PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[TWORDY]

I`m glad that blunderbuss is no longer a basic starting weapon for a few reasons.

First of all, the one type of ammo dedicated exclusively for one particular gun is going to be removed which I reckon is a huge plus, especially in the early game without having a bigger backpack, etc. Reloading the blunderbuss took ages just only to give one shot, and hopefully an accurate one. On top of my personal issues without having any skill assigned to "running and gunning" the player just slowed down drastically while refilling the weapon. I wish only that default player movement would be something at 1pt in "running and gunning" assigned, feels more natural when it comes to movement and the game seems much more responsive and enjoyable at least for me. For me to make blunderbuss worthwhile I had to carry like 2 of them and constantly shuffle between them. 

If someone feels nostalgic about blunderbuss I would leave it behind a book or something. Simply make this peculiar weapon ridiculously powerful at really close range like 1,5 meters. Having blunderbuss as a day 1 weapon is just a huge misunderstanding so far... I`m playing 7DTD for a long time so blunderbuss is no longer a problem for me to cope with, it`s an oddly satisfying weapon in some sense. But for someone new to the game is a small of a bit of surprise.

I believe that instead of blunderbuss ammo we all gonna receive more than 9mm and so on. Honestly, I would like to see less ammo in the forest biome, so players would have to opt for more melee combat. Instead, the radiated zone could be rich with all types of munitions. Again, the risk and reward factor is the most fun thing ever. 

 

[samljer]

Packages have unique tokens. For some you can compare cInfo sender vs. instance.sender (instance being the package). If cInfo Sender != instance.sender, for some packages, its a clear catch. However. it starts getting ridiculous with some packages like NetPackageDamageEntity. Here's some example of me watching zombies run against barbed wire.

View attachment 20640

View attachment 20639

So my client sends the server the info that those zombies took damage. That makes it nearly impossible to differentiate between valid packages of mismatch between entityIDs and invalid ones (e.g. spoofing ids). 

The issue with executing commands is that you can make your client execute them without the server knowing. For as long as the server is not in control but acts mostly as a distributor of info between a bunch of single player games, this wont change, and the network optimization/netcode will remain poor. 

First thing i learned was the server should do EVERYTHING, no matter what it is, how big, or how small.

The clients should only ever be a window to whats happening on the server.

with the exception of, if i remember my classes right... player movements, which should be validated on the server; and rejected if not possible.

this removes the clients perceived input lag. i dont remember fully.

 

[MechanicalLens]

I see what you did there.  A rib tickler for sure...

I had a gut feeling someone would make that pun.

 

[Roland]

this is not quiet hard- spamming quest+mining in night if you put setting 120 min day   and put everything in intellect when you friend doing something else. so it let you have sometimes crossbown very fast. so it can be done. ofc it works on a18 . but i'm sure it could be done if you friend is doing dwarfs  things ( mining and cutting tree all 120 min + upgrading base). blunderbass was good option. 

ofc if it can be done on a19? idk because my friend have problem with laptop and get aversion to 7dtd because he say it became kinda boring,  now only play in l4d2 , euro truck 2 and coh2 ( well and yakuza 0 but this single game). 

You are playing A18 and having A19 conversations!? A18 was notorious for getting lots of guns early--even on day 1. That was nerfed in a significant way for A19. You should know that most people on this forum are expressing opinions and sharing feedback about the current version and not making claims about the balance of weaponry based on how the game played a year and a half ago.

 

[Jost Amman]

19 minutes ago, stupid said:

I hope in A20 they expand upon the weird noises at night. That deep pounding/fluttering sound is terrifying, and it's hard to describe what it is, which makes it even more disturbing.  I'd like to see more random noises at night that are difficult to make sense of. Maybe even some 20-23hz ambience. For some reason this sound frequency gives a really uneasy feeling. Here's a sample 

You forgot your generator on...

 

[Matt115]

You are playing A18 and having A19 conversations!? A18 was notorious for getting lots of guns early--even on day 1. That was nerfed in a significant way for A19. You should know that most people on this forum are expressing opinions and sharing feedback about the current version and not making claims about the balance of weaponry based on how the game played a year and a half ago.

well my point is : ammo should be very limited. guns should be very powerful but useless 90% of time because of lack of ammo

 

[Darklegend222]

Agreed, it's not impossible to get gpu bound in 7dtd. However many players will run at 1440p and 1080p to get higher refresh rates over resolution and it's those common resolutions that are more likely to be cpu bound. 

I've tested the

3090(cpu bound at 4k)

1080ti sli (cpu bound at 4k)

Single 1080ti (cpu bound at 1440p)

1080 (cpu bound at 1440p)

980ti (cpu bound at 1080p)

R9 295x2 (been a while can't recall) 

1060 (been a while can't recall) 

750ti (been a while can't recall)

So while some older cards could benifit from dlss, they're to old to support the feature. Modern cards that do would need to be running at 4k to have a chance at any performance benifit and sometimes even then it will still be cpu bound at full Res. I've seen a couple cases of the 3080 reported similary as the 3090 which makes sence since they're not far off each other in terms of performance.

I haven't tested lower in the 3000 stack or anything in the 2000 series, so I can't say for certain. But it's my opinion the cases where dlss would benifit people would be in the minority. I think some people would turn it on and play with slightly worst image quality, when it would be unesseseary in cpu scenarios. 

Probably answered in an earlier page, so indulge someone inferior..

May i ask what cpu you tested this on? I'm currently using an i9-10850k processor and am curious if it would be limiting at 1440p? I've got a 6700xt soon to be put in the rig so i assume I'll be cpu bound.. but by how much is my question?

 

[BFT2020]

well my point is : ammo should be very limited. guns should be very powerful but useless 90% of time because of lack of ammo

There are mods out there that do limit ammo availability.  I am playing one right now were I am at Day 50 and I don't have a ton of ammo saved up (even though I only used arrows for my first 4 horde nights).

A simple XML edit will also limit ammo if you are looking to go that route.

 

[Matt115]

There are mods out there that do limit ammo availability.  I am playing one right now were I am at Day 50 and I don't have a ton of ammo saved up (even though I only used arrows for my first 4 horde nights).

A simple XML edit will also limit ammo if you are looking to go that route.

yeah , well i have very specific vision for 7dtd i think more people prefere other way . you know i will make in simplefication - more people  prefer setting of fallout 4 that stalker 

 

[Ramethzer0]

yeah , well i have very specific vision for 7dtd i think more people prefere other way . you know i will make in simplefication - more people  prefer setting of fallout 4 that stalker 

That is a very specific concept within the Survival-Horror genre that vanilla 7 Days to Die flies away from when you consider the Tower Defense aspect of the game.  But, you CAN do a lot of things to trim your game to clip it towards scarcity.     I'd also split hairs with you about scarcity in games like Fallout 4.   I've never felt threatened for gear in F4, like.. ever.

 

[Matt115]

That is a very specific concept within the Survival-Horror genre that vanilla 7 Days to Die flies away from when you consider the Tower Defense aspect of the game.  But, you CAN do a lot of things to trim your game to clip it towards scarcity.     I'd also split hairs with you about scarcity in games like Fallout 4.   I've never felt threatened for gear in F4, like.. ever.

well i mean something else :  fallout is post apo but in crazy sometimes funny way. stalker or metro is more nihilist and dark style . whispers in a11 give my vibs that 7dts is going into specific depressing setting but when i saw a new models of guns it's going in mad max style instead and this shame. well tower defense it doesnt' mean it must be colorfull or in mad max style. i still remember when i get to jantar in stalker clear sky and zombies attacked a scientist bunkers rest of defence died and i was sitting somewhere praying for ammo

 

[Naz]

Probably answered in an earlier page, so indulge someone inferior..

May i ask what cpu you tested this on? I'm currently using an i9-10850k processor and am curious if it would be limiting at 1440p? I've got a 6700xt soon to be put in the rig so i assume I'll be cpu bound.. but by how much is my question?

I've tested the ryzen 3950x, i7 6700k, i5 4670k and am now testing the ryzen 5950x

The 3090 tests were done on the 3950x, which is a touch slower than your cpu (In 7dtd) I haven't personally tested the i7 10850k or the 6700xt, so I can only estimate. However I think your cpu should be able to keep a 6700xt fed at 1440p, I wouldn't imagine it would run at lower than 80-90% gpu usage. 

But that's just my guess based on benchmarks on those components, when you throw it in there let us know how you got on

 

[meganoth]

well i mean something else :  fallout is post apo but in crazy sometimes funny way. stalker or metro is more nihilist and dark style . whispers in a11 give my vibs that 7dts is going into specific depressing setting but when i saw a new models of guns it's going in mad max style instead and this shame. well tower defense it doesnt' mean it must be colorfull or in mad max style. i still remember when i get to jantar in stalker clear sky and zombies attacked a scientist bunkers rest of defence died and i was sitting somewhere praying for ammo

We got a lot of signals and information from TFP that story, setting, style are already written out by madmole and that that is also already finished. This is definitely not among the few things we players can influence in any way.

 

[samljer]

I've tested the ryzen 3950x, i7 6700k, i5 4670k and am now testing the ryzen 5950x

The 3090 tests were done on the 3950x, which is a touch slower than your cpu (In 7dtd) I haven't personally tested the i7 10850k or the 6700xt, so I can only estimate. However I think your cpu should be able to keep a 6700xt fed at 1440p, I wouldn't imagine it would run at lower than 80-90% gpu usage. 

But that's just my guess based on benchmarks on those components, when you throw it in there let us know how you got on

I Have an i7-6700K@Stock (summer and all) and a GTX1080 w 32GB ram.

Monitor is a 1440p Ultrawide with 144hz refresh. specifically this one

LG 34GK950F-B 34" 21:9 Ultragear WQHD Nano IPS Curved Gaming Monitor

My frame rates are 90-110 out and about, while shooting, etc.

40-50 horde night (still above the freesync 2 minimum so still buttery smooth)

Basically not at all limiting if you turn a few settings to Medium...

specifically shadows. turning that up 1 notch tanks the FPS by half in each category.

 

[Naz]

I Have an i7-6700K@Stock (summer and all) and a GTX1080 w 32GB ram.

Monitor is a 1440p Ultrawide with 144hz refresh. specifically this one

LG 34GK950F-B 34" 21:9 Ultragear WQHD Nano IPS Curved Gaming Monitor

My frame rates are 90-110 out and about, while shooting, etc.

40-50 horde night (still above the freesync 2 minimum so still buttery smooth)

Basically not at all limiting if you turn a few settings to Medium...

specifically shadows. turning that up 1 notch tanks the FPS by half in each category.

Yes settings matter when talking about performance. I usually test 2 sets of settings, everything cranked and one with lower settings in key areas. Reflections will tank performance the most , quality, reflective shadows and screen space reflections can severally impact your performance. shadows is next but not as bad, then options like tree quality is an odd one as it seems to control how close high quality block models start rendering, set it to low and you'll see trash piles popping in everywhere  but it can help to turn it down to medium or high.

But yes the discussion was about being GPU limited not fps limited, the distinction being if you're gpu limited it means there is a bottleneck somewhere in your system and you're not getting the gpus full performance. This doesn't mean it will be a bad experience, it could still give perfectly playable framerates with settings your happy with, if that's the case then you can just enjoy the game and not worry about it. However if you're not satisfied with your systems current performance, step 1 is to find which component is the weakest link and if you already have a powerful gpu it's usually the cpu.

 

[Roland]

well my point is : ammo should be very limited. guns should be very powerful but useless 90% of time because of lack of ammo

The game works perfectly for that IF you role play it and not let knowledge of the inner workings cause you to meta play for efficiency. 
 

if you were a survivor and found a pipe machine gun you’d carry it around with you. If you found ammo that worked with it you would load it and use it. 
 

You would not toss the gun and save the ammo because you knew for a certainty that in about a week or two your gamestage would rise to the point that you’d be guaranteed to find an AK-47.

You say you want ammo to be scarce. If that’s so then use what you get when you get it and don’t horde it for the future guns your game knowledge tells you is coming. 
 

Primitive ammo to go with the primitive guns would only guarantee people stockpiling the good ammo. Because the new guns utilize the same ammo, you will use it up and have more scarcity. 

 

[Ramethzer0]

well i mean something else :  fallout is post apo but in crazy sometimes funny way. stalker or metro is more nihilist and dark style . whispers in a11 give my vibs that 7dts is going into specific depressing setting but when i saw a new models of guns it's going in mad max style instead and this shame. well tower defense it doesnt' mean it must be colorfull or in mad max style. i still remember when i get to jantar in stalker clear sky and zombies attacked a scientist bunkers rest of defence died and i was sitting somewhere praying for ammo

I'm not sure I'm parsing what you're getting at, other than your disappointment that this game isn't going the route you had specifically designed in your own headspace.

 

[Matt115]

We got a lot of signals and information from TFP that story, setting, style are already written out by madmole and that that is also already finished. This is definitely not among the few things we players can influence in any way.

yeah and not-  earlier versions very much darker and horror stuff like whispers. well it is too late to change setting but there that is not reason why i can't complain about it.  for example : i like idea of  rotting corpses , they cutted , there is no chance to bring it back but i can say it was good idea and it is shame that was cutted. 

 

[KhaineGB]

The game works perfectly for that IF you role play it and not let knowledge of the inner workings cause you to meta play for efficiency. 
 

if you were a survivor and found a pipe machine gun you’d carry it around with you. If you found ammo that worked with it you would load it and use it. 
 

You would not toss the gun and save the ammo because you knew for a certainty that in about a week or two your gamestage would rise to the point that you’d be guaranteed to find an AK-47.

You say you want ammo to be scarce. If that’s so then use what you get when you get it and don’t horde it for the future guns your game knowledge tells you is coming. 
 

Primitive ammo to go with the primitive guns would only guarantee people stockpiling the good ammo. Because the new guns utilize the same ammo, you will use it up and have more scarcity. 

To sort-of add to this, and yes i'm afraid it's mod related...

I added pipe weapons to DF around A17/A18 and quite a few people appreciated the ability to actually USE ammo they found (only a pistol and hunting rifle type, but folks liked it).

So I think Roland is right and this will be well received in A20. I'm personally looking forward to getting rid of my crappy models.

 

[Matt115]

I'm not sure I'm parsing what you're getting at, other than your disappointment that this game isn't going the route you had specifically designed in your own headspace.

Well  some previouse alphas when were molt for casting it was much darker. so i was thinking that they want to make it something like terminator but change robots into zombies