PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Callum123456789]

madmole what is your favourite part of alpha 18?

 

[Guppycur]

huh I stand corrected, I wonder what all this talk about cities not having enough zombies is then. I thought the cities still felt as dangerous as before. To each there own i guess.

Cities don't have any more zombies in them than any other place in the world, EXCEPT that they have more buildings, which have more sleepers. Out in the streets, it's the exact same spawning as the biome it's in.

So if your city is in the desert, the "wilderness spawns" (what you would see in the streets) are exactly the same as anywhere else in the desert.

What it USED to be like was, when you entered a city, the spawns in the streets would be insane. It was glorious, but a design choice where they went another direction with.

 

[Roland]

Oh stealth sounds great on all of the other days, it's just day 7 where I'm curious what the balance is. I'm guessing all of the loot you picked up gives you the resources to rely on your base, but then that means you're playing a VERY specific way, right?

What is very specific about defending a base during horde night? Are you saying that stealth players are trapped within the confining play style of reinforcing a base with upgraded materials and traps and perhaps a gauntlet maze all while shooting at zombies that get through the defenses or perhaps taking a more aggressive and active role by shooting zombies as they approach to soften them up for the traps?

Kind of sounds like....the game....to me.

What is the very specific gameplay you are thinking stealth guys will get locked into 1 night out of every 7?

 

[Guppycur]

Looting gives XP. We've massively rebalanced all play styles to be fairly equal in A18.

That's awesome news, thanks.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

Stealth BuildPro: conserve bullets

Con: weak on horde night

Gun Nut Build

Pro: strong on horde night

Con: spend many bullets

Seems fair. The stealth guy will have lots of bullets to spend on horde night and have more time to make traps and passive defenses since he won’t have to mine and scavenge to craft more bullets.

The gun nut guy will need to spend time crafting bullets but will be able to more easily mow down the waves of zombies on horde night by taking direct action.

Strengths and weaknesses. Why take stealth if it is weaker on horde night? Because it results in a different experience with unique challenges if you played a guns blazing build the last time.

Not really seeing an issue here.

I was in the middle of writing up something exactly as you stated.

Yes indeed being stealthy, at least for me, i am able to conserve almost all my ammo during the week. once horde night hits I always have plenty of ammo. This is coming from a player that never mines but only loots for ammo. I agree with the pros and cons you listed, its dead on.

 

[RipClaw]

I think that would be a great idea so long as its like a final perk for stealth. This way it benifits mainly those who are investing the majority of there points in stealth. I think though that there should be an option so the player with the perk can activate it or deactive it for a horde night.

The stealth abilities are usually activated when you crouch down. That could work the same way.

 

[Guppycur]

166 hours a week I'm invisible and the 2 I'm not you are saying that makes it worthless? I played a stealth build and it was great. If its not your thing then don't do it. We've talked about being able to lose their scent on horde night with max perks. Not sure its a good move though.

No, I was asking what the balance was, i.e. what's the advantage for a stealth build on horde nights. Losing the scent sounds kinda cool, but I'd think a personal "heat map" would work better. If you sit there still in a shadow, you're safe, but if you move (or do anything), your "heat" increases, kinda like what you do with chunks, but on the player.

 

[wolfbain5]

huh I stand corrected, I wonder what all this talk about cities not having enough zombies is then. I thought the cities still felt as dangerous as before. To each there own i guess.

an a10 and a11, cities were nasty, streets filled with zeds, poi's had their own. after a12 or 13, they got nerfed. I used to fear cities, they were a mid to late game thing back then. now, its a day 2 or 3 thing. They were also very dog and cop heavy. with plenty of spider zombies that did the job of screamers.

Now imagine a city where you had dogs every couple of blocks, cops every couple of blocks and screamers every block. that would be close to cities of old.

 

[Roland]

Cities don't have any more zombies in them than any other place in the world, EXCEPT that they have more buildings, which have more sleepers. Out in the streets, it's the exact same spawning as the biome it's in.
So if your city is in the desert, the "wilderness spawns" (what you would see in the streets) are exactly the same as anywhere else in the desert.

What it USED to be like was, when you entered a city, the spawns in the streets would be insane. It was glorious, but a design choice where they went another direction with.

I still say that if cities were always the wasteland biome within their limits that would go at least part way to the way it was since dogs and cops are among the biome spawns there.

 

[madmole]

Hey Madmole are you going to give content creators a 3 day early access period like you guys did in A17? I had no issues with it, just curious.

I think that is the plan.

 

[Guppycur]

Stealth BuildPro: conserve bullets

Con: weak on horde night

Gun Nut Build

Pro: strong on horde night

Con: spend many bullets

Seems fair. The stealth guy will have lots of bullets to spend on horde night and have more time to make traps and passive defenses since he won’t have to mine and scavenge to craft more bullets.

The gun nut guy will need to spend time crafting bullets but will be able to more easily mow down the waves of zombies on horde night by taking direct action.

Strengths and weaknesses. Why take stealth if it is weaker on horde night? Because it results in a different experience with unique challenges if you played a guns blazing build the last time.

Not really seeing an issue here.

Play more on servers. Please. For realzies. You'll find that (at least with a17 on down) there are specific things you absolutely need to get in terms of skills and perks order to even be helpful to others, much less yourself. Yeh yeh a18, different balance, wait and see, but isn't that the point of discussing it?

What is very specific about defending a base during horde night? Are you saying that stealth players are trapped within the confining play style of reinforcing a base with upgraded materials and traps and perhaps a gauntlet maze all while shooting at zombies that get through the defenses or perhaps taking a more aggressive and active role by shooting zombies as they approach to soften them up for the traps?
Kind of sounds like....the game....to me.

What is the very specific gameplay you are thinking stealth guys will get locked into 1 night out of every 7?

I'm saying just what the other people who have played stealth builds say, that you end up depending on your base to kill your zombies for you. I'm not saying it isn't viable, I'm not even saying it doesn't work, I'm curious as to *how* it works, which is why I posed my initial question.

"What's the balance". Well, so far I've been informed that the balance is enough loot to offset the necessity to need to fight, but that it is still better to get those fighting skills in early leaving stealth for later, and that it doesn't work great in a multiplayer setting.

See? I pose a question, listen to the answers, and that helps me formulate an opinion.

MUCH better than just "auto-defend anything that questions tfp's vision".

 

[Guppycur]

I still say that if cities were always the wasteland biome within their limits that would go at least part way to the way it was since dogs and cops are among the biome spawns there.

I don't disagree that cities should be in their own biome. Like they used to be, when they were wasteland biomes (like you keep referring to). And they were inherently dangerous as a result.

Right now you can literally walk through a city with ZERO additional danger, picking and choosing which loot box you want to raid, *knowing* that the only danger you'll face is from the POI you'll enter, so in essence you're choosing which danger experience you want.

...which overall, makes cities EASIER. Now you don't even have to walk far to get to the next POI; not only are they all in one place, but they have bigger ones, too.

The game mechanics do not allow for sleepers in one poi to be woken up by actions in another poi. I could fire rockets all day into a poi and not attract any additional attention.

...try that in earlier builds. =)

 

[KingSlayerGM]

...I'm just saying the top PC PVP game on steam that isn't free to play doesn't have lean, so why would we need it when we're not even in that space.

I'm sorry Madmole, I don't wanna be rude, but I pointed out already that Player Unknown's Battlegrounds has sold more copies than Rust and has "lean". Perhaps Counter Strike has sold more? Not sure..

 

[Callum123456789]

I think when a18 is gonna be released I think im gonna be a strength and intellect build for first but I will try and try out every perk since you guys have worked hard to balance them and make them good

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

Concerning stealth builds, I'll say the only issue I have is sometimes i might not feel like going stealthy just for the sake of wanting to clear a poi quickly. This means going in guns blazing, which puts a major dent in my ammo reserves. so i find myself asking, ok can I afford this ammount of ammo right now or should i save for horde night. 9 out of ten times if i go guns blazing for a few poi's throughout the week, i'll end up running out of ammo on horde night.

I'm not complaining as it forces a stealthy player to consider logistics a lot more than any other builds in my opinion, for me thats fun and immersive.

 

[Guppycur]

I'm sorry Madmole, I don't wanna be rude, but I pointed out already that Player Unknown's Battlegrounds has sold more copies than Rust and has "lean". Perhaps Counter Strike has sold more? Not sure..

It's the old "We're not focusing on PvP" argument. Valid, sadly... because by the time they do give PvP some loving the base mechanics won't allow for it to flourish.

This'll never be the PvP game you want, and that's their design choice, so I guess we're stuck with making due with what we have. My request for Lean wasn't serious, I was poking fun a bit at the situation where someone requested a tin can recipe and MM said "done". =)

 

[madmole]

madmole what is your favourite part of alpha 18?

Endless things I want to do.

 

[Cazmyr]

Hello all,

First I just want to say "Guppy, I have missed you!" :smile-new:

Next I want to ask Madmole: A while back I suggested that we would be able to 'repair' open (and therefore empty and unusable) cabinets. This would turn them back into usable storage and shut the door cosmetically. You responded with 'not a bad idea'. Did that make it into A18? Im good either way, just curious.

Have a great day all,

Caz

 

[madmole]

Cities don't have any more zombies in them than any other place in the world, EXCEPT that they have more buildings, which have more sleepers. Out in the streets, it's the exact same spawning as the biome it's in.
So if your city is in the desert, the "wilderness spawns" (what you would see in the streets) are exactly the same as anywhere else in the desert.

What it USED to be like was, when you entered a city, the spawns in the streets would be insane. It was glorious, but a design choice where they went another direction with.

We were using a biome for the city so it was possible. That was a bad way to handle this and we wanted to get rid of cities having their own biome definition and clean that up. ONce we make cities have bounds we can have more zeds spawn there without so many in the wild.

 

[Seaside]

I don't disagree that cities should be in their own biome. Like they used to be, when they were wasteland biomes (like you keep referring to). And they were inherently dangerous as a result.
Right now you can literally walk through a city with ZERO additional danger, picking and choosing which loot box you want to raid, *knowing* that the only danger you'll face is from the POI you'll enter, so in essence you're choosing which danger experience you want.

...which overall, makes cities EASIER. Now you don't even have to walk far to get to the next POI; not only are they all in one place, but they have bigger ones, too.

The game mechanics do not allow for sleepers in one poi to be woken up by actions in another poi. I could fire rockets all day into a poi and not attract any additional attention.

...try that in earlier builds. =)

I agree. Setting up in a more out of the way place used to be the smart move. Now you might as well setup in a city. You've got everything you need right there. I still setup in a rural area simply because it feels sensible. Heading to a zombie infested city with little to fear feels wrong to me.

Maybe when Bandits arrive they can fill the cities with them.