PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[KingSlayerGM]

I would expect, even if this is implemented, it will remain a simple modification to adjust points per level to allow for opening all perks / skills etc.

Yes, I agree, as it has always been. However I wonder whats the reason to do it.

 

[Scavengers_son]

Eventually we'll put a level cap in probably and make people re-start to get every perk.

Any chance of making a soft level cap instead of hard one? I'm talking about a way to mix "pushing your envelope" with a limited gradual respecification ability.

I think it could be a thing, because early game requires a set of skills that is quite different from late game. Let's say, early on you usually want to build yourself a nice, safe and functional base, so it makes sense to invest in mining, building, and crafting skills. Later on, you have your impenetrable fortress set up, so you want to go looting and questing for some fun and danger. But alas, you have already used up all your skill choices for building stuff, and reached your level cap. So it's game over, man, game over!!!

Wouldn't it be nice if you could start gradually moving from a builder or miner to a silent ninja looter, or fearsome sledgehammer-wielding zombie smasher instead? Please note I'm not talking about cheesy mechanims like borderlands or pillars of eternity, where you can buy instant respec with money. I'm talking about gradually trading some skills for other skills over time, as you gain levels past your "soft cap".

I'd like to think it's like in real life. If you stop working out because you have to go study some quantum physics, you start losing all your hard earned muscle after a couple of weeks or so, but you will start learning science skill instead. When you have finally finished your nerdy science project and built your null energy reactor or whatever, then you can choose to go hit the gym again in hopes you can still one day bench that 221 lbs once more. So, instead of thinking of skill advancement as a one way road, it would be more like filling a leaking bucket. You know, kind of like body building

Not sure how that would do with the single scalar level value, though. Maybe have one-way progress up until level cap, and start losing xp and levels over time with an increasing pace for every level over cap? Perhaps the game could keep track of what skill has been used the least since last level change, for choosing which skill to degrade when player loses a level due to stagnation.

This way players could push real hard to reach a very high level, but keeping it up would demand constant hard work, determination and dedication. Also, the soft cap would ensure new players will get past the first levels, and not keep regressing to level 1.

 

[agrastiOs]

It was never intended to have 300 levels its legacy crap. Eventually we'll put a level cap in probably and make people re-start to get every perk.

Please no.

 

[OzHawkeye]

Yes, I agree, as it has always been. However I wonder whats the reason to do it.

Well, I should leave that to Madmole to explain further, as it's so far outside my own gaming preferences, that I can't, just for myself, see the incentive. The first thing I do in any game that has skill selections, Ark, 7Days, whatever it might be, is make sure I mod it so I can eventually get them all.

I'm all good with it taking a long time, even a very long time, even potentially a longer time than my usual "I wanna restart now" internal-gamer-timer, to get that very last one, but I "wants 'em allz!". I guess, if I had to take some sort of stab at it, the system would encourage deep thinking about what skills you do and don't get, but 7Days just doesn't strike me as a character class based game.

 

[crazywildfire]

Well, I should leave that to Madmole to explain further, as it's so far outside my own gaming preferences, that I can't, just for myself, see the incentive. The first thing I do in any game that has skill selections, Ark, 7Days, whatever it might be, is make sure I mod it so I can eventually get them all.
I'm all good with it taking a long time, even a very long time, even potentially a longer time than my usual "I wanna restart now" internal-gamer-timer, to get that very last one, but I "wants 'em allz!". I guess, if I had to take some sort of stab at it, the system would encourage deep thinking about what skills you do and don't get, but 7Days just doesn't strike me as a character class based game.

Feel the same way. Would of said the same to let MM explain it but don't think it is a very popular choice. If I had to take a stab at it I would also add based on how it has been brought up that they want you to play again but pick a different path then the last time.

Maybe it is still to soon to see the bigger picture where we are still missing things. But as of now I see the only reasons a lot of people start a new game is because of a update. So once more content and story is in place maybe will have more reasons to restart and do this.

As for servers/multiplayer not sure what the motivation would be to start over unless you tired of the server you on or the server you on the owner of it doesn't refresh much and not much left in the world.

I would also wouldn't mind once you hit what they considered right now max level anything past that taking longer to achieve.

 

[RipClaw]

The safe place won't do much good if the last player logs out during the bm. The server will then stay empty until the admin wakes up and forwards time. There needs to be a way to skip hordes for regular players. On every server I've played on or ran myself, empty servers in the middle of bm are an issue.

Since I always play as a single player I never had this problem but I see that there is a problem for players on servers.

Nobody wants to log in during a bm on an empty server because the zombies start attacking immediately. No way to prepare, and now not even the possibility to jump on a jeep and flee? Why does anyone care if a player skips a hordenight. I really don't get it. There's like 100 hordenights during a game. Why should skipping a few of them matter?

I don't get it either. There is talk of balance, risk and reward. Some have also argued that they want that for themselves to have risk and more fun. The same arguments came when it came to the underground bases.

I hope that the developers will decide for a solution that can also be handled by average players and does not necessarily lead to the death of the game character. Deactivating the vehicles in the horde night is simply not a solution for me.

A mini game where you have to dodge the zombies I see rather as a solution. But you have to make sure that the difficulty is balanced.

What are we surviving for if we can't change our situation for the better and forever and always have to stay vigilant? It makes no sense to me

Long-term goals do not seem to play a major role in the game. I'd also like to see you get the chance to live completely self-sufficient, far away from the zombies and the dangers. Why survive at all if there is nothing worth living for?

 

[kamer1337]

at which alpha devs are gonna stop rewritting skill tree and rebalance things?

 

[RipClaw]

at which alpha devs are gonna stop rewritting skill tree and rebalance things?

The moment they are going gold. When that will be, even the developers might not know for sure.

 

[HerrKingsley]

Maybe, the toxicity here has dampened my spirits to where I might not sound enthusiastic enough to make a compelling video.

Dont take it personally. I my self might sound toxic from time to time. But it has nothing to do with you personally.

I just get engaged in the debate and the game, plus English is not my native language so the subtitle nuance might get lost in translation.

I know you are breaking your back and pursuing your vision and I respect that and I'm grateful for that.

 

[Xeen]

@TFP

Would you guys please look into increasing brass availability because right now brass is crazy hard to source.

Would you consider making copper and zinc available to mine if so that would be great.

 

[meganoth]

The safe place won't do much good if the last player logs out during the bm. The server will then stay empty until the admin wakes up and forwards time. There needs to be a way to skip hordes for regular players. On every server I've played on or ran myself, empty servers in the middle of bm are an issue.

Have you heard that trader hotels will be available (in A19?) where you can skip the horde for a sum of Dukes? The safe place problem is solved. The hotel is a balanced way of skipping the horde, make money->pay trader->stay safe. Regular players can do that.

Also there are apparently no plans to completely shut down driving on horde night, TFP are thinking of making it just more difficult. There is nothing removed, just balanced.

 

[RipClaw]

@TFP
Would you guys please look into increasing brass availability because right now brass is crazy hard to source.

Would you consider making copper and zinc available to mine if so that would be great.

In A18 there will be a book that will give you the ability to get more brass e.g. from doors in the form of doorknobs.

 

[Prisma501]

@TFP
Would you guys please look into increasing brass availability because right now brass is crazy hard to source.

Would you consider making copper and zinc available to mine if so that would be great.

There will be no combining metals for brass cording to MM. He was pretty stong on that opinion.

Cheers

 

[Kage848]

I really don't care much for them anymore. They take so much time to get ready for and build up the base, especially at the start. Time I would much rather be doing other stuff like exploring and doing quests. I have played way more vanilla in a17 than I have in a long time. The last time I played I just turned off the hordes and enjoyed the game and it was a whole lot better. No real reason to do them, just a thing that takes away half of my exploring time for practically no reward. Now in a16 I could build a horde defense in a days time and I didn't mind doing the horde, it isn't like that anymore.

Well if your talking horde base starageties I'd argure alpha 17 has way more strategy. And that for me makes horde base building even more interesting and fun.

 

[Kage848]

I don't mind that, but that promotes an endless death loop.

That is one of the worst things you could ever put in the game. Number 1 worst!

There would be a #gate like you have never seen and everyone would mod it out, day 1.

I had to deal with that in some mod I used to play. It was a nightmare.

 

[Kage848]

Maybe, the toxicity here has dampened my spirits to where I might not sound enthusiastic enough to make a compelling video.

Omg. Welcome to my world when I'm reading YouTube comments lol.

This is how I deal with it, might help you. Before reading YouTube comments, or the forums, just ready yourself for any potential hate. I say to myself, theres gonna be hate, get ready. Then read. I find it helps alot.

I use the term hate loosely btw. Its not really hate, just patioate people on the internet. Sometimes It can be hurtful, annoying or rage inducing lol.

Times like that I head to the gym, put on some slipknot and excersise it all away.

 

[Hamburglar]

Please no.

.pLEASE nO

 

[Kage848]

Love ya Kage but that isn't what the game was named after. There wasn't a horde night at the beginning. It was named after the 7 days the infection took to kill you. Just to be accurate.

Yea but this ain't 2013 anymore. Pretty sure the 7 day horde is what the name of the game refers to. Or am I mistaken @mademole?

Great hearing from us JCrook

- - - Updated - - -

Was watching season 3 of stranger things and that big Russian guy looks a LOT like Arnold, like he could do his stunts for him, even sounds like Arnold a bit. I was cracking Arnold imitations of him while we watched him chase them "I'm ova here, kill me, come one" lol. I always wanted to do a lets play 7 days with arnold where I pretend I'm Arnold play 7 days and mod in special abilities, it would be hilarious. One punch doors and zeds, and crack one liners.

He was definitely an Arnold reference. Season 3 was great.

 

[RipClaw]

Have you heard that trader hotels will be available (in A19?) where you can skip the horde for a sum of Dukes? The safe place problem is solved. The hotel is a balanced way of skipping the horde, make money->pay trader->stay safe. Regular players can do that.

The problem he's describing is that you log in and realize that it's horde night right now. There is no time to go to the trader and rent a room.

Also there are apparently no plans to completely shut down driving on horde night, TFP are thinking of making it just more difficult. There is nothing removed, just balanced.

Several possibilities are currently being discussed in parallel. Among others the EMP solution. Therefore the discussion is a bit confused in the forum.

By the way, the EMP solution was proposed directly by madmole. So it's not just a suggestion from a player.

The probability that the EMP solution will be the end of the process may not be very high but so far everything is still open.

 

[Kage848]

I'm ok with quest rewards and tower defense quests, but agree that every day horde night would not need a reward if the above issues were addressed.
There is a certain threshold though, where the labor of base repair and ammo production to stop the horde becomes well more labor than fun. How to solve that?

Once people see how slow leveling is in A18 they might change their tune and appreciate leveling up on a horde night. We could increase XP on horde night as well, since they are running and generally more dangerous than regular zombies.

The idea of not getting any rewards for horde night is a strange one for me.

On one hand i dont really care. I'd do horde night no matter what. No exp, loot, repairs, ammo, I dont care. The thing I love most about this game is the base defense part.

With that said there are alot of people skipping them, in one way or another. That's a flaw of game design in it's current state. Well all agree on this.

So group A says take out all exploits, give ZERO rewards, and no survival is not a reward. Fun gameplay is a reward. Some people dont see wasting ammo and repair resources worth the gameplay on horde night.

Group B says give the players incentive to want to do horde nights. Aka, rewards that equal fun gameplay for these people. Exp and loot mainly.

Groups A's solution is much easier to pull off. Why? No balance required. I dont have any issues with this option. I just think the group B option should be addressed as well.

For me, games are about the carrot and the stick. You need to have rewards for gameplay. Some people feel surviving is the reward. Others want not only to survive but thrive.