PC A19 Loot Progression

[Solomon]

Using parts for repair would be extremely annoying.

I would have to carry 3 or 4 different types of parts to repair my equipment in the field. During the horde I use 3 different types of firearms. At least 2 of them I have to repair several times during the horde.

Okay how about the following?

We rework the repair kit into a pseudo-container. You can use if from the inventory and it opens up a menu where you can put in weapon parts to fill it. Each repair with it consumes some items from it, fixing your issue of not being able to carry that much mats while also still making players repair with parts and raw materials.

 

[RipClaw]

Okay how about the following?

We rework the repair kit into a pseudo-container. You can use if from the inventory and it opens up a menu where you can put in weapon parts to fill it. Each repair with it consumes some items from it, fixing your issue of not being able to carry that much mats while also still making players repair with parts and raw materials.

This would require additional coding because there, es far as I know, there is no such thing as pseudo-container in the game yet.

 

[Solomon]

This would require additional coding because there, es far as I know, there is no such thing as pseudo-container in the game yet.

Hmm, yeah thats true. How about a workaround where the repair kit has durability what you repair with any parts you have?

Not sure if thats one too is possible within the current code, but making crafting recipes what replace consume the repair kit itself and some parts could work.

 

[Rince]

I like the progression system of A19. The more I play, the more I like it.

Surely, needs some tweaks, like making the containers in some POI like the shotgun messiah factory or the weapon safes having a bigger chance to have a gun, instead of some primitive bow.

And I think that they already working in that.

Regarding the repair kits, I also like how they are now. I remember when they were much harder to craft, that was a big hassle. Having to have indivitual repair kits for each kind of weapon sounds super annoying.

 

[Raveman1000]

Because once you get a Q6 gun the parts just collect dust.   Needing parts for repairs makes guns a little harder to maintain early game... and gives you a reason to keep parts mid to late game instead of selling them all to a trader.

Needing parts to repair stuff would be an unnecessary hassle in my opinion. I really like the convenience of the repair kit. Having to go out with parts for your tools, weapons and armors would clutter an already limited inventory space. I know that repairing everything before getting out would be an option, but in a lot of situation you need to repair on the go.

While I agree that having stuff to do with parts late game would be nice, I don't think it should done by removing the repair kits.

 

[Kalen]

Needing parts to repair stuff would be an unnecessary hassle in my opinion. I really like the convenience of the repair kit. Having to go out with parts for your tools, weapons and armors would clutter an already limited inventory space. I know that repairing everything before getting out would be an option, but in a lot of situation you need to repair on the go.

While I agree that having stuff to do with parts late game would be nice, I don't think it should done by removing the repair kits.

Repairing anything at all can be considered an unnecessary hassle.   The question is what makes balanced game play?   Right now, I feel like maintaining gear is way too easy... there are no difficult choices to make.  Repair kits are, in my experience, very easy to find early game and very easy to make late game.   Personally, I end up with stacks of more of them than I'd ever need.    

In my current game, by day 50 I had mostly all Q6 gear making almost all the gear I found since irrelevant.   

 

[Raveman1000]

The way it works right now is not good game design. People purposefully delay opening chests and shipping crates because they know if they open them at like level 20 or under they're only going to get a stone axe and a blunderbuss.

Its the biggest complaint that most people have with A19. Every time I watch someone on youtube try A19 they always comment on how every loot chest just contains stone tier tools/weapons.

Its not complicated at all to change this. Its just a change in loot chance percentages with different rates depending on the type of container. And while they are at it, if they could make certain container types like weapons bags and guns safes spawn less often but make them contain a higher chance of better loot, that would be even better.

I want above stone tier weapons/tools to still be rare in the early game and limited in their usability by making them expensive to maintain.

I believe that the talked about change for A20 would fix the current issue without all the changes you suggest. If I understand correctly, they will implement an increase in game stage for POI based on tier. For example (made up numbers):

Tier 1: +0 game stage

Tier 2: +5 game stage

Tier 3: +15 game stage

Tier 4: +30 game stage

Tier 5: +50 game stage

That game stage increase would apply to loot and zombie spawns, meaning that you could find a gun day one if you go into a high tier poi. Of course it will be harder to grab the loot than it is now, but you get the risk vs reward effet.

Those numbers could be floored, maxed or tweaked with testing, but I believe that the spirit of this change would satisfy most players.

Repairing anything at all can be considered an unnecessary hassle.   The question is what makes balanced game play?   Right now, I feel like maintaining gear is way too easy... there are no difficult choices to make.  Repair kits are, in my experience, very easy to find early game and very easy to make late game.   Personally, I end up with stacks of more of them than I'd ever need.    

In my current game, by day 50 I had mostly all Q6 gear making almost all the gear I found since irrelevant.   

Maybe they could make the highest tier weapons require parts but the lowest tier ones keep as is. For example the woodend club requires wood, the baseball bat the repair kit and the steel club some steel parts. So for each weapon line you would have the entry level weapon requiring basic ressources or repair kits, but the high end ones would require parts.

I find that having to invest parts early game both in the crafting of entry level weapons and the maintenance of it to be too punishing.

 

[Roland]

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

 

[Kalen]

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

Are you still doing your no repair play through?   What did you think of it?

 

[Raveman1000]

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

If they would remove repair kits I like this suggestion the most. It keeps everything relevant no matter the game stage and prevent a lucky find from making the game too easy. I like that it makes the perk even more relevant as you would need to rely on crafted gear until you find another Q6 one.

They just need to tune the durability so that the weapons last at least one horde night .

 

[Roland]

Are you still doing your no repair play through?   What did you think of it?

It’s no longer a single no repair play through. It is now my voluntary way of playing much like dead is dead. I give myself a single repair because it is a bit annoying at the current durability levels. I’d give myself two repairs but who can track and remember all that?

 

[Roland]

If they would remove repair kits I like this suggestion the most. It keeps everything relevant no matter the game stage and prevent a lucky find from making the game too easy. I like that it makes the perk even more relevant as you would need to rely on crafted gear until you find another Q6 one.

They just need to tune the durability so that the weapons last at least one horde night .

What is interesting is that by going one step further than just removing repair kits and not even repairing T0 items that don't require a repair kit, all of a sudden those containers with extra T0 items aren't so useless. It's nice to scrap my old and replace with a found one with more durability and same or better quality. Managing mod slots gets old but if durability was extended more then it wouldn't be quite so often.

YMMV, but I find that playing no-repair is worth the inconvenience of re-tooling your mods.

 

[Maxley]

Needing parts to repair stuff would be an unnecessary hassle in my opinion. I really like the convenience of the repair kit. Having to go out with parts for your tools, weapons and armors would clutter an already limited inventory space. I know that repairing everything before getting out would be an option, but in a lot of situation you need to repair on the go.

While I agree that having stuff to do with parts late game would be nice, I don't think it should done by removing the repair kits.

I can agree that using parts to repair would be a hassle now that I think about it more. So instead I think tools/weapons should just cost more repair kits to fully repair. This would make getting a tier 1 weapon like a pistol early game not OP as you might need up to 5 repair kits to repair it whereas blunderbusses just take 1 metal pipe.

I believe that the talked about change for A20 would fix the current issue without all the changes you suggest. If I understand correctly, they will implement an increase in game stage for POI based on tier. For example (made up numbers):

Tier 1: +0 game stage

Tier 2: +5 game stage

Tier 3: +15 game stage

Tier 4: +30 game stage

Tier 5: +50 game stage

That game stage increase would apply to loot and zombie spawns, meaning that you could find a gun day one if you go into a high tier poi. Of course it will be harder to grab the loot than it is now, but you get the risk vs reward effet.

Those numbers could be floored, maxed or tweaked with testing, but I believe that the spirit of this change would satisfy most players.

I think this would be a good idea. I hope they implement this.

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game.

I agree the most with this idea. I suggested it to Madmole before and he considered it before striking it down with great emotional vigor. I think the Fun Pimps would go with this direction except for the fact that probably 30% or more of the player base would cry out in anguish.

The permanent breakage of items is one of the main features that makes Zelda Breath of the Wild extremely iconic. If they didn't have this feature, they game would be seriously less fun. Having to think on my feet and use whatever weapons were at my disposal forced me to learn different styles of combat.

I hope they reconsider this. However I think there should still be repairing, but a weapon can be repaired only so many times, like 3 or 4 times for example. In this case they should keep the current durability stats as is.

 

[Roland]

I suggested it to Madmole before and he considered it before striking it down with great emotional vigor.

That's because ALL of this stuff having to do with entropy in the game has been brought up over and over again for years. We just had this same exact thread a month or two ago. We just rehash the same things again and again.

Not as many times as child zombies tho...

 

[Maxley]

That's because ALL of this stuff having to do with entropy in the game has been brought up over and over again for years. We just had this same exact thread a month or two ago. We just rehash the same things again and again.

Not as many times as child zombies tho...

Which is why i avoided talking about it and instead propose a change loot rates for weapons tools and ammunition depending on container type and poi difficulty. And also just making repairing things more expensive.

Indeed child zombies which in turn are closely rivaled by the all too common Arizonan lake piranha and the zombie alligator

 

[FranticDan]

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

If they go down this path, I would hope we get more parts for scrapping a Q6 item, than we do when we scrap a Q2 item.
Would also kinda suck looting a Q6 item and it's already down half it's durability.

 

[Roland]

(They won’t go down this road)

For mass market appeal, snowball progression is fun while managing entropy is not. 

 

[Kalen]

That's because ALL of this stuff having to do with entropy in the game has been brought up over and over again for years. We just had this same exact thread a month or two ago. We just rehash the same things again and again.

Well of course it keeps coming up again.... we all LBD, don't we?

 

[Solomon]

(They won’t go down this road)

For mass market appeal, snowball progression is fun while managing entropy is not. 

Im not really fond of removing repair altogether but i can see how it could balance a lot of things.

I have 2 suggestions what would fit the game and would be balanced:

First repair by hand is only possible with repair packs but repair packs are now rare and expensive items.(stone tools excluded) Seriously we dont need them raining down on us. Change the recipe to be fitting the desired economy like:

• 10 Forged Iron, 20 Oil, 10 Ductape, 50 Mechanical and Electrical Parts, Claw Hammer, Wrench
  
• Duke cost up to 8000 per piece
  

This would make making them an expensive choice to make for early and midgame players and a moderately high one for endgame folks. After this setting the droprate to 1 with 2% chance would make sure that its rare to actually find one.

The second one is that repair without kit is only possible at a workbench. Stone tools excluded but everything the game has now costs their specific parts to be repaired with either forged iron or forged steel. Every tier like in crafting increases the base costs of reparing.

For example T4 M60:

• 40 Machine gun parts (10 at T1 and +10/tier) + 8 Forged Steel (2 at T1 and +2/tier)
  

This would make sure that most players cant stockpile up weapon parts too because they are consumed for repairs and due to being only avaible at a workbench the player can only really repair in their homebases.

 

[Rince]

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

I can see myself playing the game only with pipe weapons. And bare fists.

And dying a lot. Like in previous alphas. (Anyone remembers the movie The Gamers: Dorkness Rising? Because I'm the bard!)