PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
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I enjoy the game as it is but am looking forward to the A18 changes coming. This is the first Mod version I've read that actually I wouldn't mind giving a go as it appeals to me and would be very different to the base game and yet the same in ways I enjoy.
khzmusik
Well-known member
The "cactus" example, I'm pretty sure, was just an extreme example to show how undesirable the mechanic itself was. The fact that you were damaged by a cactus rather than, say, a boar, was not the problem. The problem was that players were repetitively doing things they wouldn't normally do (like deliberately getting hit by boars) just to level their skills.
Coding can't solve that. Contextually differentiating between what has been hit (or what has hit the player) may or may not be possible within the current program architecture, I don't know. But even if it's trivially easy to code, it still won't solve the underlying problem.
The question is not whether it's "too hard for them." The question is how long it would take to "solve" it, and whether it is worth prioritizing over other features or bug fixes. Since it seems TFP were moving away from LBD no matter what, I'm sure it was not particularly difficult to answer "no."
And, maybe what you're asking for is not "a little humility" at all, but even more public justification for a gameplay decision that you personally don't like. From their perspective they aren't "ripping out features," they're moving to mechanics that they prefer, and there's no "blame" to push anywhere.
Aldranon
New member
The "Shoot-n-Loot" game play style is a popular format for many games. But because of the fully destructible environment, 7D2D could be much more involved than most games and could make it easier for realistic playstyles.
However, for better or worse, I think TFP will leave a lot of that to mod'ers.
However, for better or worse, I think TFP will leave a lot of that to mod'ers.
Let me be more clear about my previous answer - there's no reason for the Devs to do this. There are already bots out there that add this if you really want it ... but TBH I didn't enjoy it, but that's just me. I prefer spending a few minutes meeting up with someone and dropping down a chest.
I like this idea a lot. But if i have to fight to get to the launcher, I'd like to see the supply drop loot increased in quality a bit.
And I think maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I don't necessarily CARE about the fact I'm waking up naked in the middle of nowhere and that there are supply drones ... we were talking about the story line that Joel was talking about ... and I was just saying I'd like an answer to that. Personally I think the government did it, and we're experiments, like someone else said.
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Oh my god ... I don't remember which Mod it was, I think Ravenhurst (but I might be wrong) ... when you went to the supply drop it triggered this HUGE zombie spawn, with these giant killer zombies. The first one I went to I literally peed my pants because apparently I didn't read that part of the mod notes and it scared me half to death. I screamed and scared the cat into falling off the back of the couch.
Quote Originally Posted by Kage848 View Post
Couldn't you just make the melee skill only go up if you hit a moving entity? The game can tell the difference between a zombie and grass cant it?
That being said, while I do miss a little the LBD for some stuff, I'm more a fan of the way things are now. And I don't see any reason for the Devs to try to change it at this point.
Couldn't you just make the melee skill only go up if you hit a moving entity? The game can tell the difference between a zombie and grass cant it?
Well, if you really want to get technical and "real" the way they teach melee combat is hitting non-living things (zombies don't count). You don't learn hand to hand combat by walking around on the streets punching people ... you learn coordination and moves by hitting stationary bags, and doing exercises to improve your footwork. You move onto bags that move more, etc, but learning by punching inanimate objects isn't immersion breaking. Thinking you can only learn how to use a weapon by going out and poking at things that try to eat your face off is pretty silly, IMO. Before you try to fight for your life, don't you think you'd spend time on a weapons range first? You're not going to go down to the katana store tomorrow and buy a katana and expect to go out on the street the next day and start ninja chopping everyone in your path, you're more likely to cut your own leg off.
That being said, while I do miss a little the LBD for some stuff, I'm more a fan of the way things are now. And I don't see any reason for the Devs to try to change it at this point.
I actually think this is for better. Because it allows for flexibility. If you want a certain play style, chances are there's a mod out there for it. And this way it leaves the options open, instead of boxing them in.
And I'm ready for them to get out of Alpha. I know they need to, and I'm 100% in support of them doing what needs to be done (as long as that whatever it is includes putting the paints back in the game or allowing for them to be modded in) to get the game finished and out the door.
I don't mod, and i don't program, so I have no idea what is involved other than a LOT of time and a LOT of effort and probably a whole bunch of alcohol.
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
You _can_ learn hand-to-hand combat by trial and error, the negative reinforcement of getting punched in the face provides a definite incentive for improvement. There are plenty of bare-knuckle boxers out there who have never set foot inside a gym never mind a dojo. You can meet many of these people by visiting a large UK city on a Saturday night and wearing a t-shirt of the wrong football team. For formal-informal unarmed combat training any decent rugby match will do the trick. If you've never seen rugby imagine American football without the armoured pads and as many fistfights as a hockey match
As for informal weapons training the Irish sport of hurling was used for centuries to train people in sword use with fewer (deadly) injuries. There's also Morris dancing for the English whose stick techniques were used as a way for the young men in the village to train in sword techniques when the general populace was banned from openly wearing weapons. Weapons training can also be done by trail and error but if your enemy is also armed the learning curve can be fatally steep.
Slingblade2040
Active member
Any chance of adding in underwater buildings with loot? Or maybe ships with loot containers? I wouldn't mind if these were part of fetch quests for the trader. It would give us a reason to get the perk for swimming and extra oxygen otherwise its kinda pointless since we don't do anything underwater.
AtomicUs5000
New member
I disagree. Anything that can be described through logic can be coded. Any one of these developers can tell you it is possible to do. Sometimes it hurts to think.
Probably not because some of the problem still exists even without LBD.
Like I said before, I appreciate that. I wish they would have just said that from the beginning. It became a flat out no when it became tiring trying to beat around the bush.
No. It is humility. I say what I mean. I do hope that the newer systems satisfy what I miss about about LBD. I have no problem with that. This blame is in the context of the history behind this change. It moved from people are exploiting it without addressing that it's the code's fault, to that nobody should have to grind for levels when essentially at the time they just replaced the grind with a different grind (killing zombies), to finally realizing that that was exactly what happened so they add in some balance by getting xp elsewhere (to which some people are complaining about since it is possible now for miners to gain more xp than fighters), to a flat out no because it's not what they want.
Most of us who enjoyed LBD were ok with the new system, but what we were hoping for is a hybrid system.... something that took the best from both systems. Kage was asking for just a small bone. A little something, not a complete dismemberment of the current replacement system. Can or cannot the code differentiate between grass and a zombie when you swing at it with a weapon? It would be nice for example, to improve my archery skill based on the number of head shots I actually pull off. If I hit a cactus with my arrow and it levels me up, it is not the fault of LBD. It is the fault of the code, and you can't tell me that is hard to differentiate a cactus from a zombie head.
khzmusik
Well-known member
Pretty sure it was Starvation. I didn't like this at all - combined with the fact that Starvation added animals that one-shot killed you, it just made for a "death loop" where you would go to the airdrop and get the items, then get killed, then run back to the point where you were killed, and get killed again, etc.
It's really too bad, because it had some really interesting NPC ideas. I never got to them, though, because you simply can't leave your base to do the necessary scrounging without getting almost immediately murdered. Played probably 100+ hours and never got there.
Menace312
New member
This is exactly what I thought would happen eventually. Change the old grindy system, but retain the parts that were good/made sense.
But, TFP decided to totally change the system to a new one, without retaining what they had learned from LBD.
Ultimately it is TFPs vision that makes this game good, so I'm not about to say that this change is bad. I dont have nearly enough information yet... Looking forward to A18 in this regard.
BUT, I reserve the right to make observations. Which I have, and which is what Atomic is doing.
khzmusik
Well-known member
My point was that it can't be described through logic alone. The game could easily solve the particular issue that was asked about, and it still wouldn't make LBD viable (to TFP) because it doesn't remove the grind.
It has nothing to do with "thinking" and it would probably be better if you stopped insulting TFP developers.
TFP already said in no uncertain terms that they didn't like the core mechanics of LBD and want to move to a more "class-friendly" system. Joel in particular said this many, many times in these forums. If you really don't want to do the work yourself I can probably dredge up his posts.
As I keep trying to tell you: This is not a problem with the code.
Let's say this is the answer: "Yes, it's trivially easy for the code to distinguish between hitting grass and hitting a zombie."
What would that answer tell you? Nothing - because that feature isn't getting put in the game either way.
All that answer would do it cause people to ask "Can you put that in the game?" And TFP would answer, for the millionth time, "no because we no longer want LBD in the game." It would cause more drama over a subject that already has been beaten to death.
EDIT: ...which I'm contributing to, so I'll stop now.
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Can'tadian
New member
Hey sorry if this isn't in the best place but can anyone answer this question for me?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/1813170373229960644/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/1813170373229960644/
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