PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Melthe]

Yes, to me I get that feeling I had IRL going from rags to riches all over again by turning an impossible situation into a life of luxury by buidling an epic fort with non functional nor needed luxuries. Like building pools and fancy fireplaces and tables / chairs, carpets, granite countertops on nice cupboards, fancy beds, etc just is a big finger to the zombie apocalypse that feels rewarding later game. I'm not just surviving, I'm thriving.
I'm pushing to get collectable objects in instead of all this nonsense crafting for 19+. Hold R for a radial menu, then get a take timer on coffee pots, microwaves, fridges etc. If you want a fancy bar with red barstools, you find them in the wasteland and collect them one by one. The timer is so you can't just delete a level designer barricade in 3 seconds or grab a couch for instant cover.

In fallout 4 I built a highway mega base that had modded elevators to get to it, and it had all the neon lights of a bar, swimming pool, restrooms showers, dance floor etc. It was like 100 hours down the toilet but it was cool AF. I used the OCD decorator mod where you collect the actual pieces and can place them as statics so they don't fall over etc. I think it felt rewarding collecting stuff versus just crafting everything. I wanted nice shiny plates so I had to find them most plates in the game were filthy. I feel like 7 days players could have a feather in their cap for building a cooler base this way and expose more models for use if they were collected decorations rather than just craft them.

This sounds amazing. In A16 I built several underground bunkers that had several bedrooms, kitchen, multiple bathrooms, Living room with a storage vault. I have missed a bunch of the furniture we could build just for astetics. I have been sticking with stilt towers with multiple levels and a rooftop garden so far in A17. I enjoy the building aspects of the game the most and love to decorate my base as a luxury home not just a base to hide in.

 

[madmole]

Occlusion is working? Is there decent gains with it?

The general consensus is, yes. There are situations where its probably breaking even, could even be slower (unlikely) but others where its clearly working (Im in my fort getting, mining, inside a well sealed up POI and getting 60 fps)

This combined with the incremental garbage collector has 18 feeling significantly smoother. The level design guys are optimizing POIs which will be the next big return.

 

[Dimpy]

Where did complexity come from? Neither the post of yours that I responded to nor my post mentioned complexity. You said harvesting in STR prevented miners from diversifying. I said you can say the same thing wherever you put harvesting. I’m not arguing complexity, I’m arguing that your statement doesn’t hold water and it still doesn’t.

So you're saying that moving Miner69er and Mother Lode to another perk category won't help any balance problems?

I agree :smile-new:

It sounded like you were trying to conflate the role of lucky looter and salvage operations in looting to the role of miner69er and mother lode in building.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

The general consensus is, yes. There are situations where its probably breaking even, could even be slower (unlikely) but others where its clearly working (Im in my fort getting, mining, inside a well sealed up POI and getting 60 fps)
This combined with the incremental garbage collector has 18 feeling significantly smoother. The level design guys are optimizing POIs which will be the next big return.

Wow! Great news! I'm happy to know that.

Maybe you could showcase your new occlusion system for voxel worlds in a video, it would be super interesting.

 

[Star69]

So you're saying that moving Miner69er and Mother Lode to another perk category won't help any balance problems? I agree :smile-new:

It sounded like you were trying to conflate the role of lucky looter and salvage operations in looting to the role of miner69er and mother lode in building.

You really should read my post carefully. Since the perk system was completely re-done, I don’t even know if miner or motherlode are still perks. I’m not arguing for anything since I found out it’s completely redesigned. I made my issues known with A17 perks in another thread and they had nothing to do with strength and mm has said that was being dealt with. You said harvesting in STR prevents miners from diversifying. The point I made is that it could be said for each perk category if harvesting was in another perk category. I used looters as an example but it applies to all the perk categories. If harvesting doesn’t go in STR, where would you put it and then what perk from that category would you move to STR? The number of perks in each category are equal so if you move harvesting out, you have to put something in its place. TFP decided, from all the available perks, harvesting is the best choice for STR from the available options and keeping perk numbers

 

[agrastiOs]

New food models and good animations sound good.

Is the smell completely off the table or just for A18?

 

[FA_Q2]

Right, I'm not real keen on the idea. There are lots of intersting mod ideas, like extra seats, storage, paint, more torque uphill, Armor, gas performance, etc.

SPEED! I WANT SPEED

Can we add this:

/joke

I mean, the rocket pack (cant remember exactly what it was called) is a BLAST to play around with.

 

[FA_Q2]

I start with a tower, then a keep, then etc etc because if your tower is overrun you have nowhere to go. A tower is easier to defend but if you fail you have no fallback option.

Crazy talk. you have the absolute best place to fall back on - UP. Iron bar ceilings are in zed nightmares

- - - Updated - - -

No, unmined surfaces are just a top mesh of triangles with nothing underneath. Occlusion is working now, and when you are deep enough in a mine you aren't rendering anything in the world above you now.

That would mean that mining deep no longer has to worry about diggers. How deep is deep enough?

- - - Updated - - -

Why does "home" have to equal "horde base"? You can have it all by building a nice aesthetically pleasing home that you live in 6 days of the week...

That cheapens the base for me. It is a cheap tactic IMHO to put all of your crap in a magically invulnerable location just because you are 50 feet away in a sea of spikes. I want them combined no matter how much more difficult that makes my defense.

That is just me of course - not saying anyone else should operate under such a silly restriction

 

[Dimpy]

You said harvesting in STR prevents miners from diversifying.

I said it discouraged builders from diversifying. The distinction is really significant.

The point I made is that it could be said for each perk category if harvesting was in another perk category. I used looters as an example but it applies to all the perk categories. If harvesting doesn’t go in STR, where would you put it and then what perk from that category would you move to STR? The number of perks in each category are equal so if you move harvesting out, you have to put something in its place. TFP decided, from all the available perks, harvesting is the best choice for STR from the available options and keeping perk numbers

I agree that strength is the best place for the harvesting perks. My personal solution is not to move the STR harvesting perks, or remove them, but to give each attribute a perk(s) that also helps with the process of building somehow to balance out the harvesting perks. Something like better SI, less heat generation, stronger walls, new defenses with some special gimmick, faster construction.

 

[Drithyl]

That would mean that mining deep no longer has to worry about diggers. How deep is deep enough?

I think it only applies to the graphical rendering of voxels, but zombies and other systems should remain functional.

 

[Grue]

but, but, BEER is Nectar of the Gods!

I'm surprised they didn't add pemmican yet.

<recipe name="foodPemmican" count="1" craft_area="campfire" craft_tool="toolCookingPot" tags="learnable">

<ingredient name="foodMeat" count="5"/>

<ingredient name="foodAnimaFat" count="1"/>

<ingredient name="foodHoney" count="1"/>

</recipe>

My take on Pemmican. Mostly fat, a little meat and honey for flavor.

 

[Grue]

Burrito Recipe:<recipe name="foodBurrito" count="1" craft_area="campfire" craft_tool="toolCookingGrill" tags="learnable">

<ingredient name="foodRawMeat" count="5"/>

<ingredient name="foodCropPotato" count="1"/>

<ingredient name="foodCanChili" count="1"/>

<ingredient name="foodCropCorn" count="1"/>

<ingredient name="foodCornMeal" count="3"/>

</recipe>

You need to add a separate tortilla recipe to have some reason to use corn.

THEN you make the burrito, or enchiladas etc.

From SS (Just Survive, Somehow) by @mjrice

<recipe name="Tortillas" count="2" craft_area="campfire" craft_tool="toolCookingPot">

<ingredient name="foodCornMeal" count="2"/> <!-- 10 corn plants = 2 tortillas -->

<ingredient name="drinkJarBoiledWater" count="1"/>

<ingredient name="resourceAnimalFat" count="1"/>

</recipe>

 

[FA_Q2]

I think it only applies to the graphical rendering of voxels, but zombies and other systems should remain functional.

I doubt that. Almost universally, something that is not rendered is non-functional. Workstations get around this because they are not interacting with the world - counters are easy to progress even if the parent object is not rendered. It is usually a different story with actors that need to engage with the world itself. Deep minning is already safe past 40m but this is currently due to zed pathing as far as I am aware - they will not path more than 40 m - and therefore can change any time the pathing changes.

I could be wrong of course. I am sure someone will correct me

 

[sillls]

Oh Great! Now we won't hear from Snowdog for a good 3 months....

What are you talking about? lol

 

[Aldranon]

To get their xp? I kill everything I see, to make the world a better post apocalypse.

Now if there was a number that represented all the zombies remaining on the map, 10,000... 100,000... any number. Then I would be there hacking and slashing with you.

Currently, gaining xp with no useable loot or resources is like sacrificing yourself to the GameStage gods.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

You need to add a separate tortilla recipe to have some reason to use corn. THEN you make the burrito, or enchiladas etc.

From SS (Just Survive, Somehow) by @mjrice

<recipe name="Tortillas" count="2" craft_area="campfire" craft_tool="toolCookingPot">

<ingredient name="foodCornMeal" count="2"/> <!-- 10 corn plants = 2 tortillas -->

<ingredient name="drinkJarBoiledWater" count="1"/>

<ingredient name="resourceAnimalFat" count="1"/>

</recipe>

Yeah, that's how I would prefer to do it, but I was keeping it simple because that seems to be the trend.

 

[Ti2xGr]

Will we be able to sit in the chairs in A20? My feet are getting tired of standing all the time except for when I'm driving. I want to sit down on my back deck and drink a beer and watch the blood moon rise and maybe snipe a zombie or two at the same time. More stability from shooting from the sitting position, but a bit wobbly from the beer....hmmm

 

[kamer1337]

Meh. The garage door was in the game long before the 4x4 so...Minor issue really. If they dont add a 5 wide door for the 4x4 a modder will eventually (if they havent already)

new garage door already exist, you can find it in creative menu

 

[Shineblossom]

Yes, to me I get that feeling I had IRL going from rags to riches all over again by turning an impossible situation into a life of luxury by buidling an epic fort with non functional nor needed luxuries. Like building pools and fancy fireplaces and tables / chairs, carpets, granite countertops on nice cupboards, fancy beds, etc just is a big finger to the zombie apocalypse that feels rewarding later game. I'm not just surviving, I'm thriving.
I'm pushing to get collectable objects in instead of all this nonsense crafting for 19+. Hold R for a radial menu, then get a take timer on coffee pots, microwaves, fridges etc. If you want a fancy bar with red barstools, you find them in the wasteland and collect them one by one. The timer is so you can't just delete a level designer barricade in 3 seconds or grab a couch for instant cover.

In fallout 4 I built a highway mega base that had modded elevators to get to it, and it had all the neon lights of a bar, swimming pool, restrooms showers, dance floor etc. It was like 100 hours down the toilet but it was cool AF. I used the OCD decorator mod where you collect the actual pieces and can place them as statics so they don't fall over etc. I think it felt rewarding collecting stuff versus just crafting everything. I wanted nice shiny plates so I had to find them most plates in the game were filthy. I feel like 7 days players could have a feather in their cap for building a cooler base this way and expose more models for use if they were collected decorations rather than just craft them.

Looting decorative stuff would be just perfect! It would add a sense of accomplishment to a base, more than just put a few blocks down. But the first issue still stands - We can't really make a big base as of now, where it would fit perfectly It is nice to be able to live fancy. Even in post-apo. Well, not even in post-apo. Especially in post-apo.

I mean: do we really need ovens, fridges, coolers?, but then again, when NPCs are a thing, we DO need those things for the sake of cohesion/coherence/colagen/cohort/etc.

Well, we still do need them as decorational blocks that are in POIs and to make base feel more like home.

That spelling has a different connotation, unless you meant...
Oh.

Ohhhh.

Real bases have curves, not... *cough*

That cheapens the base for me. It is a cheap tactic IMHO to put all of your crap in a magically invulnerable location just because you are 50 feet away in a sea of spikes. I want them combined no matter how much more difficult that makes my defense.
That is just me of course - not saying anyone else should operate under such a silly restriction

Another reason for having a big nice base that feels like home

 

[beHypE]

Why would people think we are desperate to slow the game down further to give 2000 hour guys a challenge? Our goal with A18 is a smooth landing with potato's rejoicing, not the fps is still in the ♥♥♥♥ter.

Wut. Not even close to having 2K hours to be honest, but anyone with basic FPS skills can just walk into any big city on Day 1 with a wooden bow and be perfectly fine, especially with vanilla settings - and that seems off to me. But hey, I guess a mean no is as good an answer as any, i'll just take it for what it is, no biggie.

As a side note, you seem kinda edgy about the fact people here discuss the same stuff over and over again... but then again, absolutely nothing besides you posting stuff is paving the way for interesting discussions (pics, videos, art concepts...). Can't be complaining about pages and pages of the same stuff when there hasn't been any bone thrown at us for months.

No offense taken by the way, I understand some posters can get at you especially when they just won't give up with their ideas even once you explain how it's not doable or a bad design. But at the end of the day, even though you're working your ass off, some of us kill time by reading all the content this thread has to offer and... it falls short quickly.