Alpha 16 is the best. All downhill from there.

C'mon what happened to the brilliant ideas?

 

[KirillWright]

@Laz Man Hi buddy! This is not quite on topic of the post. Are there plans for water related poi in the near future??? Like ports, piers and such. Maybe adding water poi from the Navezgane map to RWG? For me any changes to RWG are more important than bandits Thanks in advance for your answer!

 

[KirillWright]

The one thing I miss about the earlier alphas is something that has been brought up a couple of times, and that's zombie spawning & behavior outside of POIs.

I remember as recently as A19(?) that you had to be really careful causing any kind of commotion outside because it would VERY quickly begin spawning more zombies in the area until you had a horde on top of you. I haven't seen anything like that in a long time. The only time I ever see a lot zombies in one place anymore is during an Infestation quest. And that's just a shame.

I have no idea exactly what under-the-hood changes have happened over the last couple of years to nerf outdoor zombie spawns so badly, but it's something that needs to be looked at.

It would be nice to have a setting that controls the amount of zombie and animal spawns

 

[Kyoji]

Agreed. Movement was slower too, so you had to really work to get across a biome at the start.



The ability to boil water in cans halfway overcame the need for a cooking pot, but I couldn't cook any of the meat I had harvested. You lose me when you say "stripping out half of the content to fix it" as I don't understand what you mean. Specific to cooking pots, 1.0 added them to traders but there was also a "Cooking Pot Helper" block added to the game which led to more cooking pots in POIs.



I hear this opinion a lot, especially on Steam and Reddit. I use stealth all the time. It is my preferred method for clearing a POI. I completely disagree with it being a "nothing burger." While new trigger features can create some pretty rough ambushes, they don't preclude the use of stealth. I wouldn't take A16's stealth over a modern implementation of it -- not because it didn't work -- but because it had no nuance.

It's unclear to me if folks know techniques for breaking contact and regaining stealth or if they think that's unreasonable. It's also unclear to me if folks expect Stealth to be 100% effective, rather than 90%. I mean, if I clear an entire POI with the exception of 2 encounters, have to evade and regain stealth in 1 of those encounters, and resort to using a gun for 1 encounter, then I'm happy. I converted sticks and stones to kills and saved a lot of ammo for horde night.

Stealth isn't the fast way to clear a POI and to be good at it you have to be more cautious.



I don't really understand that. What's the path?



Is this referring to the path?



What script?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't want to put words in your mouth and only seek to understand your opinion. Is it fair to say that you feel compelled to play taking advantage of efficiencies and synergies such that you consume the game content faster?

Adding options to temp folks away from quests would be cool. What ideas do you have there?

The path I am referring to is skill trees. I.E. how terrible it is to swing a metal sledgehammer without investment.

As far as script it means the game encourages you both in an investment/time proposition but also mechanically via the introduction quests. I like traders and quests but it would be nice to see things like Laz suggested like bandits hiding in remnants that offer good loot or whatever. Basically a reason to randomly wander and explore than just ring quests which are by far more efficient.

 

[zztong]

The path I am referring to is skill trees. I.E. how terrible it is to swing a metal sledgehammer without investment.

Ah. Yes, I would certainly invest in the melee weapon for Stamina's sake. Guns, on the other hand, work great with no investment in specific skill.

I take it you cling to a particular stat, like Strength or Fortitude? If so, I recognize there's a synergy to doing that in that you get more Perks for the same number of points because you only invest in one area.

I don't do that. I spread out. I'm more likely to take STR to 3 with 2 points in club with my first 4 points, then buy some essentials, like cooking, then start on AGL by filling in the Perks for AGL 1, then go to AGL 3 and fill in the Perks, then go to AGL 5 and fill in the perks. Then I'll go back to STR and FORT, fill out the Perks I want taking them up STR 5 and FORT 5, then maybe consider some investment in mining, or maybe INT, depending on what I'm feeling.

I don't really see a path there. I see lots of room for individualism.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 12:11 PM

As far as script it means the game encourages you both in an investment/time proposition but also mechanically via the introduction quests.

I do acknowledge that quests are enticing with their additional reward for doing what you probably would have been doing anyways. However, the game really doesn't require you to do them, or even stick to Tier 1 until you've done 10 of them. Admittedly, biome progression has introduced a need to deal with traders that I think could have been done otherwise, but you still don't have to do POI quests for that.

You never go off "script" (chaining quests) to do what you want?

 

[RyanX]

At least in A16 the game didn't hold your hand. The basic versions of this game were the scariest and instead of building on that, TFP just added things to the game just for the purpose of changing things. Many things that made zero sense.

Devs need to go back to A16 since that's where everything started to go wrong and take a different path of development. They have created a hand-holding candyland amusement park full of loot and have taken away the open world survival aspect.

 

[Kyoji]

Ah. Yes, I would certainly invest in the melee weapon for Stamina's sake. Guns, on the other hand, work great with no investment in specific skill.

I take it you cling to a particular stat, like Strength or Fortitude? If so, I recognize there's a synergy to doing that in that you get more Perks for the same number of points because you only invest in one area.

I don't do that. I spread out. I'm more likely to take STR to 3 with 2 points in club with my first 4 points, then buy some essentials, like cooking, then start on AGL by filling in the Perks for AGL 1, then go to AGL 3 and fill in the Perks, then go to AGL 5 and fill in the perks. Then I'll go back to STR and FORT, fill out the Perks I want taking them up STR 5 and FORT 5, then maybe consider some investment in mining, or maybe INT, depending on what I'm feeling.

I don't really see a path there. I see lots of room for individualism.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 12:11 PM

I do acknowledge that quests are enticing with their additional reward for doing what you probably would have been doing anyways. However, the game really doesn't require you to do them, or even stick to Tier 1 until you've done 10 of them. Admittedly, biome progression has introduced a need to deal with traders that I think could have been done otherwise, but you still don't have to do POI quests for that.

You never go off "script" (chaining quests) to do what you want?

Not typically unless I find a POI I recognize to loot grab quickly or trail off on mailboxes. With a time limit (7 days) I feel pressured to be more effective with my game plans and prioritize things that will maximize my benefits and minimize deficiencies.

The path I am referring to is with weapons specifically. It's quite hard to go from knives to sledges for example or to stun baton without investment. I am saying a good point of the previous learn by doing is that you had more open ended options for leveling not that it was inherently better.

 

[zztong]

Not typically unless I find a POI I recognize to loot grab quickly or trail off on mailboxes. With a time limit (7 days) I feel pressured to be more effective with my game plans and prioritize things that will maximize my benefits and minimize deficiencies.

And that time limit of 7 days is the pressure of being ready for the first horde?

If so, I can easily see the pressure if you're building a horde base. I'm not usually building until maybe day 21. I'm more likely to spend day 7 fixing up a defensive position in a POI or just preparing to take on the horde in the open. I kind of enjoy "winging it."

The path I am referring to is with weapons specifically. It's quite hard to go from knives to sledges for example or to stun baton without investment. I am saying a good point of the previous learn by doing is that you had more open ended options for leveling not that it was inherently better.

For melee, I agree completely. My first investment is in clubs and I won't change from that, though later in the game when I get stealth up some I'll sometimes sneak in a knife sneak attack even though I've not invested in it. Guns though, I'm the opposite, since there's no stamina issues.

I can see in A16 how LBD made it possible to save points for just the perks and that playing an extended game let you work on all of the weapons and not really spend any points.

I can also see the logic behind a person learning by doing... practice. It makes sense to get better at something that way. I wouldn't mind if that were expressed somehow in the game to some extent for weapons. I don't think I would extend it to things like movement (athletics I think A16 called it.)

 

[Bashtiks]

If pimps say big F U for things that makes sense u will obey, cause end of the day ur their HO, if they want you to play magical candy crash rpg u will do so ... xD

 

[manOyore]

On console legacy version, I remember in the pine forest it would snow and cover everything, if you built a base and even completely enclosed, there would still be snow on your workbench and forge. I remember having to use a torch or stand by my campfire to stay warm.

I completely forgot about that happening occasionally. That was so cool (literally and figuratively). I would like to see that return to the game. Maybe during the holiday season Fun Pimps?

One of the things I'm most enjoying in my A16 game is the number of zombies.... they're everywhere. I really missed the wandering hordes of 20+ zombies.

I miss that too. I remember there being a bug for a short while back then where the zombies would attack trees when wandering about. One time as I looked out of my base into the distance, I could see trees falling down and it was getting closer and closer. It was one of the scariest things I've seen in 7DTD. It must have been a wandering horde coming for me. I didn't stick around to find out.

Anyone remember how zombies would get stuck on the big rocks and beat on them leaving some interesting works of "art"? I used to call them zombie sculptures.

I miss the green shamwiches too. I was always extremely hesitant to eat one of those. The newer shamwiches don't illicit that gag reflex like the old green ones did, lol.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I don't think I would extend it to things like movement (athletics I think A16 called it.)

You don't think running makes you better at running?

 

[zztong]

You don't think running makes you better at running?

Sure... over months of time... if you're not already in shape. I don't think it's worth including in the game. I think the Perks for stamina have it better covered.

 

[Kyoji]

Sure... over months of time... if you're not already in shape. I don't think it's worth including in the game. I think the Perks for stamina have it better covered.

If anything running all the time would likely cause muscle fatigue. So technically LBD would need to be capped. Either way I don't want development to go to LBD again. Maybe after everything is done they can revisit the idea of LBD and perks, but for now I am plenty satisfied with the direction.

 

[zztong]

If anything running all the time would likely cause muscle fatigue. So technically LBD would need to be capped. Either way I don't want development to go to LBD again. Maybe after everything is done they can revisit the idea of LBD and perks, but for now I am plenty satisfied with the direction.

I suppose that's true.

I want to walk back part of my earlier statement. It doesn't matter to me that it would take time. The game compresses scale on lots of stuff, so I'd concede that.

But I don't think the resulting player motivation makes for a good game. That is, as a player wanting to enjoy the benefits of an Athletics skill, I could run lots of laps around my home base. That's... boring. In contrast, doing more interesting things earns experience that leads to points I can spend on a perk is more fun.

Mixing LBD with weapons leads to fighting zombies which is fun. Plus with guns you'd use ammo. I suppose somebody could add shooting at targets and melee with a fighting dummy, and if that led to somebody spending hours in a safe base, then I'd wonder if that was worthy of being added.

 

[EvilPolygons]

In contrast, doing more interesting things earns experience that leads to points I can spend on a perk is more fun.

That gets to the heart of the matter right there. The system we have now (which is more of a traditional XP-based system) is essentially LBD -- doing anything interesting gets you XP (ie, learning), and that XP can then be spent on whatever you want.

The people demanding a return to the old LBD system are basically asking for a system that only rewards players for meta/powergaming the system instead of playing normally and naturally. Requiring players to sit in a base and craft 1,000 stone axes is neither realistic nor fun.

Now, gaining XP from looting POIs and applying that XP to crafting may not be exactly realistic either, but at least it's fun and gives players the freedom to play the game normally instead of requiring them to powergame their way through it.

 

[theFlu]

The people demanding a return to the old LBD system are basically asking for a system that only rewards players for meta/powergaming the system instead of playing normally and naturally.

< A virus, in front of a person wanting LBD back
< Not asking for a system that rewards massively stupid grinding

> Your move.

 

[EvilPolygons]

< A virus, in front of a person wanting LBD back
< Not asking for a system that rewards massively stupid grinding

> Your move.

<You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
<There is a small mailbox here.

>

 

[Kyoji]

To be fair wanting LBD isn't the same as simply wanting the old system. I think it's good to make that clear.

The idea is that LBD, as referenced in earlier alphas, needed tweaks to make it more balanced. What people, from my understanding, want isn't a copy/paste of the old system but the old system WITH added changes to make it less grindy and exploitative. In other words they were shocked that instead of tweaking the old system they created a new system with a whole new set of exploitations (mailbox grind - which is slated to be addressed from the developers if I recall).

 

[theFlu]

(mailbox grind - which is slated to be addressed from the developers if I recall).

Addressed mailbox grind: Added an ability to grind trash bags for magazines instead. (Actual 2.0 feature...)

 

[EvilPolygons]

To be fair wanting LBD isn't the same as simply wanting the old system. I think it's good to make that clear.

The idea is that LBD, as referenced in earlier alphas, needed tweaks to make it more balanced. What people, from my understanding, want isn't a copy/paste of the old system but the old system WITH added changes to make it less grindy and exploitative. In other words they were shocked that instead of tweaking the old system they created a new system with a whole new set of exploitations (mailbox grind - which is slated to be addressed from the developers if I recall).

Sure, but in my decades of PC gaming, I have yet to ever discover a game where LBD didn't involve grinding.

I still have nightmares about GMing lockpicking in Ultima Online from like 25 years ago.

 

[Kalen]

To be fair wanting LBD isn't the same as simply wanting the old system. I think it's good to make that clear.

The idea is that LBD, as referenced in earlier alphas, needed tweaks to make it more balanced. What people, from my understanding, want isn't a copy/paste of the old system but the old system WITH added changes to make it less grindy and exploitative. In other words they were shocked that instead of tweaking the old system they created a new system with a whole new set of exploitations (mailbox grind - which is slated to be addressed from the developers if I recall).

I'm pretty sure even people that loved the LBD system didn't like spam crafting. I know I sure didn't.