PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
- Start date
- Status
Endy Gainer
New member
Out of curiosity, would it be a simple thing to track zombies by number remaining rather than showing them as blips on our radar during Clear quests? It makes no sense that we'd know how many there were, sure, but it makes little sense that we'd detect them exactly by mere proximity either, and having only a number builds tension since you no longer have a clue as to their location. If this would require more than a simple edit, then it's something I'll request for the future.
Endy Gainer
New member
In addition to number remaining, yeah. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to wander blindly through large POIs looking for that last zombie to clear, finding it, only to find out it still wasn't the last one. Maybe another perception perk could introduce something similar to older Alphas, where the screen would brighten if you were detected while sneaking.
So make it a trigger; sleeper zombies are always off the radar, but you can take a perk in Perception that lets you track active zombies from a certain distance away. It would have merit when traveling, as well. A zombie or vulture wouldn't leave their sleeper position without being woken up anyway, so that point would be moot. Meanwhile, being able to track them this way would end up no different than how it is now, and would encourage more specialization by making larger POI quests more difficult without adequate Perception without locking larger POIs out from non-Perception players entirely.
Last edited by a moderator:
Roland
Moderator
People without abilities often get frustrated. Think about how frustrated Liam Neeson would've been trying to save his daughter without his very particular set of skills. Get the training by spending the perk point and goodbye frustration due to your enhanced perception.
Honestly, these are the kinds of things that make for good perks rather than just a percentage bump to already existing abilities. Some might like the hunt and not get frustrated and so never spend the skillpoint. Others will spend it and then enjoy the enhanced senses for finding those last remaining zeds.
Very good idea.
Odetta
Tester
There is lacking skill and then there is bad design. Tying an ability to quests that is a must have is pigeonholing. Have you done the top tier quests? Where you take on the biggest POIs, many with drop floors and hidden areas? I'm pretty sure the Fun Pimps designed the radar system like they did for a very good reason. I'm all for interesting perks but come on. Frustration should never be the default of a system.People without abilities often get frustrated. Think about how frustrated Liam Neeson would've been trying to save his daughter without his very particular set of skills. Get the training by spending the perk point and goodbye frustration due to your enhanced perception.
Honestly, these are the kinds of things that make for good perks rather than just a percentage bump to already existing abilities. Some might like the hunt and not get frustrated and so never spend the skillpoint. Others will spend it and then enjoy the enhanced senses for finding those last remaining zeds.
Very good idea.
Even with the radar it's sometimes incredibly difficult to locate that blip. Nothing worse than a vulture stuck under an awning.
Roland
Moderator
Same exact thing was said about the minimap with its radar blips before it was removed. People claimed the game would be unplayable without the sense it lent to the player.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t buy the perk. I’m sure I would long before I hit those top tier quests. What’s really going on is you don’t want another tough choice competing for your hard earned skillpoints. Making it a perk wouldn’t be denying it from the game. It just wouldn’t be a free gift from the start.
It could also be part of another benefit like the one that shrinks the radius for buried treasure so it isn’t such a specific narrow usecase.
Odetta
Tester
Have you guys ever done the highest tier quests? They are hard enough without having to perk into something. They take sometimes 2 in game days to clear on default settings and wastes all your ammo fighting the hardest zombies. It's not like the radar thing is on 24/7 it's only for the clearing quests. At this point in time these quests aren't even worth the effort and you wan't to make them more frustrating?
I know it breaks immersion but with how the Pimps laid out the quests it's necessary.
Endy Gainer
New member
Except that it's not a must-have. Or are you saying you've never completely cleared out a POI without being on a clear quest where all the enemies are clearly marked for you? If we're talking about good and bad design, we have to separate ourselves from our own experiences and wants and look at it from a bird's eye view, and think about the most benefit for the most people. Maybe you think having clearly marked enemies is a must-have, but given you only have that during clear quests and we're not seeing a lot of complaining about that, I don't think that's a well thought-out opinion.
That said, it's still an opinion worth thinking about, which is why I addressed your concern about finding that one Zed that moves. The only ones that move are the ones you trigger yourself (or someone else with you), so the only scenario your specific frustration comes to play in is also taken care of by the same perk. It makes sense for the Perception tree, for immersion, and for a natural extension of the player's abilities. Do you have another concern? I can try and mold the concept further if need be.
It's also worth noting that the only quests that are affected by the radar in this way are Clear and Fetch/Clear quests, which represent only a fraction of quests. Even then, only rank 4 and rank 5 quests go to sufficiently large POIs to have this problem. If you're relying on quests enough for that, you'd already be specializing toward making them easier, wouldn't you? It makes sense that you'd spec some Perception, and as such, a perk that would help you sense nearby threats.
Last edited by a moderator:
RipClaw
Well-known member
Higher difficulty settings only bring you stronger and more resilient zombies and the gamestage rises faster.
Much more interesting for someone who prefers the early game are the XP and loot settings. Try setting the loot abundance to 25% and the XP multiplier to 25%. You could also turn off the airdrops. That should extend the early game.
I prefer like hotpoon the late game and the possibilities building offers me. I can have fun with it for a very long time e.g. by building a huge base which takes several weeks to build. I am also someone for whom not only the function is important but also the design.
I also don't need a reason for exploring. If I'm interested then I just do it. However, the fun in exploring is somewhat restricted by the smaller maps. That's why I do quests when I want a change from building.
What also makes the game more interesting is if you mostly do without firearms and try to clear the POIs as quietly as possible. I mainly used the club and the crossbow. With the sneak bonus I can also kill many radioactive zombies with a targeted head shot. Doing this as often as possible without a zombie waking up is also a challenge.
For the zombie radar, I think the pity system would be the best solution.
So, by default, start with just the zombie count and no radar. If zombie count is less than 5, show the radar. If more than 5, and less than 10% (or more sensible figures), and no quest zombies have been killed in the last 2 minutes, show the pity radar.
This would add tension, and solve the missing zombies problem.
So, by default, start with just the zombie count and no radar. If zombie count is less than 5, show the radar. If more than 5, and less than 10% (or more sensible figures), and no quest zombies have been killed in the last 2 minutes, show the pity radar.
This would add tension, and solve the missing zombies problem.
Odetta
Tester
So I'd need to perk into something that only benefited a very specific quest type, the hardest quest type btw. I wish we didn't need blips but seeing how these quests, especially the highest tier ones play out, they are necessary. The first 3-4 tiers of these quests are nothing compared to the 5 tier.
If you wanted to redesign it I have it like this:
Heartbeat Perk: Level 1 - Can hear the heart beat of a nearby enemy at 15 second intervals, 6 meters away (audio cue)
Level 2 - 10 second intervals, 8 meters away (audio cue)
Level 3 - 5 second intervals, 10 meters away (audio and blip)
Level 4 - Can always hear the heart beat of the closes enemy at 12 meters (audio and blip)
Level 5 - Dealing damage to an enemy between their heart beat causes them to freeze in place for 4 seconds.
That would be for the rest of the game, not just quests. This is also assuming that the the Fun Pimps re-design these quests in such a way that it would be very intuitive to seek and destroy without frustration.
Odetta
Tester
Well with zombies getting stuck, falling off 20 story buildings, and vultures getting caught on objects I see it more as a fail safe (blip system). I'm thinking about the average joe who won't like scaling a skyscraper up and down researching every room they were in 5 times because a zombie that he woke fell down from a window ledge landed on a balcony and preceded to get stuck outside. Maybe the sound just isn't there yet but you can't really hear how far or from what direction their moans are coming from.
If I were gonna add perks I'd make them so I can use them the whole game, not for a specific quest. Perks already make quests easier by proxy.
Endy Gainer
New member
Yes, actually. My normal playstyle is stealth/quest/crafting. Since I'm always thorough, I never go after the satchel in Fetch or Salvage quests without first clearing out the POI for that juicy XP, and you don't get a radar for those. I simply rely on my instincts and recognizing the most likely places for sleepers to be hiding, as well as what places are likely to have vultures (by the by, neat thing I remembered; if a vulture flies too far away from the POI, it counts them as dead in regards to the quest). This perk wouldn't benefit me particularly, but it would benefit a lot of people who want that extra edge, and it's compelling from a game design standpoint since it lends itself greatly to quest-heavy playstyles. There's plenty of other high-end quests without radar blips, and nothings else in the game tracks zombies for you. By definition, that makes high level POI Clear quests specialized... so why wouldn't you specialize yourself if you rely on them so heavily?
Correct me if I'm wrong, I may not have worded it properly, but where did I say this perk would only apply to quests? I gave quests as an example, not the end-all be-all. The idea is that it would function as a proximity, and be used in general. It would just be massively useful FOR questing. The Perception perk would still let you detect nearby threats in your general surroundings.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status