A Nice Cup of Tea
New member
If (as you claim) it's not a penalty in any way then it's clearly an utter failure as a "Death Penalty" mechanic, so I assume you'll be replacing it with a different mechanic that is an actual penalty, yes?
PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
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Callum123456789
Active member
oh wtf hows that happened?
MechanicalLens
New member
True, but I prefer this version compared to the current death penalty we have, and I have a feeling that a lot of players will feel the same way. Death, in the scenario I am now describing, is like being knocked to the ground and you are just beginning to regain consciousness. The A18 version is the equivalent to someone kicking you in the ribs - it may hurt, but you can recover within a reasonable amount of time. The A17 version, on the other hand, would be like that same person who would have been kicking you is instead sitting on you for thirty minutes, and you cannot move. Both are meant to be penalties, but the former is a punishment, whilst the latter is a grave annoyance (pun not intended) that you just want to be rid of.
While one could argue that dying and having to slither your way back to your backpack, which could be a km+ away, is punishment enough... Even if that statement was universally accepted, if you were to die within a 5 minute walk between your bedroll and your backpack, it's not so much a punishment, just a small slap on the wrist, which in my opinion, is poor game design. There's a reason why hardcore is so popular among some people - it gives living an extra incentive. While the average player chooses not to play hardcore, if there was no punishment to dying, some would just shrug off at every death, and at that point, they'd might as well put themselves into god mode, since death would be meaningless.
Edit reason: grammar corrections.
While one could argue that dying and having to slither your way back to your backpack, which could be a km+ away, is punishment enough... Even if that statement was universally accepted, if you were to die within a 5 minute walk between your bedroll and your backpack, it's not so much a punishment, just a small slap on the wrist, which in my opinion, is poor game design. There's a reason why hardcore is so popular among some people - it gives living an extra incentive. While the average player chooses not to play hardcore, if there was no punishment to dying, some would just shrug off at every death, and at that point, they'd might as well put themselves into god mode, since death would be meaningless.
Edit reason: grammar corrections.
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Kage848
Stream Team
That sounds awesome!
I think my issue was only doing t5 towers. I figured these were end game and I should only do them. I heard somewhere you were going to allow us to do all tiered quests once we unlock the higher ones. Like even if I'm I'm on t5 quests I can still pick t1 quests. Is that true?
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Wow lol. Is this 1999? This feels alot like Everquest 1
MechanicalLens
New member
Regarding t5 towers, Kage, I recommend to you my method of obtaining enough ammo to clear them out. For every grouping of ammo that you craft/loot/purchase from the trader, you could put some of it away (10%, for example) in a separate chest, for safe keeping. When you eventually decide to conquer (or attempt to, at least) a t5 dungeon, then you have a supply of ammo waiting for you; the rest of the ammo you have (the 90%) would be dedicated to occasional everyday use, and horde nights. Just a suggestion. 
- Sage
- Sage
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Viktoriusiii
New member
@madmole
Seeing how this deathpenalty discussion continues, even though I am satisfied... I have a question:
I gave that opinion back in A17 experimental, and a few times since then:
(no attack, honest question) Why do you guys want to punish the player?
Instead of rewarding survival and taking that reward away
(so lower base xp gain to 50% and give *1.5 after one day; *2 after 3 days (so "normal") and *2.5-3 after 7 days survived)
meaning you aren't punished but rewarded for staying alive.
It wouldn't cut out all the commentors saying that on multiplayer ppl fall behind, but you can not fall in a "death loop" and be stuck at that level.
Also it feels just so much better beeing rewarded for staying alive this long.
Also you can tweek the numbers... make base leveling give 10% of what it is now but go in x5 day 1 x10 day 3 and x20 day 7 or something.
I feel like this way you do not punish the player who already had problems surviving.
Factually it is the same... (more or less) but it FEELS different. It doesnt feel like someone clubbing me with a hammer for dying, but someone just took away my bone and I can earn it back if I survive long enough.
Seeing how this deathpenalty discussion continues, even though I am satisfied... I have a question:
I gave that opinion back in A17 experimental, and a few times since then:
(no attack, honest question) Why do you guys want to punish the player?
Instead of rewarding survival and taking that reward away
(so lower base xp gain to 50% and give *1.5 after one day; *2 after 3 days (so "normal") and *2.5-3 after 7 days survived)
meaning you aren't punished but rewarded for staying alive.
It wouldn't cut out all the commentors saying that on multiplayer ppl fall behind, but you can not fall in a "death loop" and be stuck at that level.
Also it feels just so much better beeing rewarded for staying alive this long.
Also you can tweek the numbers... make base leveling give 10% of what it is now but go in x5 day 1 x10 day 3 and x20 day 7 or something.
I feel like this way you do not punish the player who already had problems surviving.
Factually it is the same... (more or less) but it FEELS different. It doesnt feel like someone clubbing me with a hammer for dying, but someone just took away my bone and I can earn it back if I survive long enough.
If I remember correctly they introduce death penalty to stop players from suicide to heal their broken legs and stuff like that. And Yes, it seems negative, but I really like it. It make us more cautious. Though I hate the part where I have to pick my bag pack, from where I die which is still overloaded with same zombie that kill me.. maybe a bear or radiated and now I am weaker and have no defence to take it back.
Kage848
Stream Team
I am going to try lots of different things. But not having the ammo isent the issue.Regarding t5 towers, Kage, I recommend to you my method of obtaining enough ammo to clear them out. For every grouping of ammo that you craft/loot/purchase from the trader, you could put some of it away (10%, for example) in a separate chest, for safe keeping. When you eventually decide to conquer (or attempt to, at least) a t5 dungeon, then you have a supply of ammo waiting for you; the rest of the ammo you have (the 90%) would be dedicated to occasional everyday use, and horde nights. Just a suggestion.
- Sage
If I have 10k ammo and i do a t5 tower and end it with -500 ammo why am I doing the tower? Ammo is my main need in game. If a poi nets me a loss of ammo I'm gonna skip it.
MechanicalLens
New member
If TFP don't give us a reward that is the equivalent/greater amount of ammo per POI, then they would have to compensate with an even greater reward... (Legendary weapons having a higher chance to drop in them, due to special crates, in A19, perhaps.)
I've run some tests and, on average, clearing out tier 2/3 quests will give you more ammo, loot, XP, and if they're quests, dukes per hour than doing one tier 5 dungeon. Even if TFP allowed us to acquire a similar amount of ammo at the end to what we put in, or even an increased percentage, it would still be inefficient. Doable, but inefficient. Just my opinion, but we need a more enticing, maybe even an exclusive reason to raid tier 5 dungeons.
I've run some tests and, on average, clearing out tier 2/3 quests will give you more ammo, loot, XP, and if they're quests, dukes per hour than doing one tier 5 dungeon. Even if TFP allowed us to acquire a similar amount of ammo at the end to what we put in, or even an increased percentage, it would still be inefficient. Doable, but inefficient. Just my opinion, but we need a more enticing, maybe even an exclusive reason to raid tier 5 dungeons.
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unholyjoe
QA
definitely not me... especially when humidity is high here.. i have severe breathing probs now (ex smoker). the entire qa team and even devs find the bugs... its not 1 person. i try to stay out of everyone's way.
we all want an outstanding game experience for the public and the more we can find... the better for the public.
unholyjoe
QA
i 95% of the play time will not use firearms so my suggestion is try non automatic weapons... to me they fire off too many rounds and most of them are misses... if a player takes his/her time and just shoots 1 at a time instead of rambo'ing... a lot of ammo might be saved for the OS moment...
but thats just me i guess... i just kick them in their ankles and bash their heads in.
also at the way i play i dont do the large pois because i take too long...i can tell you all now... i have died more in a18 then all prior alphas put together... lots of things to get used to again.
@DaVega... i have one hell of a hard head... threats with rocks mean very little to me... back in my day when a kid on the farm... we played army with stones by really throwing them at each other.... so yeah we played with a lot of rocks because we had no 7dtd back then..
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Haidrgna
Tester
I had a system of rewarding survival in A16 and it did fairly well I think. Instead of the super punishing health lowering that was also easily mitigated by perks, I had a system where health would always go back to the base 100 (or more with perks) and you would lose a survival boost buff that increased effectiveness over time (giving health regen, wellness). The wellness now was a bonus for surviving along with the buff, dying would take it away so you needed to rebuild it again. If you were bad at surviving you would just stay at a given amount of HP.
But either way its mostly just psychological, giving something and taking it away or already starting off with it and then having it taken away. The first probably will feel better, as you are being rewarded for staying alive by some boost in xp gains, healing buff or whatever, instead of dropping to a lower than the average value.
I am sure playtesting will reveal the best system for them (I hope).
wolfbain5
Well-known member
MM while you are working that drawbridge, Are we able to mount turrets upside down on the ceiling yet, or to the sides of walls? Much like some of the ones in fallout? not new ones, just the ability to bolt them to the wall or ceiling. basically new rotations
ps, time to get real UnholyJoe. this is better Dr Pepper.
ps, time to get real UnholyJoe. this is better Dr Pepper.
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quilmeshou
New member
hi roland. i have a suggestion. usually glass is broken and after that is very little used for another thing than the player killing himself. then why not using it for traps? i mean creating traps based on broken glass, exploding and releasing glass shards all over the place, and possibly making zeds some bleeding damage and/or common damage. however, knowing that it would be very used, can be made as a late-game trap, per example.
what do you think about it?
what do you think about it?
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