PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  • A18 Stable is Out!

    Votes: 2 66.7%
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    Votes: 1 33.3%

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Yes, I understand the proposed system. You asked why I said 100% animal zombies as opposed to having any regular animals at all, this was the reply. If it's all about the risk factor, you would want it that way anyway.
A slight variety in outcomes is welcome even in looking for a way to increase tension or risk in gameplay.

The rational behind your proposal could be applied to all the aggressive wildlife in the game but I think the way it is is more interesting from a risk reward perspective.

 
Scyris prognosticated that food and water would never be hard to get. If we accept his assessment for the sake of argument, then what do survivalists have to look forward to in Alpha 18?
Look at what we've heard from Madmole so far in talking about his playthroughs. There's plenty of food. You don't need to make a farm. New recipes mean more ways to stay well fed. New weapons and perks make hunting easier. The weather is still placeholder, i.e. deliberately disabled at the start. Infection is still broken. And it's like a Bethesda game in more ways than ever.

What we haven't heard from Madmole, at least as I can recall, is any mention of being in a struggle for survival. And he's doing several different playthroughs, so he's experiencing the early game multiple times. The impression I'm getting is that his mindset is increasingly to take the teeth out of the survival elements, so that they don't get in the way of building and quests and looting and other things that may be subjectively more fun.

And to be clear:

  • This isn't about the 1,000-hour players being bored and wanting a reinvented wheel. Good survival mechanics should present challenges beyond those that come with being inexperienced with the game, in my view.
  • This isn't about the game getting 'too easy' overall. It could be that the Demolisher will make maintaining a base enormously difficult compared to what we're used to... but base building isn't the same as survival.
  • Merely not getting killed by zombies isn't properly 'survival,' either. There are a huge number of games where you try not to get killed as a result of enemy engagements. Only some are survival games, because it takes more than that to earn the moniker.
When bandits are added in, the tension gamefeel expected from a survival game will be apparent again at later game stages. The game starts with the stress of not enough resources and fighting the elements. Later it could be about managing the consequences of a deprived world (bandits and other preditors) knowing the player is a source of plenty. It becomes a Game of holding on to what one has to avoid starting over. Bandits will take the things beyond food that make a player currently feel invincible at "end game".

The Walking Dead has been talked about as a source of inspiration. The cycle of not enough and desperately holding on is evident throughout the show.

Currently, the first week or two and the management of heat are the best examples of this cycle. Generally too much heat is a mid, end game tension.

 
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What we haven't heard from Madmole, at least as I can recall, is any mention of being in a struggle for survival. And he's doing several different playthroughs, so he's experiencing the early game multiple times. The impression I'm getting is that his mindset is increasingly to take the teeth out of the survival elements, so that they don't get in the way of building and quests and looting and other things that may be subjectively more fun.
Let's ask a different question. How would you envision the ideal 7 Days for survivalists? What challenges would the player face and how would you make sure he doesn't lose interest too quickly?

 
What I meant was you wouldn't like it in the current framework that we need to change so that you can abort a reload and be allowed to change weapons.
ah I get it now. Im ok with what works but if itd take a whole redo of the weapon system and you arent willing to do that or itd take a whole nother year+ then fine.

 
Let's ask a different question. How would you envision the ideal 7 Days for survivalists? What challenges would the player face and how would you make sure he doesn't lose interest too quickly?
Ill pitch in just because I was actually contemplating this yesterday. I like to explore new ideas.

I feel, that the wellnes system that was implemented before perks - you would increase it by eating high quality food, lose on death - was pretty good. Death had serious consequences. However, biggest problem was, that you could end up with 50hp 50stam, which for people that died a lot was big deterrence. I would reintroduce this mechanic, but after death, you would never go under 100/100. You could still gradually increase your wellness up to 200/200.

There are now two caps to stamina and health - soft cap and hard cap:

Soft stamina cap - works like in alpha 17. You mine, run etc, it decreases. You eat - it increases.

Soft health cap - works like in alpha 17. You bleed, get hit, break limbs etc, it decreases. You heal with bandage, splint, med kit - it increases.

Hard cap is increased only via wellness and is no longer governed by agility/fortitude.

Currently, killing animals is way too easy. I can just walk right to a pig and one shot him with stealth bonus. Same with deer. I would implement it, so there would be high chance to spawn vultures and/or dogs on animal kill- depending on gamestage. Boars are more agressive and will charge player (which I mean charge as run really really fast) if they get close. Deers are more shy, and will register player from further distance, and run away. Without using stealth, or sniper rifle, you cannot get close to deer. Bear is much less likely to attack, but his speed is increased, so player can never outrun him. His hit poins are increased. You can only kill bear with some serious firepower.

Sealed shamway boxes ALWAYS contain canned food.

Vending machines use prewar cash and do not respawn food every day.

Removing living of the land perk. Harvesting plant always produce two items. Seeds are crafted from single food item instead of four. Time to grow crop is much longer.

*this part would apply only if spoilage was introduced*

Meat needs to be preserved. Four stages:

Salted meat - downside - cooked meals dehydratate

Smoked meat - downside - cooked meals increase wellness less (needs building smoker)

Refridgirated meat - no downsides, but the food still spoils, but slower.

Frozen meat - meat can ve stored indefinitely, but largely increase the cook time. (Cannot be crafted, must be either bought, or find in some high lvl PoI)

Canned meat - lasts indefinitely, but decrease wellness gained from food. (canning station can be found at the end of tier 5 PoI shamway factory)

salted, smoked and refrigirated can be combined for longer even slower spoilage, but negatives stack too.

Quality of prepared dish depends on crafting station used. 3 tiers:

1.campfire

2.stove - perk: does not consume wood, only power.

3.crockpot - perk: much better wellness gained, but takes a lot of time to cook.

Recipes that require meat can use ration cans (beef, chicken, lamb), so you dont really need to hunt and bother with spoilage, if you dont want. However, those cans are more rare, than getting meat from animal.

Cooked meal now spoil within one ingame day. The wellness and health from them decrease down to half.

Cooked meals do not stack.

Microwave can be used once to push back the decay by fixed ammount.

There is limit to how much wellness you can get in a day.

All cooked meal now give various long term buffs - around 30 minutes long. They are also the only way (aside from vitamins) that increase wellness.

Various canned foods can give food better properties or buffs. - increased stats, bigger block damage, bigger damage, better aim, bigger luck looting etc. For example, you put in meat, potato and fat. That would give you steak and potatoes. Say that would increase your STR by 1 for 1 hour. But you add there a can of peaches and Boom! +10%movements speed to add to that. important is, that the buffs are meaningful and impactful enough, that you FEEL more powerful, than when without them. All this hassle needs to be WELL worth it.

You can only have on meal buff. (steak and potatoes, vegetable stew etc.)

You can only have one desert buff. (blueberry pie, tyramisu, cake(is a lie))

You can only have one drink buff. (coffe, tea, yucca juice)

So once you exit your home the next day, you are all buffed up and ready to kick ass.

 
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Scyris prognosticated that food and water would never be hard to get. If we accept his assessment for the sake of argument, then what do survivalists have to look forward to in Alpha 18?
Look at what we've heard from Madmole so far in talking about his playthroughs. There's plenty of food. You don't need to make a farm. New recipes mean more ways to stay well fed. New weapons and perks make hunting easier. The weather is still placeholder, i.e. deliberately disabled at the start. Infection is still broken. And it's like a Bethesda game in more ways than ever.

What we haven't heard from Madmole, at least as I can recall, is any mention of being in a struggle for survival. And he's doing several different playthroughs, so he's experiencing the early game multiple times. The impression I'm getting is that his mindset is increasingly to take the teeth out of the survival elements, so that they don't get in the way of building and quests and looting and other things that may be subjectively more fun.

And to be clear:

  • This isn't about the 1,000-hour players being bored and wanting a reinvented wheel. Good survival mechanics should present challenges beyond those that come with being inexperienced with the game, in my view.
  • This isn't about the game getting 'too easy' overall. It could be that the Demolisher will make maintaining a base enormously difficult compared to what we're used to... but base building isn't the same as survival.
  • Merely not getting killed by zombies isn't properly 'survival,' either. There are a huge number of games where you try not to get killed as a result of enemy engagements. Only some are survival games, because it takes more than that to earn the moniker.
Probably about the same as 17 in the survival department, but a little harder. Nests have been thinned. Zombies are harder because of the speed boost, but that is combat not so much survival, but it does add to the mix, because if your recovering from death you aren't progressing as you normally would, your spending time getting your gear and losing a good part of a day doing it.

I've completed most of my work, so its possible I could get infection fixed for A18 yet and possibly do weather yet, but not sure because the new designs require some support from others.

Some of our testers have had difficulty finding enough food or a cooking pot, and Rick who's not so fluent in the game got in the death loop on our MP game. He had no food or stamina to try and get any. It's a fine line between easy and frustrating depending on the sheer random factors this game has. Food is no problem if you are an adventurous type. Spend a few hours mining and building and your reserves dry up very fast.

 
continuing from my previous post in regards to enviroment

1st tier - forest and burned forest

2nd tier - desert and tundra

3rd tier - wasteland

1st tier would be as is now, forest being essentially a biome, where you live, does not have much enviromental hazards.

2nd tier, the temperatures will kill you off very quickly, if you do not have proper clothing. Clothing will only prolong the enevitable. You cannot stay in those biomes indefinitely without base. Occasionally, you will need to find shelter, make fire or find water to cooldown. Tundra will have plenty of aggresive wildlife, that will start hunting you, if you stay there for long. Desert have snakes, that decrease your wellness with every bite. Your wellness also decreases if you overheat too much. But! These biomes have higher chance for good loot, more food in cupboards and fridges. Better higher lvl PoIs (tier IV) are also present for higher tier quests, whereas in forest they are not. You

3rd tier is merciless place, that just wants to kill you. Higher chance of wandering ferals, random mines, zombie dogs, vultures. The best PoIs (lvl 5) can be found here and have the highest chance for good loot. But odds of survival are slim, if you are not prepared.

You always start in forest biome.

 
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Ill pitch in just because I was actually contemplating this yesterday. I like to explore new ideas.
I feel, that the wellnes system that was implemented before perks - you would increase it by eating high quality food, lose on death - was pretty good. Death had serious consequences. However, biggest problem was, that you could end up with 50hp 50stam, which for people that died a lot was big deterrence.
I kind of stopped reading a bit after the "death had serious consequences". Hard to take that seriously. Wellness as a concept had merit - however, no, its implementation didn't make death consequential in no way - in fact, death was beneficial.

Minimum was not 50/50, it was 70/70 and 120/120 with perks which were easily acquired. 120 health was more than enough in the highest difficulties and 120 stamina didn't hinder you in the least in your activities.

So:

-Being killed was more of a positive thing than it was negative, as it did reset status that might actually hinder you and you being teleported was more convenient than inconvenient for the majority of the situations.

-The point of wellness was to make you harder to kill - that was all it offered.

-Since being killed was not really something negative and wellness made you harder to kill, wellness was rather meaningless.

Which is why it was scrapped. If low wellness was connected with a death penalty and status didn't reset, only then would we be able to talk about consequences. And adding more kinds of caps won't make any difference.

Zombies are harder because of the speed boost
Please make sure that zombies are faster than player sprint in the nightmare speed setting! It will be a great option for players who want zombies to be unavoidable in certain situations!

 
I kind of stopped reading a bit after the "death had serious consequences". Hard to take that seriously. Wellness as a concept had merit - however, no, its implementation didn't make death consequential in no way - in fact, death was beneficial.
Minimum was not 50/50, it was 70/70 and 120/120 with perks which were easily acquired. 120 health was more than enough in the highest difficulties and 120 stamina didn't hinder you in the least in your activities.

So:

-Being killed was more of a positive thing than it was negative, as it did reset status that might actually hinder you and you being teleported was more convenient than inconvenient for the majority of the situations.

-The point of wellness was to make you harder to kill - that was all it offered. In my mind however, you could not increase your lowest wellness under 100.

-Since being killed was not really something negative and wellness made you harder to kill, wellness was rather meaningless.

Which is why it was scrapped. If low wellness was connected with a death penalty and status didn't reset, only then would we be able to talk about consequences. And adding more kinds of caps won't make any difference.

Please make sure that zombies are faster than player sprint in the nightmare speed setting! It will be a great option for players who want zombies to be unavoidable in certain situations!
I do agree, that i some cases, like when you are in base and have for example broken leg, killing yourself when you were on bottom of wellness made sense. However, I dont really focus in my ideas on the death penalty. Maybe you should actually read what I write before jumping to conclusions.

 
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Some of our testers have had difficulty finding enough food or a cooking pot, and Rick who's not so fluent in the game got in the death loop on our MP game. He had no food or stamina to try and get any. It's a fine line between easy and frustrating depending on the sheer random factors this game has. Food is no problem if you are an adventurous type. Spend a few hours mining and building and your reserves dry up very fast.
The base gamelevel should have potential new players in mind, so I agree on these thoughts. We have game difficulty settings to accomodate the long term players. Good point, mole

 
I do agree, that i some cases, like when you are in base and have for example broken leg, killing yourself when you were on bottom of wellness made sense. However, I dont really focus in my ideas on the death penalty. Maybe you should actually read what I write before jumping to conclusions.
Maybe you should try pointing out which conclusion I jumped to, that didn't do justice to what you wrote.

Or was the following a product of my imagination?

I feel, that the wellnes system that was implemented before perks - you would increase it by eating high quality food, lose on death - was pretty good. Death had serious consequences. However, biggest problem was, that you could end up with 50hp 50stam, which for people that died a lot was big deterrence.
 
SURVIVAL: PVP

if you want true survival join a pvp server. There is no better feel for the game knowing at any giving moment you can take someone's stuff or have yours taken. It really doesn't matter what they do in a18 they are not taking away the pvp aspect side of the game that is all that matters, as long as players have the ability to kill each other "true survival" well always be there.

While PvE players are trying to contend with just killing zombies | PvP players are doing the same plus dealing with other players. Makes a huge difference in survival.

 
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Some of our testers have had difficulty finding enough food or a cooking pot, and Rick who's not so fluent in the game got in the death loop on our MP game. He had no food or stamina to try and get any. It's a fine line between easy and frustrating depending on the sheer random factors this game has. Food is no problem if you are an adventurous type. Spend a few hours mining and building and your reserves dry up very fast.
How about giving a method out of the death spiral that just takes A LOT OF time?

For example:

Resting on your own bedroll doing absolutely nothing (not even crafting) gives back stamina and max health, but that regeneration either starts only after 8 hours of this or starts from zero and increases very slowly.

You would get the buff immediately when on your bedroll (and the description of the buff would explain what happens). The journal also could give a hint that if you get into this situation that you could do this for the price of wasting a lot of time.

 
SURVIVAL: PVP
if you want true survival join a pvp server. There is no better feel for the game knowing at any giving moment you can take someone's stuff or have yours taken. It really doesn't matter what they do in a18 they are not taking away the pvp aspect side of the game that is all that matters, as long as players have the ability to kill each other "true survival" well always be there.

While PvE players are trying to contend with just killing zombies | PvP players are doing the same plus dealing with other players. Makes a huge difference in survival.
It really doesn't matter how much you praise PvP, I'm happy that it exists for you but I will never do it. Too many cheaters AND too many young people around with too good reflexes, a better resolution on their $500 GPU and eagle eyes, that I would just be cannon fodder. There is no way to play on equal footing. I get it that you need more easy victims around, but no thanks :cocksure:

 
It really doesn't matter how much you praise PvP, I'm happy that it exists for you but I will never do it. Too many cheaters AND too many young people around with too good reflexes, a better resolution on their $500 GPU and eagle eyes, that I would just be cannon fodder. There is no way to play on equal footing. I get it that you need more easy victims around, but no thanks :cocksure:
I think Pimps will take care of people like us by keep improving balance, adding more weapons and stuff.

..by taking care I mean improving our experience, not evaporation. :)

 
I think Pimps will take care of people like us by keep improving balance, adding more weapons and stuff.
..by taking care I mean improving our experience, not evaporation. :)
yup... good things getter better with age... i just wished i was one of them :(

 
The matter of diseases & debuffs

Nothing else to do on the forums besides wait for another video and come up with Ideas so... :fat:

Diseases/Debuffs can be group by category:

- Combat

- Food

- Weather

- Environmental

Each will have a way to cure besides waiting it out, that way you can be proactive about getting better instead of passive. Some you can wait it out if you have no choice, cause choice = good gameplay.

1. Combat - Broken legs, infection, broken arms, concussions, bleed, ragdoll dizzy effect, internal hemorrhage, broken ribs stamina debuff, gut punch nausea effect; vomit food loss of max stamina, poisoning, rabies, gunshot wound, burns.

2. Food - Tapeworm; less effective food debuff, food poisoning, vomiting, dysentery to cholera, listeria; slow attack/mining/reloading debuff, hepatitis A; slashes your max stamina and health by half, alcohol poisoning.

3. Weather - cold to flu to pneumonia, hypothermia, heat cramp, heat exhaustion, heat stroke, hyperthermia, heat rash, sunburn, frost bite.

4. Environmental - broken legs from fall, knockout/concussion from stuff falling on your head, bleed; shrapnel from explosions, typoid fever from swimming while in a weakened state, chemical flu from toxic fumes/chemicals, burns, shocks, radiation.

Just spit balling here, these effects should all be preventable and balanced so as not to become annoying (bleed right now, stun lock A16). Most importantly is that you can cure yourself with items/activities/environments. Some diseases will get worse overtime and some will cure themselves but take along time, so it'd be in the players best interest to be proactive.

Also I'm not saying we need all these, these just some ideas on the subject.

 
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