PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[meganoth]

Nope. forces of corruption expansion pack to Star Wars empire at war was rly big but use a lot of this same units, systems maps etc

If TFP decided to add expansion it will add :new biom, maybe new faction ( army for example) , 15 more weapons, 20 more zombie type, unique POIs, quests etc. 

Not enough to be sequel but more that dlc.

What would be needed in sequel? - more zombies in this same place, a big change like big city similiar to city with gigantic skyscraper, advance gore system, a lot of more items. Well except the forest  (sons of the forest sequel) and stay of decay any sandbox game get sequel. Conan get tons of dlc , ark too. So expansion pack are more likly. And honestly- modders are maybe 0,1% players- more people know 7dtd because "endless alpha ". So sequel would be PR critical mistake if they decided it in short time after release of 1. so spinoff with diffrent setting will be just safer option

You simply posted your wish list again (which everyone in the forum knows by heart now ). 7D2D is not a zombie shooter clone and I would guess that features in the next installement will be from the long list of ideas they could not implement this time.

Modders are by far the most important 0,1% of players. Because they provide the variety that will make this game stay relevant for years. Just look at bethesda games or minecraft how much impact modability has.

 

[Fanatical_Meat]

Small offtopic but - how valve manage to create soo good gore with so many zombies on screen? there isn't any game with  having even close gore system to l4d2.  Most game have "gore" only as static prop  like corpses on spikes

The “world” in L4D2 is a lot smaller. Physically and in computing power.

you cannot destroy anything that isn’t meant to be destroyed

nothing grows or changes

you cannot did or collapse a building

As a result of the above the game has far fewer things to keep track of and that extra power can be used to control more zombies.

 

[Matt115]

You simply posted your wish list again (which everyone in the forum knows by heart now ). 7D2D is not a zombie shooter clone and I would guess that features in the next installement will be from the long list of ideas they could not implement this time.

Modders are by far the most important 0,1% of players. Because they provide the variety that will make this game stay relevant for years. Just look at bethesda games or minecraft how much impact modability has.

Honestly for long time 7dtd was "minecraft with modern setting" but now it is more similar to ark . And honestly - 7dtd is not tes or fallout - it doesn't have lore. This is very important for bethesda game - people add enemies "from lore", items etc. 

But most of mods to skyrim are :

1. lore friendly and immersive stuff + improvments.

2. @SnowDog1942 favourite stuff

3. Hahha mods ( like shrek dragon)

TFP decided to cut UMA - this mean a lot of people will stop making characters models. And i don't expect people will create models even close to hd vanilia models. 

I know a lot of games with mods and what? honestly i love Total war ,sw  battlefront 2 classic mods but this games are old- so you have still tools to make models etc.

Okay do you know modder who would make models similar to new HD models of zombies ?  Idk.

But 7dtd is not minecraft or skyrim - there is no chance of getting 100+ big pack with good looking enemies guns. 

Modders can't  add everything. So honestly that's true this is not zombie shooter clone - but minecraft clone neither. So only "rly good stuff" you can expect from TFP because they have enough money and tools.

I would agree with you if any modder could "reskin" this - Emmanuel Lecouturier - A Plague Tale : Innocence - Melie (artstation.com) into zombie version of this character and add to 7dtd and i would stop complain about argument  "modders can do X". Until this time 7dtd is like coh2 - it have mods potential but doesn't have enough tool to be game keep alive by modders. 

The “world” in L4D2 is a lot smaller. Physically and in computing power.

you cannot destroy anything that isn’t meant to be destroyed

nothing grows or changes

you cannot did or collapse a building

As a result of the above the game has far fewer things to keep track of and that extra power can be used to control more zombies.

Yeah but cod for example have even less destroyable maps on zombie and gore system is bad, this same in back 4 blood or in kiling floor 2

 

[meganoth]

Honestly for long time 7dtd was "minecraft with modern setting" but now it is more similar to ark . And honestly - 7dtd is not tes or fallout - it doesn't have lore. This is very important for bethesda game - people add enemies "from lore", items etc. 

I didn't say 7D2D is tes, I said tes is successful with mods. And because of this 7D2D doesn't need to care about lore, even if lore were important for TES. Which it isn't. There have been story-rich overhauls of that game which massively change the lore, with success.

Look at the mods available for 7D2D. They are probably very different from typical TES mods. Nearly all of them are about changing game rules, adding recipes, changing them, adding perks, changing perks to skills, adding items and blocks. And sometimes even zombies.

Does any of the new zombies in Darkness Falls conform to some lore that 7D2D doesn't have, as you yourself said? No. Does it hurt that mod? I don't see it

Do the rule changes, for example the weight system for items, in Undead Legacy conform to some lore or need lore to be successfull? Doesn't seem the case.

But most of mods to skyrim are :

1. lore friendly and immersive stuff + improvments.

2. @SnowDog1942 favourite stuff

3. Hahha mods ( like shrek dragon)

TFP decided to cut UMA - this mean a lot of people will stop making characters models. And i don't expect people will create models even close to hd vanilia models. 

I know a lot of games with mods and what? honestly i love Total war ,sw  battlefront 2 classic mods but this games are old- so you have still tools to make models etc.

Okay do you know modder who would make models similar to new HD models of zombies ?  Idk.

Lets assume modders can't make new zombies for 7D2D. I would not care much. You would, but you want different things from this game than I do. Your logic assumes that everyone else has exactly the same desires like you for this game. I'm sure I can easily find dozens of players in this forum who would want to play mods for this game even if not a single additional zombie model were in them.

But 7dtd is not minecraft or skyrim - there is no chance of getting 100+ big pack with good looking enemies guns. 

Modders can't  add everything. So honestly that's true this is not zombie shooter clone - but minecraft clone neither. So only "rly good stuff" you can expect from TFP because they have enough money and tools.

I would agree with you if any modder could "reskin" this - Emmanuel Lecouturier - A Plague Tale : Innocence - Melie (artstation.com) into zombie version of this character and add to 7dtd and i would stop complain about argument  "modders can do X". Until this time 7dtd is like coh2 - it have mods potential but doesn't have enough tool to be game keep alive by modders.

It looks to me like only new zombies and guns would be "rly good stuff" to you. I have seen really good stuff in the mods I mentioned above and it was neither zombie models nor guns.

 

[ShellHead]

I think you’re misunderstanding @Matt115’s point, it looks like to me that he’s saying that lore and model replacements/retextures create good entry points for modders who want to add something to the game which were major things TES had in its favor, i don’t think he’s saying the only mods worth making just so happen to match his personal preferences.

Darkness Falls and Undead Legacy are fantastic mods and they add a great deal, including their own lore, but they were/are difficult to create and maintain, too difficult for all but the most dedicated to do. TES and Minecraft have thriving modding communities not just because the scope and scale of how they can be modded but because there are many good entry points to get into that modding scene. Most mods for both of those games are far closer to new zombie models than Darkness Falls in their scale.

We can argue about whether or not 7D2D has enough of its own good entry points to sustain the community in the long term (XML mods are incredibly easy to do which is definitely a good entry point in my book) but let’s get clear on the argument first.

Models matter to some folks, mechanical changes matter to others, still others like adding new stories. A healthy modding community has all of these and more, regardless of the opinions of the rest of the community, because the more people feel free to make the game their own, the more robust and higher quality the community becomes.

 

[meganoth]

I think you’re misunderstanding @Matt115’s point, it looks like to me that he’s saying that lore and model replacements/retextures create good entry points for modders who want to add something to the game which were major things TES had in its favor, i don’t think he’s saying the only mods worth making just so happen to match his personal preferences.

Darkness Falls and Undead Legacy are fantastic mods and they add a great deal, including their own lore, but they were/are difficult to create and maintain, too difficult for all but the most dedicated to do. TES and Minecraft have thriving modding communities not just because the scope and scale of how they can be modded but because there are many good entry points to get into that modding scene. Most mods for both of those games are far closer to new zombie models than Darkness Falls in their scale.

We can argue about whether or not 7D2D has enough of its own good entry points to sustain the community in the long term (XML mods are incredibly easy to do which is definitely a good entry point in my book) but let’s get clear on the argument first.

Models matter to some folks, mechanical changes matter to others, still others like adding new stories. A healthy modding community has all of these and more, regardless of the opinions of the rest of the community, because the more people feel free to make the game their own, the more robust and higher quality the community becomes.

Very true, but what makes XML less of an entry point than character models? Rereading his post I don't see he is including XML modding into "rly good stuff". His last paragraph can be read your way, but before that he tells us that lore and character models are the important sauce that makes mods successful. He explains what mods are successfull with TES and also assumes that only these can make a modding szene thrive. He might be right (if he really is speaking for the mass of 7D2D players) but I doubt this very much.

Naturally as english is neither his nor my main language it is easy for misunderstandings to develop.

EDIT: As looting is a big part of 7D2D I expect new items and new POIs to be one of the most important and most popular areas for modders to change the game. I can't judge how easy it is in 7D2D to add those compared to bethesda games but it seems adding POIs is pretty well developed and adding items is not rocket science either. There probably are areas where more support might be necessary for really being entry level. But the game is still in alpha and when they add steamworks support after release there is another opportunity to improve such areas.

I don't see that the modding szene in this game would fail even if character models could not be added in the future, too many other areas are well within modders reach. In other words, one pillar missing is not enough for failure and I get the impression that that is Matt115s central prediction

And mods like Darkness Falls being difficult to maintain seems to me mainly to be a result of the alpha status which moves the foundation the modders operate on on a yearly basis. Which naturally doesn't happen very often in the universe of TES games where you only have access to released games

 

[BFT2020]

And mods like Darkness Falls being difficult to maintain seems to me mainly to be a result of the alpha status which moves the foundation the modders operate on on a yearly basis. Which naturally doesn't happen very often in the universe of TES games where you only have access to released games

This point exactly.

When comparing 7D2D to TES and Fallout, everyone is missing a critical difference between them.  Those games are fully launched games whose mods came after the launch; though in the case of Fallout 4, mod support occurred even after the release with Bethesda making changes each time they updated their mod store forcing some mods (Like FSE) to have to be updated.

7D2D is in an Alpha state being pre-Released.  That means things change as the game changed over time, and how mods interface with the various code in the background has changed.  Once 7D2D is in its final release form, maintaining mods will become much simpler.

As for lore, with the work being done on bandits, lore for the game will be developed further for the final release.  We should know more about what caused the world we are surviving in to occur, and who exactly is this mysterious Duke we heard about.

Some of the beliefs that Matt has (and some others) is they are looking at where the game is today which is only a snapshot of where the game is today in its current state.  The final version will have these elements in it when they are ready for it to be released.  Getting the mechanics down right is what the team is working on today, the fluff will come later.

 

[Matt115]

I think you’re misunderstanding @Matt115’s point, it looks like to me that he’s saying that lore and model replacements/retextures create good entry points for modders who want to add something to the game which were major things TES had in its favor, i don’t think he’s saying the only mods worth making just so happen to match his personal preferences.

Darkness Falls and Undead Legacy are fantastic mods and they add a great deal, including their own lore, but they were/are difficult to create and maintain, too difficult for all but the most dedicated to do. TES and Minecraft have thriving modding communities not just because the scope and scale of how they can be modded but because there are many good entry points to get into that modding scene. Most mods for both of those games are far closer to new zombie models than Darkness Falls in their scale.

We can argue about whether or not 7D2D has enough of its own good entry points to sustain the community in the long term (XML mods are incredibly easy to do which is definitely a good entry point in my book) but let’s get clear on the argument first.

Models matter to some folks, mechanical changes matter to others, still others like adding new stories. A healthy modding community has all of these and more, regardless of the opinions of the rest of the community, because the more people feel free to make the game their own, the more robust and higher quality the community becomes.

By lore friendly i was mean " this character/quest/item/mechanic suit to rest to the game with setting. Like - cut their hands mode ! or West company imperial armor.

Very true, but what makes XML less of an entry point than character models? Rereading his post I don't see he is including XML modding into "rly good stuff". His last paragraph can be read your way, but before that he tells us that lore and character models are the important sauce that makes mods successful. He explains what mods are successfull with TES and also assumes that only these can make a modding szene thrive. He might be right (if he really is speaking for the mass of 7D2D players) but I doubt this very much.

Naturally as english is neither his nor my main language it is easy for misunderstandings to develop.

EDIT: As looting is a big part of 7D2D I expect new items and new POIs to be one of the most important and most popular areas for modders to change the game. I can't judge how easy it is in 7D2D to add those compared to bethesda games but it seems adding POIs is pretty well developed and adding items is not rocket science either. There probably are areas where more support might be necessary for really being entry level. But the game is still in alpha and when they add steamworks support after release there is another opportunity to improve such areas.

I don't see that the modding szene in this game would fail even if character models could not be added in the future, too many other areas are well within modders reach. In other words, one pillar missing is not enough for failure and I get the impression that that is Matt115s central prediction

And mods like Darkness Falls being difficult to maintain seems to me mainly to be a result of the alpha status which moves the foundation the modders operate on on a yearly basis. Which naturally doesn't happen very often in the universe of TES games where you only have access to released games

What XML make less entry point that character models... okay :

For example you some can create mod changing stats - it will be probably without new models? Yes "just change value" not adding new models. Well ofc people import models from diffrent games but quality of this models are random- well alma in f.e.a.r  looks good but it is too "old" for 7dtd ( but well one of the best looking models btw). Well guns from cs 1.6 looks good in this game but it would not so good in 7dtd. So "orginal" models are important for future in my opinion.  Well about POI- we have tons of orginal POI so until wood rework i think we just can't have better POI that vanilia . Well i don't think some could recreate airport from L4D1 with crashed plane. 

So maybe "system and mechanic" mods are creating rly good but without "models tool" it is not enough- i think a lot of people thing is important not only which gun you use but what is your target too  .

Well some mods can add good mechanic but without new enemies , good looking guns etc will be like this same cars but with diffrent colours and size - but some people need trucks 

Honestly "new system" mods are important- in skyrim you can find cold or immersive sleepbags mods.  This same type of mods like darkness falls. But "more enemy " mods are important too xd. 

And for my even most comlicated system with sleeping, eating, making sh** etc will be not complet without new zombie or diffrent enemy types. I know there is few more enemy types mods but : they are UMA or added from diffrent game- well this is nothing bad- alma can suit but zombie from cod not

This point exactly.

When comparing 7D2D to TES and Fallout, everyone is missing a critical difference between them.  Those games are fully launched games whose mods came after the launch; though in the case of Fallout 4, mod support occurred even after the release with Bethesda making changes each time they updated their mod store forcing some mods (Like FSE) to have to be updated.

7D2D is in an Alpha state being pre-Released.  That means things change as the game changed over time, and how mods interface with the various code in the background has changed.  Once 7D2D is in its final release form, maintaining mods will become much simpler.

As for lore, with the work being done on bandits, lore for the game will be developed further for the final release.  We should know more about what caused the world we are surviving in to occur, and who exactly is this mysterious Duke we heard about.

Some of the beliefs that Matt has (and some others) is they are looking at where the game is today which is only a snapshot of where the game is today in its current state.  The final version will have these elements in it when they are ready for it to be released.  Getting the mechanics down right is what the team is working on today, the fluff will come later.

Lore in this meaning mean "setting" but in nexus you have lore friendly category- i will give you example : long bosmer sword mod would suit to Skyrim, barefoot ragged orphan too,  to fallout will suit sherman tank or zombies but into skyrim can't suit m16 and into fallout green big ass elf sorcerer right?

Btw i hope we will get tools to create good quality models of zombie bandits etc in the future but until that i can't say mods will help a lot  ofc some people prefere roleplay or pvp but this is not my type. for me enemies and tool to keep you alive are more important

 

[ShellHead]

Very true, but what makes XML less of an entry point than character models?

I wouldn’t say that it is less of one but rather one that appeals to those who want to tinker with mechanics under the hood as opposed to largely visual changes that don’t change underlying mechanics. It’s more about easy access to a variety of modding “spheres” for lack of a better word.

Rereading his post I don't see he is including XML modding into "rly good stuff". His last paragraph can be read your way, but before that he tells us that lore and character models are the important sauce that makes mods successful. He explains what mods are successfull with TES and also assumes that only these can make a modding szene thrive. He might be right (if he really is speaking for the mass of 7D2D players) but I doubt this very much.

I’d have to ask @Matt115 but i interpreted that as talking more about what he felt 7D2D should add to help the modding community grow rather than talking about what has already made the community as strong as it is. That was just my reading of it though, his more doom ‘n’ gloom language struck me as more rhetorical hyperbole to emphasize the point.

And mods like Darkness Falls being difficult to maintain seems to me mainly to be a result of the alpha status which moves the foundation the modders operate on on a yearly basis. Which naturally doesn't happen very often in the universe of TES games where you only have access to released games

This point exactly.

When comparing 7D2D to TES and Fallout, everyone is missing a critical difference between them.  Those games are fully launched games whose mods came after the launch; though in the case of Fallout 4, mod support occurred even after the release with Bethesda making changes each time they updated their mod store forcing some mods (Like FSE) to have to be updated.

7D2D is in an Alpha state being pre-Released.  That means things change as the game changed over time, and how mods interface with the various code in the background has changed.  Once 7D2D is in its final release form, maintaining mods will become much simpler.

As for lore, with the work being done on bandits, lore for the game will be developed further for the final release.  We should know more about what caused the world we are surviving in to occur, and who exactly is this mysterious Duke we heard about.

Some of the beliefs that Matt has (and some others) is they are looking at where the game is today which is only a snapshot of where the game is today in its current state.  The final version will have these elements in it when they are ready for it to be released.  Getting the mechanics down right is what the team is working on today, the fluff will come later.

While it is definitely true that 7D2D’s alpha state makes maintenance more difficult and also does not actually show the game in its entirety, my point was about the sheer scale of the changes made in the mod being daunting for people who are just dipping their toes into modding. Mods like UL and DF are some of the highest end mods it’s possible to make, massive in impact and scope, newbie modders (which are critical for long-term community health) aren’t going to try to make their own versions. The issue is “what mods could they make on the path towards making the next Darkness Falls?” Which brings us back to entry points, but there is an additional factor: Visibility. XML changes have robust mechanical alterations but the game has little visible change, not everyone wants visible change more than mechanical change but as it currently stands, modders who want major visible changes have fewer easy options than modders who don’t care as much about visibility. I wouldn’t say that 7D2D is doomed by any stretch of the imagination but questions should always be asked “can we make this even better?”

The game shouldn’t be judged as a final product yet but this is also the time to bring up points of concern, it’s up to TFP to determine what is of concern to them.

 

[JCrook1028]

For example you some can create mod changing stats - it will be probably without new models? Yes "just change value" not adding new models. Well ofc people import models from diffrent games but quality of this models are random

Well ofc. But new models CAN be added. If the modder is either good at 3d modeling then they can add high quality HD models. If they are not they can buy stock assets, of varying degrees of quality. So everything you say about models goes right out the window. New models at high quality can be added. Fact. New story can be added like in Darkness Falls. Fact. Entire new mechanic systems like weight and learn by doing in Undead Legacy can be added. Fact. New locations and maps can be added. Fact. What cannot be added?

 

[Matt115]

I’d have to ask @Matt115 but i interpreted that as talking more about what he felt 7D2D should add to help the modding community grow rather than talking about what has already made the community as strong as it is. That was just my reading of it though, his more doom ‘n’ gloom language struck me as more rhetorical hyperbole to emphasize the point.

.

Well - more i mean " community do a lof but it is a lot to do still so if you to keep this on surface after 7dtd get gold you guys need more "big thing""

Well ofc. But new models CAN be added. If the modder is either good at 3d modeling then they can add high quality HD models. If they are not they can buy stock assets, of varying degrees of quality. So everything you say about models goes right out the window. New models at high quality can be added. Fact. New story can be added like in Darkness Falls. Fact. Entire new mechanic systems like weight and learn by doing in Undead Legacy can be added. Fact. New locations and maps can be added. Fact. What cannot be added?

If can be added why we don't have something like "immersive creatures" from skyrim or "extended common infected to l4d2? Most of pack are uma pack or " put everything  we have no matter  how it is looke" - sometimes if you want to add something you need to make something

I will give you example-  TFP doesn't want to add zombie teens --> so only way to get it are mods--> okay you can take Alma from f.e.a.r. - but  not from nmrih because models connected with source engine will looks strange ,  modern games have good "protection" so you can't trasfer files so easly so days gone well is gone XD --> so someone need to make model which can suit to 7dtd. 

Ofc you can put to 7dtd nazi zombie from WaW but... do you think it will suit there? me neither

So Do you now get my point?

 

[BFT2020]

While it is definitely true that 7D2D’s alpha state makes maintenance more difficult and also does not actually show the game in its entirety, my point was about the sheer scale of the changes made in the mod being daunting for people who are just dipping their toes into modding. Mods like UL and DF are some of the highest end mods it’s possible to make, massive in impact and scope, newbie modders (which are critical for long-term community health) aren’t going to try to make their own versions.

I think this is true for any mods out there today for any game.  Two games I still play that are heavily modded are Skyrim and Fallout 4.  Some mods are simple that I installed, while others do a complete overhaul.  For example, Sim Settlements and Sim Settlements 2 are mods that affect the game in a major way.  Neither of those mods (though both are from the same creation team) are ones a newbie should undertake.  And these mods have limitations caused by the game engine itself (if you don't understand what I mean, install SS2 and then build a massive community at Sanctuary, Red Rocket, and Abernathy farm - then get back to me when you are dealing with constant CTDs).

XML edits are more for the newbie modders as long as that person is willing to learn the code (not hard) and ask questions to the modding community.  Overhauls are more for those with the skillsets to introduce new assets and make changes under the hood.  7D2D is the first game that I have ever started to do my own mod (xml style edits) and I been gaming for some time now.  The ease to do this types of changes after learning how to XPath shows how easy it is to jump into modding this game.  I never tried to do this with the other games I enjoy in modded states.

 

[BFT2020]

I will give you example-  TFP doesn't want to add zombie teens --> so only way to get it are mods--> okay you can take Alma from f.e.a.r. - but  not from nmrih because models connected with source engine will looks strange ,  modern games have good "protection" so you can't trasfer files so easly so days gone well is gone XD --> so someone need to make model which can suit to 7dtd. 

Which is exactly what everyone has been saying.  Anything added after game is final release (unless TFP does DLC for this game) will have to come from the modding community and they will have to do the work for it.

KhaineGB is a good example of a modder in this community.  He has two major mods right now, Darkness Falls and Romero mod (along with some smaller modlets).  Unless we break the poor guy  he will release final versions of those mods after the game reaches its final release.  He might even do more mods down the road, or he might decide he has done enough mods and now just wants to play the games.

If zombie teens is something you want, you will have to wait until someone else does the work (design the models, build the mod, and publish it) or you will have to learn to do it yourself if it something you really want.  TFP have discussed about shoring up the modding portion of the game, and have done a lot of work already communicating out about the various things involved in modding the game.  Just open up some of the xml files and you will see notes from Gazz in them explaining things.

 

[ShellHead]

I think this is true for any mods out there today for any game.  Two games I still play that are heavily modded are Skyrim and Fallout 4.  Some mods are simple that I installed, while others do a complete overhaul.  For example, Sim Settlements and Sim Settlements 2 are mods that affect the game in a major way.  Neither of those mods (though both are from the same creation team) are ones a newbie should undertake.  And these mods have limitations caused by the game engine itself (if you don't understand what I mean, install SS2 and then build a massive community at Sanctuary, Red Rocket, and Abernathy farm - then get back to me when you are dealing with constant CTDs).

XML edits are more for the newbie modders as long as that person is willing to learn the code (not hard) and ask questions to the modding community.  Overhauls are more for those with the skillsets to introduce new assets and make changes under the hood.  7D2D is the first game that I have ever started to do my own mod (xml style edits) and I been gaming for some time now.  The ease to do this types of changes after learning how to XPath shows how easy it is to jump into modding this game.  I never tried to do this with the other games I enjoy in modded states.

I agree with all of this, and i’m not saying that 7D2D is hard to mod in general or anything like that. What i’m talking about is making sure that modding in All of its forms is made as easy as possible, a huge number of the mods for FO and TES are retextures and new models in addition to mechanical changes and new systems.

 

[Matt115]

Which is exactly what everyone has been saying.  Anything added after game is final release (unless TFP does DLC for this game) will have to come from the modding community and they will have to do the work for it.

KhaineGB is a good example of a modder in this community.  He has two major mods right now, Darkness Falls and Romero mod (along with some smaller modlets).  Unless we break the poor guy  he will release final versions of those mods after the game reaches its final release.  He might even do more mods down the road, or he might decide he has done enough mods and now just wants to play the games.

If zombie teens is something you want, you will have to wait until someone else does the work (design the models, build the mod, and publish it) or you will have to learn to do it yourself if it something you really want.  TFP have discussed about shoring up the modding portion of the game, and have done a lot of work already communicating out about the various things involved in modding the game.  Just open up some of the xml files and you will see notes from Gazz in them explaining things.

I gave example what can be add in theory but is hard to do practicaly.  

His mods more change things that add thing :

Romeo mod :

Zombies only take full damage from headshots. - change stats - Bloodmoons disabled. Change system- Included Jax's Wilderness Spawn increase modlet (5x more zombies) - change system - Added a difficulty tweaks mod to remove damage reduction from higher difficulties.- change system- Removed zombie rage mode. - change system- Added 10 slot toolbelt. change stats- Added backpack stash buttons. - change stats system- Added craftable log spikes. - bring something what was cutted - Added ability to pick up plants with E. - change system- Removed cop ability to puke. - change skill zombie let's say balance change- Removed radiated vulture ability to puke. ^- Wandering hordes start from Day 2 at midnight. change system- Wandering horde configured to 30 zombies every 6 hours. change system- Wandering horde frequency and zombie amount can now be configured by XML (1-RomeroModCore\Config\blocks.xml at the top) change system- Added guppys PUSHABLE shopping cart (works like a bicycle for stam usage). idk how this looks- Added scrap iron arrows and arrow heads.  bring back thing- Added scrap club, scrap knuckles, scrap machete and scrap spear. if they have diffrent models that vanilia- Added Pipe Pistol and Pipe Rifle. new models okay- Edited loot to remove stone arrows, leather knuckles, stone spear and wooden clubs from loot (replaced with scrap). Balance- Edited loot to remove stone tools and replaced with scrap tools. balance- Moved iron tools, baseball bat, iron knuckles, iron spear and hunting knife from Level 1 of appropriate perk to Level 3 (localization updated to reflect this). balance- Scrap tools/weapons now locked behind schematics or level 1 of appropriate perk. (scrap arrows are NOT locked). balance

Darkness fall :

• 8 Classes to choose from, with 6 quests each! - change of system 
  
• 96 slot backpack! 12 slot crafting queue!- change of system
  
• Custom UI! Food/Water bars next to the hotbar. - change of hud but this is diffent 
  
• Increased zombie spawn/respawn rate! - change of system
  
• Night time is now dangerous. The ferals come out to play... - change of balance/ system
  
• Zombie Behemoth (male and female) added! - new models + 
  
• Scrap Iron Tools added. Iron requires level 15. change of balance
  
• Titanium added! Can be found as trophies, underground and above ground. Used to make tools, weapons and blocks. - new  ore and items probably new models so good
  
• Forge Ahead & Leather Tanning books are back! (can also be purchased as perks) - bring back something
  
• Wrench is now a perk and a schematic, but crafted and repaired with Iron. - balance
  
• All common books added as perks, so you have the choice of finding the book or spending points. - balance
  
• Action skills are back! - balance
  
• Skill books added for all 100 level skills. - balance
  
• Generic skill point book added so you have ways to get skill points. - balance or system
  
• Skill notes! Find a recipe you already have? Scrap it into a skill note and craft that into something more useful. - balance or live improvment
  
• Extra crops! Grow apple, orange banana and coconut trees, plus wheat, carrots and tomatos! - probably new models or icons so good ^^
  
• More food! Way too much to list, but bread is now an option. So are sunday roast dinners. YUM! - new models or icons
  
• Animal Coops and Snares from Valmod added. - idk well this is from diffrent mod so itd?
  
• Clay bowls are back, and used for more than just pretty plants! - bring back
  
• Craftable Small Engines and Lead Batteries! - balance
  
• Several new guns! Like the P225 Pistol, AR-15 Automatic Rifle, Winchester Rifle and Combat Shotgun. - new models so okay
  
• Gun crafting! Gun parts are back and require the rare, find-only Lathe to be crafted. - change of system
  
• Arrows can now use cloth fragments instead of feathers. Sticks and Sharp Stones have also made a return! - balance
  
• Tree sap is now a thing! Try left-clicking on non-dead trees with jars or bowls... - system
  
• Sterile Bandage! New healing item to fill the void between normal Bandages and First Aid Bandages. - it's depends - new  model or not?
  
• Working sinks and ovens! Both types craftable, so pick whichever matches your kitchen. - balance
  
• 5 new workstations. The Advanced Forge (required to smelt steel, but no fuel needed!), the Mortar and Pestle and two workbenches! There is also the rare, loot-only, Lathe! - new models
  
• Stone hammer added. Counts as a construction tool. Used only for repairing and upgrading. - new model okay
  
• Lockpicks added! Now you can lockpick all safes and most doors. - we have this in vanilia so itd
  
• Steel crossbow added that takes steel, exploding and titanium bolts. Both crossbows can be scoped. - new models probably 
  
• Combat axe added. There's also a titanium version. - new models
  
• Trader's are no longer protected! Take care of your local business! - change of balance
  
• Guards added to the trader, with a Guard Captain NPC! Talk to them to buy quest starters, which can earn you skill notes! (Single player only due to server bugs) - if this add new models okay
  
• Larger player-crafted storage (kitchen cabinets, lockable!). idk if this add new models or not
  
• Time REMOVED from under the compass and on the map. Added to the trader window (under restock time).
  
• Junction box added for invisible wires. Unlocked via electricity perk.
  
• Bomber zombies added! These @%$*#!s are designed to tear your base to bits. You have been warned! -vanilia
  
• 7 Day hordes re-done (less game stages so difficulty should ramp up faster and ferals appear sooner).
  
• Writing Desk, Ink and Quill available! Used together, these halve the cost of creating skill books and class papers.
  
• Grass spawns reduced for better performance/easier to see things.
  
• Traders now have more basic materials for building. - balance
  
• Localization HEAVILY edited to show where items are crafted, including if they can be made in multiple workstations (one will have a reduced resource cost) and what tools may be needed. - balance
  
• Compo pack added! - ?
  
• Hornet from A15 and earlier is back, with it's original sounds and model! Keep an eye out for them in forest biomes. - return
  
• Trader Caitlin has arrived! She has her own POI, her own voice, lives in the wasteland and carries the most powerful items. - idk this depend on model
  

So most of things from this mods are " change of stats " or balance but only few new models are added. Ofc few things are back but it was created by TFP so i don't count them- this things are TFP work. 

So i don't say this mods are good or not. This is not my point- my point is: there is small  number of mods adding "new things" -   

Subquake's Undead Legacy                    well some thing's looks like "this could be in basic game for sure" some of them looks like random models well like asset flips

       Vehicle Madness      done of the best looking mods- i thing 90% cars could be in 7dtd for sure but some of them looks too much as toys not rly cars  but still one of the best mods

I don't want to be rude but for example : @Snufkin add a lot of custom models and that's is good but it's looks like - we put everything everywhere like in asian f2p fps.

Ofc he put a lot of work in this but my point is : we don't have lore ofc so setting will be better word and we have a rly only few vanilia setting friendly mods

 

[meganoth]

By lore friendly i was mean " this character/quest/item/mechanic suit to rest to the game with setting. Like - cut their hands mode ! or West company imperial armor.

Ok. But what indications do you have that mods have to suit the rest of the game ? https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11857/ is just one of many examples of fallout mods that don't care the slightest about the setting. I'm sure many of the "haha" mods you listed as popular for TES have nothing to do with the setting. All the porn mods don't care about the setting and as you say they are hugely popular. 7D2D has one or two fantasy mods and the Undead Legacy mod has all sorts of ancient weapons and japanese katanas Darkness Falls has science fiction laser rifles.

There is a massive amount of mods breaking lore.

What XML make less entry point that character models... okay :

For example you some can create mod changing stats - it will be probably without new models? Yes "just change value" not adding new models. Well ofc people import models from diffrent games but quality of this models are random- well alma in f.e.a.r  looks good but it is too "old" for 7dtd ( but well one of the best looking models btw). Well guns from cs 1.6 looks good in this game but it would not so good in 7dtd. So "orginal" models are important for future in my opinion. 

Well, but simple xml changing mods without new models are the easy entry points into modding which provides one important piece of the puzzle, how new modders are created.

And new models?  So what if they are substandard? That is how modders start, with substandard stuff until they get better at it. I have seen hundreds of new weapons and guns and items in 7D2D mods and many of them are as good as in-game stuff. Just check out the oil pump in Undead Legacy, it is a high quality moving(!) object.  Is it easily done by novice modders? Absolutely not. But surely TES modders as well don't start as experts and create top models immediately. They have to learn modding and asset creation just like everybody else.

Well about POI- we have tons of orginal POI so until wood rework i think we just can't have better POI that vanilia .

Compopack is a popular collection of POIs even though they are of mixed quality and mostly don't adhere to vanilla style. Why are they popular? Because the tons of original POIs are not enough after someone has played several hundred hours. And it seems most people don't care as much about their quality.

Well i don't think some could recreate airport from L4D1 with crashed plane. 

So maybe "system and mechanic" mods are creating rly good but without "models tool" it is not enough- i think a lot of people thing is important not only which gun you use but what is your target too  .

Well some mods can add good mechanic but without new enemies , good looking guns etc will be like this same cars but with diffrent colours and size - but some people need trucks 

Honestly "new system" mods are important- in skyrim you can find cold or immersive sleepbags mods.  This same type of mods like darkness falls. But "more enemy " mods are important too xd. 

And for my even most comlicated system with sleeping, eating, making sh** etc will be not complet without new zombie or diffrent enemy types. I know there is few more enemy types mods but : they are UMA or added from diffrent game- well this is nothing bad- alma can suit but zombie from cod not

Lore in this meaning mean "setting" but in nexus you have lore friendly category- i will give you example : long bosmer sword mod would suit to Skyrim, barefoot ragged orphan too,  to fallout will suit sherman tank or zombies but into skyrim can't suit m16 and into fallout green big ass elf sorcerer right?

Btw i hope we will get tools to create good quality models of zombie bandits etc in the future but until that i can't say mods will help a lot  ofc some people prefere roleplay or pvp but this is not my type. for me enemies and tool to keep you alive are more important

 

[Matt115]

Ok. But what indications do you have that mods have to suit the rest of the game ? https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11857/ is just one of many examples of fallout mods that don't care the slightest about the setting. I'm sure many of the "haha" mods you listed as popular for TES have nothing to do with the setting. All the porn mods don't care about the setting and as you say they are hugely popular. 7D2D has one or two fantasy mods and the Undead Legacy mod has all sorts of ancient weapons and japanese katanas Darkness Falls has science fiction laser rifles.

There is a massive amount of mods breaking lore.

Well, but simple xml changing mods without new models are the easy entry points into modding which provides one important piece of the puzzle, how new modders are created.

And new models?  So what if they are substandard? That is how modders start, with substandard stuff until they get better at it. I have seen hundreds of new weapons and guns and items in 7D2D mods and many of them are as good as in-game stuff. Just check out the oil pump in Undead Legacy, it is a high quality moving(!) object.  Is it easily done by novice modders? Absolutely not. But surely TES modders as well don't start as experts and create top models immediately. They have to learn modding and asset creation just like everybody else.

Compopack is a popular collection of POIs even though they are of mixed quality and mostly don't adhere to vanilla style. Why are they popular? Because the tons of original POIs are not enough after someone has played several hundred hours. And it seems most people don't care as much about their quality.

Well i think something was cutted under last part.

But for the rest :

1.Yep i know there is tons of "haha" mods to fallout too this same sitation like skyrim.  okay "haha" i mean something like - shrek as tank in l4d2, tom the train as dragon in skyrim, random anime voices in for example zombie maps etc.  Btw @Snufkin pack are just like that.  And yeah there is massive amount of mods breaking lore but there is lot of lore friendly mods to- and most mods to 7dtd are "changes in crafting. looting zombie spawning etc" category or "haha" mods/

2. Well i know people are learing how to doing thing - i understand that, well this is rly good and i support this. Honestly well skyrim have strange story. Well tools was similiar in morrowind and oblivion so it was easier to learn.  Btw undead legacy looks good , rly nice models etc ( but this green menu looks to much like retro game) so i can agree with this mod. Honestly i was thinking it was added in 2016 and abbadoned.

3. And they doesn't care to kill this same few zombies over and over again. i don't understand that- well most shops can looks almost this same (standardization of shop happens in rly life too ) , skyscrapers etc but I don't even see point to get into another house- okay this looks diffrent but nothing more- this same zombies you will meet everywhere. Vanilia POI looks good and that's all i don't see point to go cementary without coffin perk . or to church or to small cabin- But no matter if i went to hospital, clothes zombie i will meet this same zombie (ofc some types of zombie are connected with poi but this types of zombie you can sometimes meet somewhere). 

So damn i want to see good quality zombie pack. Probably i will need to wait until this game get gold but i'm just worried if even after that it will not happen. 

Well i know i will never could learn how to makes mods or models. Or drawn. 

So i just hope we will get good expansion pack which will maybe at least in small part fulfill my hopes.

 

[meganoth]

I gave example what can be add in theory but is hard to do practicaly.  

His mods more change things that add thing :

Romeo mod :

Zombies only take full damage from headshots. - change stats - Bloodmoons disabled. Change system- Included Jax's Wilderness Spawn increase modlet (5x more zombies) - change system - Added a difficulty tweaks mod to remove damage reduction from higher difficulties.- change system- Removed zombie rage mode. - change system- Added 10 slot toolbelt. change stats- Added backpack stash buttons. - change stats system- Added craftable log spikes. - bring something what was cutted - Added ability to pick up plants with E. - change system- Removed cop ability to puke. - change skill zombie let's say balance change- Removed radiated vulture ability to puke. ^- Wandering hordes start from Day 2 at midnight. change system- Wandering horde configured to 30 zombies every 6 hours. change system- Wandering horde frequency and zombie amount can now be configured by XML (1-RomeroModCore\Config\blocks.xml at the top) change system- Added guppys PUSHABLE shopping cart (works like a bicycle for stam usage). idk how this looks- Added scrap iron arrows and arrow heads.  bring back thing- Added scrap club, scrap knuckles, scrap machete and scrap spear. if they have diffrent models that vanilia- Added Pipe Pistol and Pipe Rifle. new models okay- Edited loot to remove stone arrows, leather knuckles, stone spear and wooden clubs from loot (replaced with scrap). Balance- Edited loot to remove stone tools and replaced with scrap tools. balance- Moved iron tools, baseball bat, iron knuckles, iron spear and hunting knife from Level 1 of appropriate perk to Level 3 (localization updated to reflect this). balance- Scrap tools/weapons now locked behind schematics or level 1 of appropriate perk. (scrap arrows are NOT locked). balance

Darkness fall :

• 8 Classes to choose from, with 6 quests each! - change of system 
  
• 96 slot backpack! 12 slot crafting queue!- change of system
  
• Custom UI! Food/Water bars next to the hotbar. - change of hud but this is diffent 
  
• Increased zombie spawn/respawn rate! - change of system
  
• Night time is now dangerous. The ferals come out to play... - change of balance/ system
  
• Zombie Behemoth (male and female) added! - new models + 
  
• Scrap Iron Tools added. Iron requires level 15. change of balance
  
• Titanium added! Can be found as trophies, underground and above ground. Used to make tools, weapons and blocks. - new  ore and items probably new models so good
  
• Forge Ahead & Leather Tanning books are back! (can also be purchased as perks) - bring back something
  
• Wrench is now a perk and a schematic, but crafted and repaired with Iron. - balance
  
• All common books added as perks, so you have the choice of finding the book or spending points. - balance
  
• Action skills are back! - balance
  
• Skill books added for all 100 level skills. - balance
  
• Generic skill point book added so you have ways to get skill points. - balance or system
  
• Skill notes! Find a recipe you already have? Scrap it into a skill note and craft that into something more useful. - balance or live improvment
  
• Extra crops! Grow apple, orange banana and coconut trees, plus wheat, carrots and tomatos! - probably new models or icons so good ^^
  
• More food! Way too much to list, but bread is now an option. So are sunday roast dinners. YUM! - new models or icons
  
• Animal Coops and Snares from Valmod added. - idk well this is from diffrent mod so itd?
  
• Clay bowls are back, and used for more than just pretty plants! - bring back
  
• Craftable Small Engines and Lead Batteries! - balance
  
• Several new guns! Like the P225 Pistol, AR-15 Automatic Rifle, Winchester Rifle and Combat Shotgun. - new models so okay
  
• Gun crafting! Gun parts are back and require the rare, find-only Lathe to be crafted. - change of system
  
• Arrows can now use cloth fragments instead of feathers. Sticks and Sharp Stones have also made a return! - balance
  
• Tree sap is now a thing! Try left-clicking on non-dead trees with jars or bowls... - system
  
• Sterile Bandage! New healing item to fill the void between normal Bandages and First Aid Bandages. - it's depends - new  model or not?
  
• Working sinks and ovens! Both types craftable, so pick whichever matches your kitchen. - balance
  
• 5 new workstations. The Advanced Forge (required to smelt steel, but no fuel needed!), the Mortar and Pestle and two workbenches! There is also the rare, loot-only, Lathe! - new models
  
• Stone hammer added. Counts as a construction tool. Used only for repairing and upgrading. - new model okay
  
• Lockpicks added! Now you can lockpick all safes and most doors. - we have this in vanilia so itd
  
• Steel crossbow added that takes steel, exploding and titanium bolts. Both crossbows can be scoped. - new models probably 
  
• Combat axe added. There's also a titanium version. - new models
  
• Trader's are no longer protected! Take care of your local business! - change of balance
  
• Guards added to the trader, with a Guard Captain NPC! Talk to them to buy quest starters, which can earn you skill notes! (Single player only due to server bugs) - if this add new models okay
  
• Larger player-crafted storage (kitchen cabinets, lockable!). idk if this add new models or not
  
• Time REMOVED from under the compass and on the map. Added to the trader window (under restock time).
  
• Junction box added for invisible wires. Unlocked via electricity perk.
  
• Bomber zombies added! These @%$*#!s are designed to tear your base to bits. You have been warned! -vanilia
  
• 7 Day hordes re-done (less game stages so difficulty should ramp up faster and ferals appear sooner).
  
• Writing Desk, Ink and Quill available! Used together, these halve the cost of creating skill books and class papers.
  
• Grass spawns reduced for better performance/easier to see things.
  
• Traders now have more basic materials for building. - balance
  
• Localization HEAVILY edited to show where items are crafted, including if they can be made in multiple workstations (one will have a reduced resource cost) and what tools may be needed. - balance
  
• Compo pack added! - ?
  
• Hornet from A15 and earlier is back, with it's original sounds and model! Keep an eye out for them in forest biomes. - return
  
• Trader Caitlin has arrived! She has her own POI, her own voice, lives in the wasteland and carries the most powerful items. - idk this depend on model
  

So most of things from this mods are " change of stats " or balance but only few new models are added. Ofc few things are back but it was created by TFP so i don't count them- this things are TFP work. 

So i don't say this mods are good or not. This is not my point- my point is: there is small  number of mods adding "new things" -   

Subquake's Undead Legacy                    well some thing's looks like "this could be in basic game for sure" some of them looks like random models well like asset flips

       Vehicle Madness      done of the best looking mods- i thing 90% cars could be in 7dtd for sure but some of them looks too much as toys not rly cars  but still one of the best mods

I don't want to be rude but for example : @Snufkin add a lot of custom models and that's is good but it's looks like - we put everything everywhere like in asian f2p fps.

Ofc he put a lot of work in this but my point is : we don't have lore ofc so setting will be better word and we have a rly only few vanilia setting friendly mods

If I had to sum this up I would say you are not satisfied with the number of new assets and models in the 7D2d modding scene. Is that accurate?

Well, if you compare it to the TES modding scene that comparison isn't really fair. The TES engine was used for multiple games since 2002. Lots of games, stable for many years compared to 0 (depending how you count) for TFP games. A community of 58 Mio. players compared to maybe 2-4 Mio.

And a huge modding community also means a lot more modding tools created by that community in addition to developer-made tools.

There is a reason TES has so many more assets.

 

[Matt115]

If I had to sum this up I would say you are not satisfied with the number of new assets and models in the 7D2d modding scene. Is that accurate?

Well, if you compare it to the TES modding scene that comparison isn't really fair. The TES engine was used for multiple games since 2002. Lots of games, stable for many years compared to 0 (depending how you count) for TFP games. A community of 58 Mio. players compared to maybe 2-4 Mio.

And a huge modding community also means a lot more modding tools created by that community in addition to developer-made tools.

There is a reason TES has so many more assets.

Almost correct: i will give you example : undead legacy looks rly good and realistic ( okay let's say there a 3 simple type of zombie setting : 1. realistic - days gone ,the last of us , l4d2, world war z 2. not realistic but we are trying to be seriouse - cod waw, nza 1 and 2 , resident evil,  dead space 3 zombie are for fun- dead rising 4)- just this mod need in my opinion some "outbreak assets" - posters on wall , crashed cars , destroyed tank, corpse piles, hanging bodies - well you know something like walking dead or l4d2 and more zombie types- well if only guns in 7dtd were pistol shotgun , mp5 and m16 , hunting and sniper rifles i woudn't complain- this is logical- less types of weapons mean less parts this same ammo type you know logistic stuff. But if i see another woman  zombie with one eye in this same building i feel some much "whatever"- this same problem i have with cod in outbreak maps except armada - you see this same zombie woman, burned corpse or guy in leather jacket i have just feeling " another this same zombie, okay i'm done with exfil " - on "round base" maps  i don't have this problem- it is logical that german soldiers look similiar, this same thing with soviet soldier right? So small amount of zombie variants give me some "clone syndom" and i just can't play for some time because i feel boring - well pois are great , looting too,quest are good etc. but this small thing make me just tired.  

So i hope after 1.0 version we maybe 50 realistic ( let's say zombies in vanilia style) zombie variants mod and i will happy with that hah if someone want description how they could looks like  i can write without problem 

 

[JCrook1028]

If can be added why we don't have something like "immersive creatures" from skyrim or "extended common infected to l4d2?

Because no one has wanted it enough to do it. Btw, there have been mods with children zombies. I think it was the winter mod? I could be remembering wrong on which it was. That was interesting because the entire world was buried down below snow, you had to dig down into POI's.