PC About Double clearing POIs and how to fix it

[Roland]

Why overcomplicate things by trying to do something algorithmically which every player, if he/she is so inclined, is perfectly capable of doing on his/her own?

I mean, nothing, as far as I'm aware, prevent players from positioning themselves so that their back is towards the POI when starting the quest at ! mark. 

And I do, however, that is the lesser problem for my preference. The more important issue is the appearance of a floating exclamation point. 
 

Thanks to the trader they already have dialogue trees coded with an NPC. They just need to place an NPC across the street instead of a punctuation mark in the yard, setup the dialogue tree, and then have the trader run off and despawn once line of sight is broken. It’s definitely not a priority and not a light task but a much better look to make the game appear more finished. The interjection garnish looks like a placeholder more than a polished game element in my opinion. 

 

[th3s0n1c]

There's that exploit word again.... I'm sure you just meant it as a synonym for "use".   

I said what I said.

 

[Kalen]

I said what I said.

Well, then you're wrong.   Not sure how it can be an exploit when it works exactly as designed.   A feature that one of the game founders regularly uses, by his own admission.   So yeah, not an exploit.  

 

[Rince]

And I do, however, that is the lesser problem for my preference. The more important issue is the appearance of a floating exclamation point. 
 

Thanks to the trader they already have dialogue trees coded with an NPC. They just need to place an NPC across the street instead of a punctuation mark in the yard, setup the dialogue tree, and then have the trader run off and despawn once line of sight is broken. It’s definitely not a priority and not a light task but a much better look to make the game appear more finished. The interjection garnish looks like a placeholder more than a polished game element in my opinion. 

I imagine that they would need to make the NPC invencible, so they don't get killed before starting the quest.

...

I can see players using somehow this to defeat the Blood Moon horde.

 

[mr.devolver]

I imagine that they would need to make the NPC invencible, so they don't get killed before starting the quest.

...

I can see players using somehow this to defeat the Blood Moon horde.

I believe NPCs are invincible by default already, so there would be no change for them. As for the horde night concern, assuming you're talking about the possible intention of players to use that poor NPC guy as a decoy for zombies, that could be easily fixed simply by excluding him from the zombie's target list. Then again, that alone would be pretty immersion breaking too...

 

[Boidster]

When TFP came up with the "quest reset POI' mechanic, I believe they werent accounting for people doing a double run on it. Probably just thinking of renewing POIs already looted so the quests could take place there.

  Question for you: is that original thought that you claim TFP had - renewing an old, already-looted POI so it could host a quest - a valid design goal? That is, in a world where every building can be searched, looted, and destroyed, is it a valid design goal to be able to reset quest-related POIs?

If your answer is no, then you can forget the next part, because I misunderstand the basis of your argument. If your answer is yes, though...

Just like with most things they "fix" in the game because they didnt think it would act the way players are now using it in an exploitive way

Why is resetting an already-looted POI an "exploit", if it was a valid design decision? Is it only the time aspect that gets you worked up? Loot it 3 game days ago? No problem. Loot it 3 game minutes ago? Exploit. Is that it?

 

[Axonius]

I think that it bigger cheese to jump straight to the loot room than double looting.  There are so many POIs in the game, what difference does it make to loot one POI twice. What are you saving yourself? 2 minutes of travel time?

 

[JCrook1028]

So much so that the Devs are actually pondering about ways to prevent sneaky rushing looting (hence the key to unlock lootroom idea) and it might even fix the POI reset matter as a side effect.

Those two issues are not connected. Even after making loot rooms non cheeseable (by nerdpoling for example) they still will need to reset the POI prior to every quest. The POI has to be in virgin condition at the start of the quest. Period. End of Story.

 

[mr.devolver]

I've got a better question!

If I made a quest of clearing the poi why it is not marked as cleared on the map and there are no troop fending it against re-invasion of zeds? I'd like to have some npcs patrolling the area and even help me defend my base on horde nights!

Can't see how this would work in base game, but man you have some good idea there that could perhaps work well as a feature in a mod involving friendly NPCs!

 

[JCrook1028]

Blake's suggestion already fixes the problem we're both discussing just by tying the reset to the POI once the quest is selected at the trader.

Unless you're someone like me, who often has a quest from the trader for days before I actually go do it. If that POI had been reset at the moment I took the quest then on a MP world it is very likely looted by the time I get to it.

 

[th3s0n1c]

  Question for you: is that original thought that you claim TFP had - renewing an old, already-looted POI so it could host a quest - a valid design goal? That is, in a world where every building can be searched, looted, and destroyed, is it a valid design goal to be able to reset quest-related POIs?

If your answer is no, then you can forget the next part, because I misunderstand the basis of your argument. If your answer is yes, though...

Why is resetting an already-looted POI an "exploit", if it was a valid design decision? Is it only the time aspect that gets you worked up? Loot it 3 game days ago? No problem. Loot it 3 game minutes ago? Exploit. Is that it?

Yes and Yes.

Those two issues are not connected. Even after making loot rooms non cheeseable (by nerdpoling for example) they still will need to reset the POI prior to every quest. The POI has to be in virgin condition at the start of the quest. Period. End of Story.

I didnt say they were connected. I said it could be worked into fixing both as a side effect.

So here is for both @JCrook1028 and @Boidster my problem is not really the fact that POI gets reset, it's that the SAME person will loot it twice because of that. If another player got there and looted it before you and you just reset the POI due to a quest, its fine.. because it's a valid design goal to keep the server from drying out. We already have a mechanic of loot respawn in place, why do it again? Might as well just make loot/zombies respawn everyday, then.

If I had to make another suggestion on how to deal with it, instead of reseting the POI upon accepting the quest on the trader, then reset the POI and activate the quest as soon as you enter it's perimeter. Problem solved.

Unless you're someone like me, who often has a quest from the trader for days before I actually go do it. If that POI had been reset at the moment I took the quest then on a MP world it is very likely looted by the time I get to it.

That's your call on WHEN to do it, but keeping the consequence in mind for postponing it, just like someone could loot a POI you intended to but you chose to do it the day after. In a MP server you'd risk the chance of losing that quest and would have to get another one. It's not even that big of a deal.

And it's not "very likely", its POSSIBLE. Unless you're on T5 quests, there's hundreds upon hundreds of POIs in the game spread out across a MP server, what makes you say that the one where your quest is would be the one looted?

 

[alanea]

I imagine that they would need to make the NPC invencible, so they don't get killed before starting the quest.

...

I can see players using somehow this to defeat the Blood Moon horde.

zombies ignore everything that isnt set in their ai  they have basically list of stuff they try attack /break  ... making them  100%  ignore some "npc"  is just verysmall change in xml  ...so they can  ignore quest giver .. hiden in trash container

  Question for you: is that original thought that you claim TFP had - renewing an old, already-looted POI so it could host a quest - a valid design goal? That is, in a world where every building can be searched, looted, and destroyed, is it a valid design goal to be able to reset quest-related POIs?

If your answer is no, then you can forget the next part, because I misunderstand the basis of your argument. If your answer is yes, though...

Why is resetting an already-looted POI an "exploit", if it was a valid design decision? Is it only the time aspect that gets you worked up? Loot it 3 game days ago? No problem. Loot it 3 game minutes ago? Exploit. Is that it?

its mostly overlooked abuse of system they made

respawning poi as well as loot isnt problem ....  problem is it doesnt reset zombies so tou kill them once and then  loot poi twice 

so solution is  primitive ... respawn zombies by starting quest  =  fresh poi is full of loot  but its not free loot  just fresh poi

 

[Kalen]

problem is it doesnt reset zombies so tou kill them once and then  loot poi twice 

I'm confused, are you saying resetting the POI for a quest doesn't reset the zombies?   If thats what you're saying, you are incorrect.  The zombies do reset when you start the quest.

 

[BFT2020]

Is this really a problem that needs fixing?

 

[alanea]

I'm confused, are you saying resetting the POI for a quest doesn't reset the zombies?   If thats what you're saying, you are incorrect.  The zombies do reset when you start the quest.

 it didnt in a17 a18 ... and as far i know nothing changed ... people mass abused  it  by clearing poi  starting quest and looting clean poi again

sure i can be wrong i dont abuse holes in game like this  siii maybe its fixed

 

[BFT2020]

 it didnt in a17 a18 ... and as far i know nothing changed ... people mass abused  it  by clearing poi  starting quest and looting clean poi again

Funny I would swear the clearing out zombies in A18 and A19 prior to activating the quest behaved like Kalen is saying.  I am about to start a new game and I think I will check that out on my first tier 1 quest

 

[Kalen]

 it didnt in a17 a18 ... and as far i know nothing changed ... people mass abused  it  by clearing poi  starting quest and looting clean poi again

sure i can be wrong i dont abuse holes in game like this  siii maybe its fixed

You are mistaken.... in A17-A19 starting a quest resets everything in the POI including zombies.   

 

[fragtzack]

There is no problem with double clearing POI's. So what if people do this. 

 

[Roland]

Here’s a question for those who see double dipping as an exploit:

Immersion aside, what if the POI changed to a different POI when it reset? Would you still consider it an exploit to clear it and then reset it and then have an entirely different layout to clear the second time?  

 

[th3s0n1c]

Here’s a question for those who see double dipping as an exploit:

Immersion aside, what if the POI changed to a different POI when it reset? Would you still consider it an exploit to clear it and then reset it and then have an entirely different layout to clear the second time?  

I guess not, because it would be the same as going to explore another POI. But then again.. holy @%$#, that would be @%$#ed up and immersion breaking AF rofl..