and it encourages making the more complex high calorie recipes because every time you eat there is that small chance, so if you eat large meals less frequently you in theory at less risk of food poisoning, so there is value in not just nibbling stacks of meat or bacon and eggs and being end game on food on day 1.

one day will there be a system that makes food rot?

 

[madmole]

Watch George Romero's zombies and also the Walking Dead. They are undead, not infected people that feel pain and are smart. Since when does a zombie punches you? Since when zombies know how to avoid traps? It's totally bull...sh.it... They should be stupid as hell and with no special abilities.

Is the game called the walking dead, or George Romero's? Nope. Its TFP's 7 Days to Die. We're focused more on game play right now than lore or aesthetics. At its core though its a TOWER DEFENSE GAME. Its possible down the road we can add simulation controls to dumb them down to walking dead like zombies, or you can easily get a mod to do that. Not sure what this "smart" zombie is you are talking about. They don't spin circles anymore but that doesn't make them smart. A18 they spread out and attack random spots, some figure out the shortest path, others like to pound on your back door, etc.

They attack with fists because doing a grab bite and hold the player down animation is a technical nightmare, especially in a multiplayer game.

 

[madmole]

Are you a troll or you forgot your eye-glasses? I was talking about NORMAL ZOMBIES, not all the zombies in the game. Take the nurse for example, leave it stupid. If you want a challenge, then add unique zombies like the demolisher, behemoth, etc...but leave normal zombies stupid. It's hard to read, of course, since you only want to keep your opinion but with no solid arguments.

No he's being serious because it takes 20 paragraphs out of you to spell out a simple one liner of your actual critique. To me it sounded like you didn't want horde night and you want every zombie to lemmings off a cliff and lay there for you spear them in the head and collect the loot, and no pain feedback. Slowly I'm piecing it together but I'm still confused. How are zombies too smart?

 

[madmole]

Depends on how you define troll. An internet troll or a lore friendly under the bridge troll? What's a normal troll? Who makes the rules?
Oh, and since you mention Romero and his imagining of the undead which are 'not smart'...go watch Day of the Dead again.

Yeah LOL.

 

[madmole]

Thats nice with demolisher edition to the mix, but in A17 something that i resented the most was zombies were running in a straight!! conga line - that really killed the zombie feel. Are now zombies moving more alike to those we had in A16 or still the same as A17?
I really hope zombies will get some randomness of movement back, brainless wandering alike.

Didn't you watch my horde night videos? Zombies spread out and attack various locations and are difficult to keep your eye on.

 

[madmole]

For people like me that grew up with zombies that are stupid, living dead, slow and they overwhelm you with extremely big numbers, then yes, you can have an argument about what zombies are when you see a movie that depicts zombies as living infected people that are sprinting and are smart.
My first zombie "movie" was the Walking Dead which you know how it depicts zombies...and I also remember playing zombie games where zombies were slow, stupid, undead and came in big numbers, so yes, for me the need for a proof and a good argument was real.

You should have started with Dawn of the Dead (2004?) or 28 days later, those inspire me 1000x more than TWD.

 

[madmole]

You're right man. I don't hate anyone for not agreeing with me, don't take me wrong, but good arguments were needed. I hope this discussion is ended...because there is no point to continue.

And proof that I should read ahead before replying.

 

[spacepiggio]

Oh, but there is method to my supposed madness. You notice the ramps that the spikes are not placed down? I can easily jump on top of those and gain easy access to all the spikes around the tower. The barbed wire fence I have no issue jumping over. Sure, it's not a long-term design (not a feasible one anyway), but it works decently for what it's supposed to be. I don't mind losing zombie kills in A17 (unlike A18). Also, I'm probably going to install a guardrail along the outside rim of the bars to prevent me from falling off the edge.
Edit: This was after the horde. I was only in fly mode this one time (and the previous time before the horde started) for screenshots.

This is what has been working for the me, Being an ex Combat Engineer & trained in field fortifications the Roman Defenses have stood the test of time & very affective in this game...

Only thing different is I add 4 Pillars on the corners with a walkway & yes I use the bars for a railing...

 

[Sigil_Thane]

How are zombies too smart?

My only gripe with "smart zombies" is that somehow on blood moons all of them intuitively know to move around to the South side of a building climb a ladder to a 2nd floor and then run inside a building to batter on a door on the roof, when not even a normal player would be able to figure the ideal route so quickly.

Granted, it sounds like in a18 there has been changes in that regard.