PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Roland]

So like a "timer" on a newly places block, to pick it up again like a frame when misplacing it (3 seconds should be enough)

Yeah but those generous pimps will give you 10 times that amount of time.

 

[Scyris]

Yeah but those generous pimps will give you 10 times that amount of time.

30 seconds would be good, after that or if it takes any damage at all it gets locked down.

Also, think you can add a option to the drop on death setting? I have no idea why the game doesn't have a "Drop nothing" option available in the vanilla game (but not default), most games like this have this setting built into the UI if you so choose to set it.

 

[Damocles]

Yeah but those generous pimps will give you 10 times that amount of time.

Too long, and then there is the danger of accidentally picking up blocks unintentionally.

The ability to pick up misplaced blocks should not turn into accidentally making holes.

Especially if the structural integrity could fail then.

A player experienced in building should realize a misplacement within a second. And then have just enough time to react to it.

Alternatively, the game could allow picking up the last 3 placed blocks, until the (longer) timer runs out.

This would also avoid picking up load bearing blocks unintentionally.

And the timer prevents using those blocks as temporary barriers in combat.

 

[ecv]

But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

With the hard to see corner tiles and often not knowing how they would look together, specially in creative builds, either a picking up, or much better previewing before placing would be cool.

Same for accidental upgrades. Few things get me raging than an accidental steel upgrade I then need to hack down for a minute. Upgrade lock for blocks or a downgrade tool. You can keep the resources

 

[Kalex]

But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

Flat roof using blocks not a sloped roof using wedges.

 

[FA_Q2]

But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

I think he means he uses the wood blocks as a permanent roof. I do too but from what you are saying we would still be able to do so and if not, using flagstone is just as easy.

 

[Crater Creator]

It sounds like more blocks could just behave like wet concrete, only weaker and faster-drying.

 

[vosszaa]

Just checked the shape menu video, as a builder I gotta say I'm excited BUT when are we gonna have the inner/inverted corner blocks? Especially the stairs block.. PLEEEEEASE!!!

 

[Endy Gainer]

Flat roof using blocks not a sloped roof using wedges.

So... even simpler, then?

 

[The Gronk]

Well that would make the system more robust for designers, which I'm never opposed to. In fact that variable may already be implemented, since doors are weighted differently than other blocks.
But in practice, I don't see why HP and path weight wouldn't be coupled. Zombies take the path of least resistance, and generally their only mechanism to get past an obstruction on that path is to destroy it. Ergo, the amount of resistance is the hit points of the blocks involved.

Damage to block HP and the material the block is made of should adjust the weight of pathing but really shouldn't be the basis of it. Making block HP the basis of pathing means you have to make the HP of wildly different blocks the same and mumble something about it being better for balance when questioned about it. It's like trying to drive a car by looking at the streetlights above you, it's possible but not the best way to go about it.

The only difference between a door and any other block is that the HP is halved for anything tagged as a door when it comes to calculating the path.

 

[Scavengers_son]

Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.

They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

 

[Sirillion]

Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.
They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

Oooo, this sounds interesting!

So some kind of air block with a ghost of the shape you want to build?

This could be really good actually, maybe with a new architect tool thingy with the shape selector as a radial menu?

 

[Crater Creator]

Damage to block HP and the material the block is made of should adjust the weight of pathing but really shouldn't be the basis of it. Making block HP the basis of pathing means you have to make the HP of wildly different blocks the same and mumble something about it being better for balance when questioned about it.

It does? Why? Where is HP-based pathing going to break if different blocks have different HPs?

I simply don't follow your logic of why path weight = block HP (except for special cases like doors, as mentioned) means that wildly different blocks need the same HP. Unless you're rejecting the underlying premise of A17 pathing, that zombies 'just know' the path of least resistance... but it doesn't sound like you're making that argument.

 

[NinjaMoa]

Alternatively, the game could allow picking up the last 3 placed blocks, until the (longer) timer runs out.This would also avoid picking up load bearing blocks unintentionally.

And the timer prevents using those blocks as temporary barriers in combat.

That would also decrease the server load, timers are cheap but you can place a lot of blocks in 30 seconds.

And MP would make it even worse.

 

[Scavengers_son]

So some kind of air block with a ghost of the shape you want to build?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I believe it should work quite nicely with the new shape selector.

Surely, there's still the issue of what happens with unbuilt plan blocks left floating around the world. Perhaps they might be automatically deleted at logout, or after some days have passed. Despawning them should be straightforward since they should not be included in any integrity calculations.

Also, should they be visible to all players? For sake of simplicity and streamline, I'd say yes.

Then there's the issue of blueprint conflicts. Can players remove each other's plans? Maybe, at least if they are on the same team, and not inside unfriendly claim zone.

Placing another block inside an existing plan block could work like how grass works now. If you place any block on a ground block with grass, then the grass is just removed and replaced with the placed block.

If the concept of blueprint blocks still seems too complicated, I believe there still might be block clutter savings to be made by replacing wood and rebar frames with single kind of generic frame blocks, that could be used to produce blocks of any suitable material.

 

[The Gronk]

It does? Why? Where is HP-based pathing going to break if different blocks have different HPs?
I simply don't follow your logic of why path weight = block HP (except for special cases like doors, as mentioned) means that wildly different blocks need the same HP. Unless you're rejecting the underlying premise of A17 pathing, that zombies 'just know' the path of least resistance... but it doesn't sound like you're making that argument.

The great Mole was right when he said you can exploit that system in some scenarios, I'm pretty certain that's why it was changed to everything having the same HP. As has also been pointed out you can also exploit the current system in some scenarios. This really is the wrong way to approach this problem.

The AI would target your half blocks and it would create a weird exploit.

I really don't think that zombies should be structural engineers at all, they should path using their (limited) senses. Unfortunately that's how it has to be when your pathing AI is using the best technology 1968 has to offer.

 

[Guppycur]

But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

Yeh. Challenging things are fun.

 

[Shineblossom]

As for the saw table, that thing should go the way of the dino's I've never noticed anyone really ever making one or using it. Especially when you consider wood is bascally useless vs zombies.

Never used catwalks? Also, it looks as cool feature, having it in workshop. Looks pretty. Shine likes pretty.

Whether or not just turning on all the traps and letting them run all night is "proper," my expectation would still be that if a player does do that, the load on the system would depend on how many entities it was damaging at the moment. Then there'd be an increasing danger of overloading the system as the zombies get tougher and engage your traps longer and more often.

I would agree with this IF. If we could make one big grid. Not having one solar pannel connected to one battery bank, which, when fully slotted with purple panels, can run only on.. How much was it? 175V? (180-5 for the battery charging). The way it is now this would get >>extremelly<< annoying and impractical.

Make them even cheaper to make than they are. Early game wood is very important so right now a lot of players just camp in a poi or go straight to flagstone.

A lot of players also builds from Flagstones because it is just so simple to get. I don't even care about saving wood early, it is just so much better to build straight away from "higher tier" blocks, since they are extremelly easy to come by.

folks if you want easier horde nights just turn off horde nights or lower the in game difficulty to its lowest setting. I mean if people want to build large complex buildings and other just stuff go into creative or if you don't want creative then turn off horde night and put the game at its easiest setting and I can't remember if this is in the settings or not but lower zombie block damage to its lowest setting also.

I do want horde nights. I do like my high difficulty settings. I do not like looting POI that has 1 SMG, 1 shotgun and 100 bullets after i spent 700 bullets on even getting to loot room because every single zombie is radiated tank.

 

[Roland]

Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.
They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

Can you stand on these ghost blocks?

 

[Scavengers_son]

Can you stand on these ghost blocks?

No. They are purely conceptual, so they have no collision detection (other than detecting the ray cast of the construction tool). That means you'd have to climb on a scaffold to place them on top of each other, just like you would with frames. Well, with the exception that you can walk on frames, of course.