PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Guppycur]

Still wondering, when you say static terrain do you mean static after world generation (IE, still random) or static period like Nav and how Ark does it?
I know it's a hypothetical, but I'm just curious if you'd actually think it would be worth the tradeoff to lose randomgen just to get more zombies\performance\other features?

Static as in baked, no voxel terrain. Solid, like every other generic game out there. So he's basically saying make the terrain static, but the rest of the world above it voxel.

 

[OldManBrian]

Static as in baked, no voxel terrain. Solid, like every other generic game out there. So he's basically saying make the terrain static, but the rest of the world above it voxel.

Technically you could still have a randomized non-voxel terrain.

I've programmed a fairly basic game in unity that randomly generated large maps with randomized 1 story buildings \ layouts. Been a few years, from what I remember the navmesh was pre-baked into each "block", but the blocks were on a 2d plane with varying elevation. There wasn't any "blocks" above or below, so it saved a ton of calculations on generation. It was fast enough that I could randomly generate while the player was running.

Mind you I never got any textures in and AI pathing was fairly basic, but it worked pretty well considering I was a novice and only spent about a month on it.

Either way though, like you say this game would certainly a lot more generic without randomgen. I could care less about mining, but the randomized maps are the main draw of the game for me and my group. Nav got boring after a couple of hours, so I don't see even having 4 or 5 times the size of the map being enough to hold my interest.

 

[CannedSmeef]

Technically you could still have a randomized non-voxel terrain.
I've programmed a fairly basic game in unity that randomly generated large maps with randomized 1 story buildings \ layouts. Been a few years, from what I remember the navmesh was pre-baked into each "block", but the blocks were on a 2d plane with varying elevation. There wasn't any "blocks" above or below, so it saved a ton of calculations on generation. It was fast enough that I could randomly generate while the player was running.

Mind you I never got any textures in and AI pathing was fairly basic, but it worked pretty well considering I was a novice and only spent about a month on it.

Either way though, like you say this game would certainly a lot more generic without randomgen. I could care less about mining, but the randomized maps are the main draw of the game for me and my group. Nav got boring after a couple of hours, so I don't see even having 4 or 5 times the size of the map being enough to hold my interest.

I actually haven't used RWG in years. I guess I just like "knowing" the map, I haven't even explored all of it yet.

 

[meganoth]

I just listed some facts to give you a better idea of the destructive power of this zombie because you thought you needed a crystal ball to know what damage an explosion of several demolisher zombies would cause.
All I wish for is more information. Madmole wrote that it would take 500 rounds on the head to kill the zombie without an explosion, but I assume it was an hyperbole. Anyway, I hope it was. Otherwise that would be very bad news for base builders who like to use traps.

Yeah, I was reading too much into your and the OPs reply, sorry. But I already know there is massive destructive power in that zombie. I think I even mentioned it myself in some earlier post.

My point is this: You don't need a crystal ball to know that that zombie is spelling trouble. But the OP is sure " how quickly they will wreck all your hard work if ..." And sure, if you get 3 of them into a small room of a base like MM's that surely sounds like it might be the end. But why allow them into your base? Why assume that 20 of them will be spawned. Why assume that you won't run out and try your luck by drawing them out again before trying to explode them.

MM got 1 or 2 demolishers in his horde night and found a way to deal with them. I don't know if I find a way but I will not give up before even trying it out or ask TFP to tell me how to deal with them. Maybe I need to build a ring of walls, maybe have a drawn out base with multiple points of defense. Maybe have enough movement space on stilts so no two demolishers can hit the same spot.

Wouldn't reinforced concrete after 5000 HP damage downgrade to concrete and still have 2500 HP? So one demolisher is not an automatic breach into whatever is behind there.

500 rounds is clearly hyperbole, by the way.

 

[archergod]

Heavy armour reduces the risk of infection.

But how much, Madmole take quite a beating, he never get infection. He is just level 69 ... He cannot be 100% free from infection? Even in other comment someone says that if we take face shot then they cannot bite and hence less chance of infection from just swing. but in video quite a few radiated hit him.. I think if Infection is fixed then he should get infected, else infection is only for until first few horde nights for most player only. Then it is no problem.

 

[unlike them]

Wouldn't reinforced concrete after 5000 HP damage downgrade to concrete and still have 2500 HP?

I think MM doesn't want blocks to downgrade anymore, so if a block says XXX hp, this is what we get, and when it gets destroyed, the block is gone. Can anyone playing A18 confirm, is it in game yet?

 

[F6Knight]

Yeah, I was reading too much into your and the OPs reply, sorry. But I already know there is massive destructive power in that zombie. I think I even mentioned it myself in some earlier post.
But my point is this: You don't need a crystal ball to know that that zombie is spelling trouble. But the OP is sure " how quickly they will wreck all your hard work if ..." And sure, if you get 3 of them into your base that surely sounds like it might be the end. But why allow them into your base? Why assume that 20 of them will be spawned. Why assume that you won't run out and try your luck by drawing them out again before trying to explode them.

MM got 1 or 2 demolishers in his horde night and found a way to deal with them. I don't know if I find a way but I will not give up before even trying it out or ask TFP to tell me how to deal with them. Maybe I need to build a ring of walls, maybe have a drawn out base with multiple points of defense. Maybe have enough movement space on stilts so no two demolishers can hit the same spot.

Wouldn't reinforced concrete after 5000 HP damage downgrade to concrete and still have 2500 HP? So one demolisher is not an automatic breach into whatever is behind there.

500 rounds is clearly hyperbole, by the way.

I clearly referenced MM's day 84 horde night video in my OP.

There he got a decent amount of demolishers and they got into his base almost instantly because they have very high block melee damage. They'll break through your walls/doors/bars with only a few hits.

In that video, they only did 500 block explosion damage. It got buffed after the video. If it was buffed before the video then MM's base would have been gone as several of them exploded inside his main room with all his crafting tables and storage.

I'm eagerly awaiting A18 to find defenses against this new zombie. At the same time I'm hoping that my fears and concerns are misplaced but only time will tell when we can try it out ourselves.

 

[unlike them]

well, I definitely saw MM got infected in previous videos, so the infection is still there

 

[Odetta]

Ok. Sorry Madmole if you thought I was calling your game bad. I wasn't, just in case you were wondering. I meant, like in a way of violence and gore, etc..
I think we need zombie grammar teachers in the game.

Maybe engrish is'not hes naytave sandwhich?""

 

[meganoth]

I think MM doesn't want blocks to downgrade anymore, so if a block says XXX hp, this is what we get, and when it gets destroyed, the block is gone. Can anyone playing A18 confirm, is it in game yet?

I remember it being posted as an idea for A19 or A20. I also remember MM saying about the demolishers explosion damage that it wouldn't be enough for reinforced concrete.

 

[RipClaw]

Yeah, I was reading too much into your and the OPs reply, sorry. But I already know there is massive destructive power in that zombie. I think I even mentioned it myself in some earlier post.
But my point is this: You don't need a crystal ball to know that that zombie is spelling trouble. But the OP is sure " how quickly they will wreck all your hard work if ..." And sure, if you get 3 of them into your base that surely sounds like it might be the end. But why allow them into your base? Why assume that 20 of them will be spawned. Why assume that you won't run out and try your luck by drawing them out again before trying to explode them.

I'm not an FPS player. I don't like firearms and I am not good with them.

I like strategy more and I build my bases for this purpose. I have an emergency exit but I usually don't make the entrances easy accessable. Otherwise the zombies might use this entrance instead of the way through the traps. It will definitely be a tough nut to build a base that includes both the demolisher zombie and the AI in the planning.

MM got 1 or 2 demolishers in his horde night and found a way to deal with them. I don't know if I find a way but I will not give up before even trying it out or ask TFP to tell me how to deal with them. Maybe I need to build a ring of walls, maybe have a drawn out base with multiple points of defense. Maybe have enough movement space on stilts so no two demolishers can hit the same spot.

I will certainly not give up and probably spend several days developing base designs. I have asked Madmole before and his answer was that I should trigger the explosion.

The base you suggested wouldn't be my style. This is something for someone who likes to defend himself with firearms.

I also wonder how the players will do that, prefer the melee bases.

Wouldn't reinforced concrete after 5000 HP damage downgrade to concrete and still have 2500 HP? So one demolisher is not an automatic breach into whatever is behind there.

This has been changed to A17. Reinforced concrete block are no longer downgraded to concrete but destroyed.

 

[Roland]

I think MM doesn't want blocks to downgrade anymore, so if a block says XXX hp, this is what we get, and when it gets destroyed, the block is gone. Can anyone playing A18 confirm, is it in game yet?

Blocks destroy to air. If any do not do so, that will need to be a bug report as it was an oversight.

Guys, there is too much worry about enemies like Demolishers. Thanks to Conventional Ralston many people who would've had an issue won't have an issue.

 

[Spiked_Coffee]

I think MM doesn't want blocks to downgrade anymore, so if a block says XXX hp, this is what we get, and when it gets destroyed, the block is gone. Can anyone playing A18 confirm, is it in game yet?

In his video the steel pillars downgraded to reinforced concrete before disappearing

 

[Roland]

In his video the steel pillars downgraded to reinforced concrete before disappearing

I think I remember him commenting on that to the team. I don't think they'll downgrade to reinforced concrete for long.

The design is that upgrading blocks is a generalized abstracted process of actually tearing down the old block and replacing it with the better block. TFP didn't think it would be very fun to force players to demolish the existing block and then craft and place the new block especially with wanting to upgrade an entire base. So they streamlined the process to remove the demolishing and crafting step. If you want to replace reinforced concrete with steel you upgrade to it but it is a steel block and not steel plating over concrete. (This part might be wrong...)

Therefore, steel downgrading to concrete etc doesn't make sense. It is a steel block and there is no concrete hiding beneath it and there is no abstraction that makes sense of a zombie destroying the block and then replacing it with a weaker version of a block.

 

[RipClaw]

In his video the steel pillars downgraded to reinforced concrete before disappearing

Madmole explained that the steel blocks are steel coated blocks made of reinforced concrete. If the coating is destroyed, the reinforced concrete is visible.

 

[Roland]

Madmole explained that the steel blocks are steel coated blocks made of reinforced concrete. If the coating is destroyed, the reinforced concrete is visible.

Then that is different or a change from what I heard. Madmole will have to clarify. I was under the impression all blocks will destroy to air. If they want the steel to be siding over the top of concrete....so be it.

 

[JayzenFreeze]

I think I remember him commenting on that to the team. I don't think they'll downgrade to reinforced concrete for long.

not a fan of that, it would be nice if there was a way that if you did the upgrades to the block the expensive way it breaks down from steel like it was wrapped around the reinforced concrete then reinforced concrete broke down to rebar frame then gone. Oh well

I see zeds sometimes clip through doors again from video. QUESTION: will the pressure plates finally work right? Last time i used them every time a zed stepped on one it killed my FPS. I cant wait to play A18 though, great videos MM

 

[Callum123456789]

not a fan of that, it would be nice if there was a way that if you did the upgrades to the block the expensive way it breaks down from steel like it was wrapped around the reinforced concrete then reinforced concrete broke down to rebar frame then gone. Oh well I see zeds sometimes clip through doors again from video. QUESTION: will the pressure plates finally work right? Last time i used them every time a zed stepped on one it killed my FPS. I cant wait to play A18 though, great videos MM

yeah the alpha 18 hype is real:cocksure: I also cant wait as well! gonna be really fun to play I think the replayability value looks high wthout me even playing it so I am very excited

 

[Roland]

not a fan of that, it would be nice if there was a way that if you did the upgrades to the block the expensive way it breaks down from steel like it was wrapped around the reinforced concrete then reinforced concrete broke down to rebar frame then gone. Oh well I see zeds sometimes clip through doors again from video. QUESTION: will the pressure plates finally work right? Last time i used them every time a zed stepped on one it killed my FPS. I cant wait to play A18 though, great videos MM

Well it sounds like I could have it wrong at least in the case of steel. We'll see...I personally like the downgrading path instead of straight to air because it gives time to repair. Destroying instantly to air is a lot more difficult if you are trying to repair as you fight.

 

[RipClaw]

Then that is different or a change from what I heard. Madmole will have to clarify. I was under the impression all blocks will destroy to air. If they want the steel to be siding over the top of concrete....so be it.

You only have to have a look at the blocks.xml file. If a downgrade block is specified in the block description then the block will not be destroyed. For example, for steelBlock the downgrade block is rConcreteBlock.