PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[JaxTeller718]

I think a lot of people are forgetting this game existed BEFORE A17. How quickly we become married to the idea of a bicycle or things of that nature when we have had them for 6 months or so.

Previously the Minibike was the must have item, and it wasn't easy to get for sure. Walking was just fine back then, but now we cant fathom the idea. No one outdrove horde, or if they did horde followed them around something it does not do now. Thats not interesting.

BUT what if we look at the proposed idea of renting a safe spot from the trader. Now THAT is interesting. It gives a game sanctioned way of avoiding BM, at the same time forcing the player to have to scavenge and sell to earn Dukes for the right, or possibly earn rep with a faction.

Take that idea a step further. For servers (of which a lot of people like to bring up as a crutch) think of the gameplay value in that sanctioned system. What if you could make your OWN safe habitat as end game content. So now you can rent your own room to new players, promoting economy and trade. Or set up a town with taxes. Pay the tax, the player can stay. Enabling the safe habitat system would bring a lot of new functionality to vanilla and to modders.

Now isnt that WAY more interesting from a gameplay perspective than just hopping on a bike or jeep and driving aimlessly all night?

 

[Roland]

That's a fair point. And I'm saying nerfing gas to the point people cant use bikes to run from hordes wont work. If gas would be so rare to not let people use bikes against the horde then how can we have enough to travel rwg for looting purposes?
I dont see a solution.

I am a fan of having this game be as popular as possible. And removing playstyles doesn't help that. Maybe TFP dont agree. Maybe they think these moves make the game more popular. I can see that opinion, even if I disagree. Or maybe they dont care about popularity and just want to make the game they want to make. I can respect that.

I dont think anyone is "evil". And I dont think of myself as a "saint" I simply want the game to do as well as possible.

Yes, but I've watched your streams and you enjoy some challenge to the game. You must realize that by supporting those aspects of the game that deliver the challenge you enjoy, you are at the same time denying others who want a more relaxed game. There is no escape from it. Whatever balance is settled upon is going to jar someone in the world the wrong way.

Besides, nobody is saying to make it impossible to run away or drive around all night. It just needs to be similar in risk/cost to renting a room all night for however many dukes. That is just simple balance. I really don't understand how anyone could be against balancing these tactics with each other. Nobody has come out against the room fee idea so since it seems everyone is for that then what is this resistance to balancing the game against that?

Also, I firmly believe that challenge is what drives the popularity of this game. Loopholes and easy buttons seem great on the surface but they lead to fast boredom of the game and then abandonment. Maintaining a challenge for every playstyle is what will keep more people playing the game and that is what I'm fighting for. I am not asking for playstyles to be cut away from the game-- only that each playstyle has its own brand of challenge, risk, and reward.

 

[Roland]

I think a lot of people are forgetting this game existed BEFORE A17. How quickly we become married to the idea of a bicycle or things of that nature when we have had them for 6 months or so.
Previously the Minibike was the must have item, and it wasn't easy to get for sure. Walking was just fine back then, but now we cant fathom the idea. No one outdrove horde, or if they did horde followed them around something it does not do now. Thats not interesting.

BUT what if we look at the proposed idea of renting a safe spot from the trader. Now THAT is interesting. It gives a game sanctioned way of avoiding BM, at the same time forcing the player to have to scavenge and sell to earn Dukes for the right, or possibly earn rep with a faction.

Take that idea a step further. For servers (of which a lot of people like to bring up as a crutch) think of the gameplay value in that sanctioned system. What if you could make your OWN safe habitat as end game content. So now you can rent your own room to new players, promoting economy and trade. Or set up a town with taxes. Pay the tax, the player can stay. Enabling the safe habitat system would bring a lot of new functionality to vanilla and to modders.

Now isnt that WAY more interesting from a gameplay perspective than just hopping on a bike or jeep and driving aimlessly all night?

I think that making your base safe enough to be a safe haven to new players is something you can already do and all it takes is trust to not be betrayed.... I don't think something like trader protection needs to be added to player bases as an end of game status for players to offer their bases as safe zones. But maybe I read you wrong?

 

[Kage848]

I think a lot of people are forgetting this game existed BEFORE A17. How quickly we become married to the idea of a bicycle or things of that nature when we have had them for 6 months or so.
Previously the Minibike was the must have item, and it wasn't easy to get for sure. Walking was just fine back then, but now we cant fathom the idea. No one outdrove horde, or if they did horde followed them around something it does not do now. Thats not interesting.

BUT what if we look at the proposed idea of renting a safe spot from the trader. Now THAT is interesting. It gives a game sanctioned way of avoiding BM, at the same time forcing the player to have to scavenge and sell to earn Dukes for the right, or possibly earn rep with a faction.

Take that idea a step further. For servers (of which a lot of people like to bring up as a crutch) think of the gameplay value in that sanctioned system. What if you could make your OWN safe habitat as end game content. So now you can rent your own room to new players, promoting economy and trade. Or set up a town with taxes. Pay the tax, the player can stay. Enabling the safe habitat system would bring a lot of new functionality to vanilla and to modders.

Now isnt that WAY more interesting from a gameplay perspective than just hopping on a bike or jeep and driving aimlessly all night?

As far as the way the game was before, walking around and stuff. Yea, the game has advanced. Imho, and I'm guessing you disagree, the advancements the game has made has made it a MUCH better game. Why go back to a worse game? I know you dont agree lol, but it's the way I see it.

As far as renting rooms. That's a hell of a cool idea and I'm on board. Now what is the solution to the biking on horde night. Without nerfing my gas supply?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but I've watched your streams and you enjoy some challenge to the game. You must realize that by supporting those aspects of the game that deliver the challenge you enjoy, you are at the same time denying others who want a more relaxed game. There is no escape from it. Whatever balance is settled upon is going to jar someone in the world the wrong way.
Besides, nobody is saying to make it impossible to run away or drive around all night. It just needs to be similar in risk/cost to renting a room all night for however many dukes. That is just simple balance. I really don't understand how anyone could be against balancing these tactics with each other. Nobody has come out against the room fee idea so since it seems everyone is for that then what is this resistance to balancing the game against that?

Also, I firmly believe that challenge is what drives the popularity of this game. Loopholes and easy buttons seem great on the surface but they lead to fast boredom of the game and then abandonment. Maintaining a challenge for every playstyle is what will keep more people playing the game and that is what I'm fighting for. I am not asking for playstyles to be cut away from the game-- only that each playstyle has its own brand of challenge, risk, and reward.

Challenge is subjective. We are veterans. Difficulty creep is a real thing.

Balancing is not easy. I just shoot off at the mouth with opinions. Its TFP that have to balance lol.

 

[Roland]

Challenge is subjective. We are veterans. Difficulty creep is a real thing.

Balancing is not easy. I just shoot off at the mouth with opinions. Its TFP that have to balance lol.

True and we do have to keep in mind new players when balancing. But again, I'm not calling for harder challenge. I'm calling for some challenge...like, at all.

Treading water all night is a current tactic that all the water treaders love and enjoy. Am I saying that TFP should make it so treading water is impossible? No. But I would like it if maybe dogs could swim or if once you run out of stamina you start to sink and drown-- but then make swimming take less stamina so you can a least cross rivers without drowning.

Driving around all night is a current tactic that all drivers love and enjoy. I'm saying bring some challenge to that tactic as well so that people can still do it but it isn't 100% easy button. Not so much challenge that a new player would never be able to pull it off but some challenge so that it is fun enough that maybe someone like me who likes to defend a base might want to switch things up and try a different challenge for one of these nights.

 

[RipClaw]

Treading water all night is a current tactic that all the water treaders love and enjoy. Am I saying that TFP should make it so treading water is impossible? No. But I would like it if maybe dogs could swim or if once you run out of stamina you start to sink and drown-- but then make swimming take less stamina so you can a least cross rivers without drowning.
Driving around all night is a current tactic that all drivers love and enjoy. I'm saying bring some challenge to that tactic as well so that people can still do it but it isn't 100% easy button. Not so much challenge that a new player would never be able to pull it off but some challenge so that it is fun enough that maybe someone like me who likes to defend a base might want to switch things up and try a different challenge for one of these nights.

And how many players are currently swimming during the Horde Night and how many are driving around ? This question was never answered.

 

[RestInPieces]

Also, it shouldn't bother anybody how others play their game. I bet you'll get a lot of comments explaining that you're playing the game "wrong".

I think we agree. The issue is that conversation about a gas nerf was started because others are concerning themselves with how others play the game.

Grow up. Both of you.

If anyone was "bothered" or remotely concerned by how you played the game, they would complain about the dozens of options you already have at your disposal, like cheat mode, disabling hordes etc. That's obviously not the case, none gives a damn, so stop it with the phony self-righteousness, it has consumed much of the forum already.

 

[meganoth]

Now what is the solution to the biking on horde night. Without nerfing my gas supply?

Many ideas were posted in this thread . You would have to read through 16 pages to find them though :distrust:

 

[RipClaw]

Besides, nobody is saying to make it impossible to run away or drive around all night.

That's not true.

If you search the forum you will find posts from players who have suggested that the atmosphere during the horde night should be poisonous and only the lainclaimblock protects one. Or it was suggested that in horde night acid should rain from the sky. Both would have made it virtually impossible to run away.

The current thread was opened with the suggestion that the zombies should run 10x as fast as the player. Even the bike doesn't run 10x as fast as a player can run. The zombies would always catch you. And unlike the player, the zombies do not need stamina or fuel.

You're always talking about risk and reward. How about work and reward ?

If gas is scarce in the game and a player can't ride the bike during the horde night, he can make up for it with work. He can mine oil shale in the desert.

 

[madmole]

:/ Hopefully we can remove this. Id really wouldn't like to know, that I can count on having a stash of ammo waiting for me in every poi, and that I might need to go out of my way sometimes to restock my supply.

Its been confirmed that some POIs are not worth the effort and ammo sink, so they are making adjustments.

 

[madmole]

When you say loot rewritten from scratch, do you mean like via the placement of containers, or in xml?

Everything is reorganized into groups that are governed by a game stage probability template instead of hard coded %'s. So before we deemed pistols and hunting rifles as weak sauce weapons and ak's and smgs as awesome weapons, and hard coded the weak sauce ones to drop frequenty. Now all weapons have an equal chance of their tier to drop and we use loot templates, so adding a new weapon is just adding it to a list that doesn't have any % to think about.

So managing loot won't be as big of a nightmare moving forward, just put things in the right group and you are done.

 

[OzHawkeye]

You're always talking about risk and reward. How about work and reward ?If gas is scarce in the game and a player can't ride the bike during the horde night, he can make up for it with work. He can mine oil shale in the desert.

That'd be an awfully fine edge to have to balance gas on - enough to allow the player to ride around for 6 days of the week, but not enough to allow them to drive around on the 7th.

To be sure, gas is over-abundant at the moment, but to try and balance it to be another "Don't avoid the Horde" mechanism would require some pretty exquisite balancing, akin to dancing on the head of a pin I reckon.

 

[madmole]

Nice change! I also did some materials-based research for my own mod, and it stood out to me that football and mining helmets have been made of plastic since the 1950’s, as are most shopping baskets. Also, cigars should be made of plant fibers.

I fixed those.

 

[madmole]

Sadly it does not work that way at the moment, there are at least two problems that prevent us from doing this.
- We cannot add meshes like you and other devs can, we can add models exported with Unity but those come with their own texture and are model blocks or model entities and thus do not work along with the painting system. I tried importing just a mesh from the mods folder but no luck so far.

- No access to block textures so we cannot add anything or change anything there, not even by supplying it as external assets in the mods folder.

It probably is not a priority of A18 or even A19 but it would be nice if this would be opened up for modders just like importing unity assets and xpath was opened up in A17.

You cannot paint block models or model entities, you need to create a block shape, only those are paintable.

If that doesn't work you'll have to wait for steam workshop.

 

[Tin]

Its been confirmed that some POIs are not worth the effort and ammo sink, so they are making adjustments.

Thank you sir! and let those who are doing the adjustment they have my thanks as well.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I think that making your base safe enough to be a safe haven to new players is something you can already do and all it takes is trust to not be betrayed.... I don't think something like trader protection needs to be added to player bases as an end of game status for players to offer their bases as safe zones. But maybe I read you wrong?

Definitely not making the base 100 percent safe with trader protection. I should expand more on the idea, but more like a player can rent a room and then "re-rent" it to a new player at a cheaper price, or for trade if that new player didnt have enough resources to do so on his own. Thats just a rough idea really and may not even be a doable thing. Then again as you now know us modders (of which we are proud to have you part of) are about doing the impossible.

Perhaps if faction rep becomes a thing, you can earn enough with the Duke to "own" your own room that you can rent to others at a set price you make.

It could even take a few resources. Say you need to upgrade it a bit to activate it, or it has a genny in it that is empty you have to supply the fuel for the night. Lots of ways to expand the idea.

 

[Roland]

That's not true.
If you search the forum you will find posts from players who have suggested that the atmosphere during the horde night should be poisonous and only the lainclaimblock protects one. Or it was suggested that in horde night acid should rain from the sky. Both would have made it virtually impossible to run away.

The current thread was opened with the suggestion that the zombies should run 10x as fast as the player. Even the bike doesn't run 10x as fast as a player can run. The zombies would always catch you. And unlike the player, the zombies do not need stamina or fuel.

You're always talking about risk and reward. How about work and reward ?

If gas is scarce in the game and a player can't ride the bike during the horde night, he can make up for it with work. He can mine oil shale in the desert.

And who are these people making such extreme suggestions? Developers? No.

Please give the devs credit that they know what is too much. Do you really think they are going to poison the air outside your base so you die if you take a few steps away? Come on.

I’m not suggesting 100% death for leaving the base and the devs won’t design such idiocy so please leave such counter examples out of your argument.

The desire is for balanced challenge for each tactic of survival. End of story.

 

[Tin]

Yes, but I've watched your streams and you enjoy some challenge to the game. You must realize that by supporting those aspects of the game that deliver the challenge you enjoy, you are at the same time denying others who want a more relaxed game. There is no escape from it. Whatever balance is settled upon is going to jar someone in the world the wrong way.
Besides, nobody is saying to make it impossible to run away or drive around all night. It just needs to be similar in risk/cost to renting a room all night for however many dukes. That is just simple balance. I really don't understand how anyone could be against balancing these tactics with each other. Nobody has come out against the room fee idea so since it seems everyone is for that then what is this resistance to balancing the game against that?

Also, I firmly believe that challenge is what drives the popularity of this game. Loopholes and easy buttons seem great on the surface but they lead to fast boredom of the game and then abandonment. Maintaining a challenge for every playstyle is what will keep more people playing the game and that is what I'm fighting for. I am not asking for playstyles to be cut away from the game-- only that each playstyle has its own brand of challenge, risk, and reward.

I put out a challenge in guppy's thread. Hopefully someone takes up the challenge and we can see a PoC of what I think may be viable.

Got a PoC challenge for the vehicle gurus on here.

1) Attach a spawn block that is 30-60 meters directly in front of a vehicle that travels with the vehicle.

2) Have the spawn block, spawn zombies every 10 seconds or so.

Bonus:

3) Have the spawn block only active when the vehicle is controlled by the player.

4) Have the spawn block only activate during the night.

Why? just because its something to do and sounds like a cool mechanic (imo).

Edit: Plus it wouldn't remove the ability in using a vehicle to flee, but increase the challenge of doing so.

I also don't think the Gas reduction is going to really do anything, other than extending the time it takes to acquire gas, but won't stop people from being able to stockpile it.

Edit2: Yes I do know that it wouldn't technically be a Block, for the spawn block

 

[madmole]

Animals got some attention this week:
Changed: Improved boss Grace (AI aggressive to players, destroy area, territorial. Slightly smaller. Moves slower. Longer range and more damage)

Changed: Decreased wolf attack delay, range and damage

Changed: Increased dire wolf attack delay, range and damage

Changed: Decreased bear attack range/sphere values

Changed: Reduced bear, boar, canine and vulture hit check delays

Fixed: Mountain Lion ragdoll NRE

Fixed: Mountain Lion neck snap from death anim or ragdoll

Added: Animal leap ability

Changed: Improved Mountain Lion (moves faster, leaps, 3 part jump anim, shorter zombie aggro range)

Changed: Improved AI RunawayFromEntity

Fixed: AI RunawayWhenHurt never triggering with default values

Changed: Timid animals run from hostile animals

Changed: Improved Coyote (attacks chickens and rabbits, short chase times, mostly retreats when taking moderate damage)

Super excited to see all this, great job!

 

[madmole]

Gasoline nerfed? In what way?
How much you can find/make or how fast you burn though it?

You can't find or craft it, its 1000 dukes per ounce.

Followup post for panicked users playing catch-up - CC