PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
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MechanicalLens
New member
You can craft beer with hops, yes, but drinking it makes you more drunk than a teenager on prom night, and its benefits only last several seconds. (Or at least in A17 it was the case.) It's basically useless in its current form...
Dark_Corvid
New member
This right here. Seriously. People on our server, on multiple maps, have gone 10 to 20 hours without finding one. That's a pretty big deal when food is so important and can be a factor in a death loop, which leads to players disinfecting in the game. The new system is a good idea.
For those who want their own version of realism, well thank TFP the game is modable. They could be like many, many other contemporary developers and not allow for mods.
Edit: I should've kept reading, lol. Consider this an echo of similar posts.
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Aldranon
New member
A18 will go down as the: "Get off your lazy ass!" build.
NOW, I believe, you have to explore the world... hard. Because GameStage will eat you if you piss around too much.
I love and hate the demo zombie, which means WELL DONE TFP!
No more working during hoard night for me, I have to engage at least THAT GUY! So now I will look and listen for him and unleash as much hell on him as I can!
GOD, how I want to play A18 now.
Zombie_Jam
New member
Very nice, testing the INT build.I'm on it
I hope you can go full INT, it would certainly enlighten many of us who recently, erm, 'discussed' it
ZombieHorde
New member
Couldn't have said it better.
I know I could be jumping the gun, but from the explanations from MM, it appears that the game is only going to concentrate on 4 survival aspects. Killing zombies, building your fort, looting and a small amount of crafting. You could say trader, food, gardening, perks, electricity, health, clothes and mining are becoming dumbed down systems that support the other 4, but are only less than 5% of the game now. Definitely don't seem to be the rich and rewarding systems they once were.
Hephaestus
New member
I must protest...
This is my first post here, so forgive me. I've been a long time lurker here and just used the forums to get updates on the progress of the game. My issue is with the new farming changes. I never really thought it was tedious, and I quite liked tilling the land. I also liked that the dirt could look more organic and natural when tilled next to normal dirt. I definitely hated that we had to punch to harvest, instead of hitting E, but I could live with that. With that said, I do not like this new planer box system. It looks insanely more tedious and extremely expensive. The nitrate and rotten meat is what completely ruins this for me, as the rotten meat will be very difficult to get in the quantity I will need for the gardens I use to make. The nitrate is a critical resource for bullets which are very important as the game stage progresses. If the hoe is now useless and the only way to garden is via planter box, then it will be a major turnoff to garden.
Gardening was a big enjoyment for me, and it was very doable. I played pure vanilla, zero mods, and max difficulty with 64 max zombies, and I played solo. My gardens were always 10 by 10 so I would have an even 100 plants, and with living off the land maxed, I would always harvest a full stack of whatever each time, which was great. I had a few boxes full of plants, and I got great joy every time I opened it and saw all the food. I liked making veggie stew, it was my go-to meal when I didn't have the rotten meat for hobo stew. I feel like now though with the new system, it will be too costly to justify making the boxes, and I would rather not have to tone down my garden sizes. It's really the expensive cost of the boxes that bother me. I'm sure I'll be added to the group of "haters", but this is my legit gripe and I am actually very confused at the people who are okay with new change and saying this simplifies things. Does it really, though? Can we have other options? I would take a much more time consuming option if it meant I can save on nitrate and rotten flesh. I would spend an entire in-game day tilling if I have to, since time is free, but nitrate and meat has to be looted, which I feel like would take infinitely more time to do, which would cut into my every day looting and mining time.
Anyways, I know this was a ramble, but this is a legitimate opinion from someone who has had this game for many alphas, so I think my opinion should be taken into consideration along with everyone who feels the new system is great.
ok peeps.. i decided to go ahead and jump back a build or so and show you a tad bit about the farm plot..
i hope it shows you what you are asking about, i thought i covered what was needed... one thing i forgot to show you was.. you can paint the plots too.. i did do a screen shot. enjoy
the plot is a 1 m block.
video:
This is my first post here, so forgive me. I've been a long time lurker here and just used the forums to get updates on the progress of the game. My issue is with the new farming changes. I never really thought it was tedious, and I quite liked tilling the land. I also liked that the dirt could look more organic and natural when tilled next to normal dirt. I definitely hated that we had to punch to harvest, instead of hitting E, but I could live with that. With that said, I do not like this new planer box system. It looks insanely more tedious and extremely expensive. The nitrate and rotten meat is what completely ruins this for me, as the rotten meat will be very difficult to get in the quantity I will need for the gardens I use to make. The nitrate is a critical resource for bullets which are very important as the game stage progresses. If the hoe is now useless and the only way to garden is via planter box, then it will be a major turnoff to garden.
Gardening was a big enjoyment for me, and it was very doable. I played pure vanilla, zero mods, and max difficulty with 64 max zombies, and I played solo. My gardens were always 10 by 10 so I would have an even 100 plants, and with living off the land maxed, I would always harvest a full stack of whatever each time, which was great. I had a few boxes full of plants, and I got great joy every time I opened it and saw all the food. I liked making veggie stew, it was my go-to meal when I didn't have the rotten meat for hobo stew. I feel like now though with the new system, it will be too costly to justify making the boxes, and I would rather not have to tone down my garden sizes. It's really the expensive cost of the boxes that bother me. I'm sure I'll be added to the group of "haters", but this is my legit gripe and I am actually very confused at the people who are okay with new change and saying this simplifies things. Does it really, though? Can we have other options? I would take a much more time consuming option if it meant I can save on nitrate and rotten flesh. I would spend an entire in-game day tilling if I have to, since time is free, but nitrate and meat has to be looted, which I feel like would take infinitely more time to do, which would cut into my every day looting and mining time.
Anyways, I know this was a ramble, but this is a legitimate opinion from someone who has had this game for many alphas, so I think my opinion should be taken into consideration along with everyone who feels the new system is great.
ZombieHorde
New member
Yeah, again I'm one that likes the complexity. To get to Z have to go from A first. And would it be a grind? Well, no more than looting can be a grind. Or mining. The point is that it's a survival game and we have to grind some to survive.
And will they get more sales? I'm starting to think not, because it is starting to dumb down to becoming just another ordinary game. Not the advanced systems that 7 days had prior.
I can hear MM asking "what advanced things?" We've only made a small change. But even that small change of simplifying the game can alter the feel a lot to us older players.
Roland
Community Moderator
Welcome to non-lurking status
I think you have legitimate concerns and are correct that the new system is definitely not a dumbing down of farming. It is a change towards crafting as the means instead of using a tool on the terrain of the world. The cost may be too much but we will have to see through playing and maybe the recipe will be adjusted. Changing quantities of recipes is the easiest change in the world so something that could be done even during experimental depending on the feedback.
I do think that being able to easily create a 10x10 garden plot for stacks of 100 crops each harvest probably contributes to the feeling of too much food. Some solutions that were talked about were animals destroying crops, adding a dead phase to the growth cycle, and food spoilage. Madmole mentioned that they were going to look at balancing first and for sure the cost and effort of creating a garden that will perpetually furnish food forever is something that can be adjusted for that balance. This might be why the cost is so high initially but maybe that will change.
Zombie_Jam
New member
What you've done to the farming is unforgiveable.
I'm all for streamlining and like you, I dislike raking through pages of posts - but I had to for this rather disappointing news.
You have farming in the game, which is by far one of the best additions. People on here are narrowminded and I think to some degree, you too. I used to play with a friend of mine and she would much prefer base tending, clothing crafting, farming, and some mining with a little zombie hunting while I went about my business.
Having farming as something something of a task was grest. Tilling the land, crafting fertiliser and scattering it, the manual labour really made things worthwhile. But now, craft a box and pseudo-gate the seeds by having them in loot? You are forcing a play style yet again.
It's subtle, but it's there. Pushing those out to loot who may not want to. I think it would be wise of you to remember that one of your biggest selling points thusfar is choice of playstyle. That flexibility really did allow each to their own. Having friends with different roles, it really built co-dependency which was amazing, and something now even more important since your focus (without modding exp) is that a player cannot just spec into everything without a gargantuan grind.
Now with a simple craft the box and search for seeds, it seems it comes with awful tedium and removes the whole physical interaction with the land for those who wanted to feel like they had achieved something.
I'd like to respond to another user here too that said this game isn't a 'farming simulator.'
Yeah, and? It has farming, and that is a fantastic addition and something me (and my friend way moreso) wish received some love and development for the sake of self sufficiency, much like the builing of your own 'home' instead of squatting, contributing towards that feeling of achievement and survivability.
If the farming aspect is going to be cheapened like this - removing fertiliser, removing the hoe, and the tilling, the ability to turn the wild lands into sprawling farms, and giving us boxes instead, I would say that is farming might as well be removed. This makes it less and less relevant, which is tragic.
I'd like to finish this by saying the farming boxes are beautiful, and I adore the design, how they flushly sit with other blocks and will make an incredible addition. I just believe both systems should be left as they are - nothing like having the option.
Long post but yeah, now bring on the:
#WallOfText
#YouHaven'tPlayedA18
#A17Retrovision
Aldranon
New member
"Complexity. The games entire fanbase was built on it".
OMG you can't be serious. This is even too pompous for you.
You want complexity? Play "Victoria 2".
If people were serious about the older versions being better, they would be playing them. I'm sure some do. I liked the hub cities, but I dont go back because (not counting A17) the newer release were better in enough ways to play it.
I agree completely. I have been reading over the comments on this forum and now I feel compelled to make a comment of my own. I believe that I can safely say that, to the majority of the members of this forum, 7 Days To Die is a just game that they play and perhaps enjoy immensely. But to mad mole and a select few others... well it's their baby. And, no one wants to hear that their baby is ugly. So, I can understand mad moles responses. I also understand that a few players hate to see changes made to their favorite game. But, to condemn something before even trying it, is more about personal ego than game play-ability. I for one am eager to try the new version. I will wait until i have played it for a few days before I critique it. That being said; I believe that we all have pretty well beaten this farming dead horse into a gore pile. We should all hike up our big-boy britches and move on. I am very curious about the 24 MFs. What is your best guess at resolution time for those items?
Aldranon
New member
For me, A17's Zombie AI was at too fine of a point. A "Go near the player and hit something/anything if not the player" Would have been fine.
I ended up building brute strength forts so they had to hit something, but, like clockwork, they would hit every other block 90% of the time. So I just crafted on horde night until I just decided to wait for A18.
Gazz
Fun Pimps Staff
Cans of water were another sharp stick. An entire system that many players never used or even knew about and the ones who used it did so maybe once in a game. It was the best that could be done at the time but we have better tools now. It is no longer needed.
That they were balanced by using more inventory space was just the polishing on the turd.
Better yet, you can buy the perk, craft all the seeds, then use a respec potion and keep harvesting that farm without the perk while re-spending the skill points elsewhere. Same if you want to craft a gyrocopter...
(and that's why I still think that a respec potion is a horrible idea )
The new plots have other advantages such as not fighting the voxel terrain so it's a toss-up.
The "removal of complexity" is largely made up. A complicated system is not automatically a better system. There was never a choice between using a hoe or using the other way because there was no other way.
Like if a forge is completely empty/new, display a big arrow showing "Fuel and light up the forge to smelt resources in these slots"
and another arrow to the resource counts "Smelted resources are used to craft items in the forge".
That they were balanced by using more inventory space was just the polishing on the turd.
If you're patient you can find schematics for the individual seeds.
Better yet, you can buy the perk, craft all the seeds, then use a respec potion and keep harvesting that farm without the perk while re-spending the skill points elsewhere. Same if you want to craft a gyrocopter...
(and that's why I still think that a respec potion is a horrible idea
)But he likes it rough so it's all good.
Because it's a one trick pony. You use it once then put it away. There is no point in modding them or doing anything else with them.
To be fair, I still don't like that I have to dig a hole to place a farm plot that is even with the terrain. =P
The new plots have other advantages such as not fighting the voxel terrain so it's a toss-up.
The "removal of complexity" is largely made up. A complicated system is not automatically a better system. There was never a choice between using a hoe or using the other way because there was no other way.
Can a new player play a no-crafting challenge, though?
We know. It could really use better guidance on the forge screen.
Like if a forge is completely empty/new, display a big arrow showing "Fuel and light up the forge to smelt resources in these slots"
and another arrow to the resource counts "Smelted resources are used to craft items in the forge".
MechanicalLens
New member
100 clay soil was recently added to the recipe.
DaVegaNL
Beloved Curmudgeon
I'm actually not a fan of this. I think the game is already too easy for my taste, and this will decrease the difficulty even further. That's even besides the other arguments of immersion into the game-world. It already felt too empty, now it's gonna be even worse.
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