PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Blake_]

Have some self control? If you know it ruins it, why do you press it? Hmmm lets press the ruin button, yes, lets ruin it. OH NO WTF did I do that? Its ruined now!!!!

While I understand the reasons behind it, once the game is Gold and perfect and has been for many weeks I would LOVE an OPTION to remove it for everybody (something in the lines of CONSOLE: admin +players/only admin/noone). I mean when there are no new bugs or testing purposes to use it, what would be the point of that dev tool for the ones that don't want to use it?.

An extra option for us players that would add a LOT to immersion. Doesn't matter what you design, develop or balance, right now I can spam 19478569287435 bullets in a sec if I feel like it and you have no way to stop me. CHEESY EXPLOIT.

 

[THARN]

Playing dead is dead most of my games... I like the levelling up slower idea.

Question: For Mad Mole


I know smell is not going to be put back in-- I cant remember if it was a programming issue or not.

But I always had my most intense over night stays-early in the game where I could hear the z's outside and they would detect me a bit while I crouched in a corner in the dark. white knuckled, thinking they were going to bash through the wall to get me.

Is there going to be a mechanic introduced or enhanced that brings back the trepidation of hiding and hoping not to get caught by a Night time Z?

 

[AtomicUs5000]

There is a certain threshold though, where the labor of base repair and ammo production to stop the horde becomes well more labor than fun. How to solve that?

I think we're missing some advanced later game traps that defend more effectively with less resource expenditure to compensate for when the horde goes mostly green. Usually in games where things start to stagnate, some new resource is available, and usually attainable from some new entities.

For example, at some point the Demolisher is going to show up. Killing the Demolisher might have a chance to drop some new resource, which would then be used to make some better defenses. Perhaps that resource is also very valuable for other things, so you have to make a choice whether to reinvest that resource into base defense, or into other things.

 

[Guppycur]

So rent a room from a trader, or build a quick vulture shack on a roof. Try to out run them. Its like plants vs zombies, if you don't feel like clicking guess what, your doing to die lol. If you don't feel like it... I mean come on this is a survival game. Nobody feels like surviving, its just instinctive. You can always just strip down and offer yourself to the zombies and wait til morning to respawn too, an offering to the zombie gods.

Or make blood moons more interesting. Yes I know, thousands of hours played, I get it, but y'all are brilliant, use that brilliance to extend the fun with something other than bullet sponges.

Demolisher sounds cool, so keep going along those lines. Make us WANT to play horde nights.

 

[madmole]

Okay look... as you might know (or not, but I've been pretty... open about that ) I play Rolmod. Why? Because grinding levels is a chore. It has nothing to do with having fun. And since you NEED perks to be efficient, you need more xp.

So making it even MORE tedious (you call it slow, because you probably enjoy it, but for someone who doesn't enjoy farming xp) makes the game even less enjoyable.

So can we PLEASE talk about active traps giving xp again?

We had that discussion in A15 I think, when I accepted that spikes and so on shouldnt give xp.

But with how rare ammo is becoming and how much XP you lose by "protecting" yourself, electric fences are basicially the only viable defense now. Since everything else kills your XP.

Please. Let all electric traps give you xp. Or at least partial xp.

They "cost" electricity. They cost upkeep, they cost ammo. So nothing here is "for free". If a shotgun turret needs 3 shots for a normal zombie, than not getting the xp is just not worth it.

Barricading behind 10 rows of iron bars are probably the only viable option... or kill tunnels.

PLEASE rethink traps giving xp. PLEASE.

With level gates removed if you specialize in combat you get very powerful faster than you can find a decent weapon to use that power with. It needed to be slowed so you could actually smell the coffee instead of inhale it and be at the finish line. It levels about like Skyrim/Fallout now about 7 levels in the first 3 hours, 3 in the the next, and around 1 level every hour or two for a while. If you actively farm XP it would be more. Level 50 is very powerful now. With slower leveling you tend to get a chance to feel every stage of the game more, before I'd have 5-15 points sitting around unspent, now I want to use them as they come in because I feel like I need them and want them.
It was never intended to have 300 levels its legacy crap. Eventually we'll put a level cap in probably and make people re-start to get every perk.

All turrets in A18 give some XP, (if you are near) but spikes will not.

Its not farming at all. I play the game and level up. People who farm and want to get to x level are creating their own hell with game stage getting too high IMO. Its a good pace now where you will find decent gear to deal with the impending doom that is coming, if you level too fast or make poor perk choices you will have to deal with it. Its not our fault, you got greedy and spread yourself too thin, specialize and do well, like other RPGs.

That said there is an xp slider.

 

[madmole]

Good to hear that there will be much more RPG-content in the future. Because playing a game as a certain role or function is not the same as an RPG. Playing a shooter as a sniper is not playing an RPG.

It is if there are perks that make you better with sniper riles than a noob on day one. You guys have no idea what an RPG is.

 

[madmole]

While I understand the reasons behind it, once the game is Gold and perfect and has been for many weeks I would LOVE an OPTION to remove it for everybody (something in the lines of CONSOLE: admin +players/only admin/noone). I mean when there are no new bugs or testing purposes to use it, what would be the point of that dev tool for the ones that don't want to use it?.
An extra option for us players that would add a LOT to immersion. Doesn't matter what you design, develop or balance, right now I can spam 19478569287435 bullets in a sec if I feel like it and you have no way to stop me. CHEESY EXPLOIT.

Inconvenience millions of people because you lack no self control? If anything we'll do a startup arg like --nodm so you don't have a console, but by default it will be on.

 

[madmole]

Playing dead is dead most of my games... I like the levelling up slower idea.
Question: For Mad Mole


I know smell is not going to be put back in-- I cant remember if it was a programming issue or not.

But I always had my most intense over night stays-early in the game where I could hear the z's outside and they would detect me a bit while I crouched in a corner in the dark. white knuckled, thinking they were going to bash through the wall to get me.

Is there going to be a mechanic introduced or enhanced that brings back the trepidation of hiding and hoping not to get caught by a Night time Z?

I hope so. Smell was removed because we changed framework and it would have had to have been re-added, and tuning in stealth was hard enough without another bunch of knobs to dial in.

 

[madmole]

Or make blood moons more interesting. Yes I know, thousands of hours played, I get it, but y'all are brilliant, use that brilliance to extend the fun with something other than bullet sponges.
Demolisher sounds cool, so keep going along those lines. Make us WANT to play horde nights.

I'm sure when I personally get to a late game, my inner genius will kick in and want to change things up. I usually play to level 30-60 and something breaks my game, so I don't get a taste of late game horde night that you guys are tired of. Once I do I'm sure I'll want to make it better. I can cheat it in to a high game stage, but I'd rather get there on my own terms in a long term legit game.

 

[madmole]

I'll have to admit, I LOL'd. Twice.

 

[Dimpy]

There is a certain threshold though, where the labor of base repair and ammo production to stop the horde becomes well more labor than fun. How to solve that?

A series of defenses that have progressively higher upfront costs, but lower maintenance/ammo costs. This also adds more long term planning to the game and gives a goal of creating a sustainable fortress.

I get that there were issues with log spikes, but I really liked how choosing log spikes vs regular spikes felt like a choice between improving my ability to survive short term vs long term.

 

[Sigil_Thane]

To add to SnowDog: A body builder cannot also be a jockey. What if he wants to be both?

He should get into elephant racing.

 

[Thecolours]

We are planning repair and defend quests where players can repair some walls of a fort, then a horde comes and you defend the settler. If the settler survives you get a nice reward from a trader, as this settlement is important to their faction goals, or the settler gave his money to the trader to find someone, so you get paid after the deed is done rather than kill the settler and take the prize.

Oh, hell yeah. I've been wanting this forever. So glad it's coming.

 

[Thecolours]

With level gates removed if you specialize in combat you get very powerful faster than you can find a decent weapon to use that power with. It needed to be slowed so you could actually smell the coffee instead of inhale it and be at the finish line. It levels about like Skyrim/Fallout now about 7 levels in the first 3 hours, 3 in the the next, and around 1 level every hour or two for a while. If you actively farm XP it would be more. Level 50 is very powerful now. With slower leveling you tend to get a chance to feel every stage of the game more, before I'd have 5-15 points sitting around unspent, now I want to use them as they come in because I feel like I need them and want them.
It was never intended to have 300 levels its legacy crap. Eventually we'll put a level cap in probably and make people re-start to get every perk.

All turrets in A18 give some XP, (if you are near) but spikes will not.

Its not farming at all. I play the game and level up. People who farm and want to get to x level are creating their own hell with game stage getting too high IMO. Its a good pace now where you will find decent gear to deal with the impending doom that is coming, if you level too fast or make poor perk choices you will have to deal with it. Its not our fault, you got greedy and spread yourself too thin, specialize and do well, like other RPGs.

That said there is an xp slider.

I'm assuming blade traps and electric fences will give xp as well?

 

[Viktoriusiii]

[...]

While I absolutely hate that level cap idea, since 7d2d is not an rpg you generally restart to see different endings and make different choices... at least it isn't currently (with npcs and a bit more radiant world that will change) since it doesn't add anything, since you are artificially handycapped to become a master of all (I mean you can be a master of all in fallout, don't you?). Most people never even get there... but the thought that I will not even be able to even if I put the time into it is disheartening.

Levelcaps in RPGs are... basicially unheard of.

Most have some unofficial level cap (like non respawning enemies like gothic/gothic2/gothic3; skills beeing maxed like skyrim and oblivion) but I don't think I know of any game where you can not learn all the things, that isn't either a linear RPG or a Multiplayer game where balance is an issue.

Having to restart just to get a different playstyle is... very unappealing to me and as far as I can tell, to a lot of people.

You worked so hard for your base, for your weapons and all... now throw all that away to be able to use a sledgehammer instead of a bow?

Dunno... doesn't sound appealing to me and I KNOW no multiplayer players like this. Because that is not how multiplayer works

But that turrets give some XP is great! With that I feel MUCH more inclined to actually use them, even if they waste a bit of ammo. Simply because that makes it easier to kill the Z's.

XP slider is nice for single player... but try finding a server with your specific settings

Don't get me wrong I don't want fast progress (rolmod makes it A LOT slower, since you only get ~1-3 skillpoints a day)

I just think that the more is "locked" behind perks, the more those perks are desirable. And if there is a way to get them faster than by regular play, that WILL be exploited. This has nothing to do with "min/maxers". It is basic psychology. You want what makes you better/more efficient.

In rolmod, there is no way to get it faster. Only surviving. Which makes surviving your number 1 priority with all that it entales.

Deaths mean something now. But as long as there is a way to "grind" xp, people will do it. Not because it is fun, but because the "goal" of the game is to get better/more efficient.

 

[Roland]

It is if there are perks that make you better with sniper riles than a noob on day one. You guys have no idea what an RPG is.

I see now how you are defining RPG and what a “role” is so I agree that 7 Days is an RPG as you’ve described one. I think that a scripted story has been so closely associated with RPGs in the past that this is where the confusion comes in. 7 Days is an unscripted RPG where the player creates their own stories as they develop and grow. It’s like reality TV compared to scripted shows. And in PvP you can even “vote someone off the island”...

 

[Phoenixshade35]

One thing i miss and wish was an option was an error before lol, it was back in A16 experimental I believe that once zombies detected you, they followed you across the map till you killed them, it really brought terror and fear at how long would it take for them to get you, i believe you guys were experimenting with the breadcrumb idea, Madmole or Roland, do you think that would be a neat option for people to add to their game at their own whim? I know i would use it, would make clearing areas out more pressing for me, what does everyone else think?

 

[madmole]

I'm assuming blade traps and electric fences will give xp as well?

All but spikes.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

All but spikes.

I HAVE BEEN HEARD BY THE TFP GODS!!!

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?65918-QUESTION-Do-traps-give-you-the-kill-XP-for-zombies

 

[Blake_]

Inconvenience millions of people because you lack no self control? If anything we'll do a startup arg like --nodm so you don't have a console, but by default it will be on.

But of course!. I only ask for the option to completely remove it before the game starts. When creating the new map. Leave it as is for default of course as long as we have the option for NEVER seing the console ever. It never bothered me in Skyriwindblivion. But in this game... well.... CHEESY thoughts when boredom kicks in. And I like my sins as an option.